Undecided.....Lighting question.

jeffreaux2

This is the location for a December wedding I have booked.



The couple and wedding party will occupy the gazeebo above. The guests will be seated under the covered outdoor area in the following photo.



And this is why I am undecided on lighting....



The wedding will be well after dark.

The ceiling fan and it's four light sockets are all the light available inside the gazeebo. The bulbs are the ones with the minature sockets and are shaped like candle flames. My guess is that they "might" be 25(?) watts each. Strong emphasis on "might". I havent looked to see whether I can locate and purchase higher wattage bulbs with that base to replace these for the ceremony.:dunno


On one hand I hesitate to use flash as it stands the chance to intrude on the ambience of the setting. On the other hand, the existing light might make it tough to stop action for sharpness unless I step up to ISO3200(which Id rather avoid).:rolleyes

I absolutely WILL NOT shoot from stand mounted flashes outside the gazeebo. Doing this would throw awful looking shadows from the supports and railings all over my subjects. May as well use a point and shoot in that case...to ...you know....get that FULLY FLASH BLASTED effect.:rofl

I am considering suspending a single 580EX(upside down or either bounced toward the ceiling) from the ceiling (theres plenty of "stuff" to clamp one to, and fire it via "radio popper"....as it would be out of sight of my STE2 and too iffy on reliability to trust for a guaranteed fire at a wedding. A bare bulb flash would be better, but Id have to use a diffuser to mimic that effect. :photo

So....Im looking for input, suggestions, opinions, ideas....:thumb

Though I must say I am leaning VERY heavily toward shooting at high ISO without flash and embrace the grain and ambience....in the spirit of capturing things "true to the event" as it were.

ChatKat

Softbox
One of the great techniques that we learned from Shay at his wedding bootcamp a couple years ago was using two flashes (Sunpak 622's but it also works with 580ex flash) on light stands with small softboxes (I just got two photoflex with speedrings and stand mounts for $65 each) set up on low power and facing each other. Works like a charm for things like this. The cross of light eliminates shadows. Possible to use three or four for surround too.

jeffreaux2

ChatKat wrote:

One of the great techniques that we learned from Shay at his wedding bootcamp a couple years ago was using two flashes (Sunpak 622's but it also works with 580ex flash) on light stands with small softboxes (I just got two photoflex with speedrings and stand mounts for $65 each) set up on low power and facing each other. Works like a charm for things like this. The cross of light eliminates shadows. Possible to use three or four for surround too.

I thought about something similar....

Bungee cording a pair of monopod mounted flashes on the backside of the two center supprts out of sight of the camera, but I was afraid of actually catching the "flash" from the flash in the photos. I may want to circle around behind the gazeebo and shoot some from that perspective as well. I really dont want to light the outside of the gazeebo....but rather the interior....to keep it looking as natural as possible.

Where would you locate the stands?

I wouldn't be offended if you right-click-save one of these and draw your suggested set up in with photoshop ya know....

ChatKat

Assuming the Bride and Groom are at the end of the Gazebo, you could totally bounce - the effect would work well. You can use the STE-2. and a couple of bungees. Do you have the 580ex2? You can point straight up.

I have two Sunpak 622's that I would turn to 1/4 power and then put them up high into the top of the Gazebo with the small softboxes on light stands (with the bride's permission) facing each other and higher up to create additional light. You can do the same with the Canon Speedlights. I use the Photoflex softboxes for flashes. They were $65. each and have everything you need to use with a flash on a small lightstand. I would put those up next to the 2nd set of uprights from the entry. It would just give boost to the ambient. You could use on camera for fill and you do well with gels to avoid any shadow. Do you have three speed lights?

jeffreaux2

I have two speedlights....a 580EX and a 580EXII, but that isnt an issue as I have already decided that if I DO put two in the gazeebo I will almost certainly need a third to grab the processional/recessional. I am prepared to purchase another as well as a pair of radio popper recievers and a transmitter if need be.

I dont think I should rely on the STE2. It requires line of sight, and the gazeebo will contain the minister, bride, groom(at near center....under the fan) as well as 5 groomsmen and 5 bridesmaids plus a flower girl or two and probably a ring bearer. These folks will be arranged left and right of the B&G. My fear is that if I were able to manage line of sight with the gazeebo empty, one of the wedding party may block me and prevent the flash from firing. THAT would be a failure. So I am prepared for the purchase of radio poppers if I HAVE to. I can either bungee cord a pair of monopods to the posts to mount the lights on, or weld a 1/4" stud to a "c"-clamp to hang them from the rafters.

ChatKat

That would work
That's true about the line of sight. You could also put one or two Speedlights together but angle the heads of them up above on the fan to do some bounce. That white roof works well for you - just enough light to leave the mood. If you put two of them up there then you could put the IR of them in opposing directions and shoot that way. Or you could put the IR down toward the B&G and then angle the head only up for bounce. You have a lot of options. I use Pocket Wizards.

sweet caroline

So, is it possible for you to get out there at night to test your lighting? I love the idea of lights mounted up near the ceiling and bounced and would be interested to see how even that kind of lighting might be. I have limited lighting experience, so I'm very interested to see what you end up doing!

Caroline

divamum

Take (dismiss!) with large grain of salt, since I'm coming at this more from the pov of somebody who spends time onstage rather than a bride or wedding photog but...

Won't flashes inside the gazebo be very distracting both to participants and onlookers? My first instinct would be to go for the "real" atmosphere and just shoot natural light (however limited) and perhaps add some flashed, staged shots afterwards if you/they wanted something really clear and well-lit for posterity but, as I say... that's me thinking outside the lens rather than through it

Are you sure there will be NO other lighting, ie no torches or outside lights at all? Or is there the possibility of requesting some kind of added lanterns around and/or inside the gazebo - could be very atmospheric and beautiful!

Like Caroline, I'll be interested to see what you come up with, which I have no doubt will transcend the limitations of anything as mundane as "no light to work with"........

jeffreaux2

ChatKat wrote:

That's true about the line of sight. You could also put one or two Speedlights together but angle the heads of them up above on the fan to do some bounce. That white roof works well for you - just enough light to leave the mood. If you put two of them up there then you could put the IR of them in opposing directions and shoot that way. Or you could put the IR down toward the B&G and then angle the head only up for bounce. You have a lot of options. I use Pocket Wizards.

One of my ideas is to hang a single 580 upside down with a gary fong lightsphere on it...and mimic a bare bulb fixture.

Either way, if I set it up for the STE2....and then get no flash during the ceremony it would be very frustrating....after going through the trouble of setting it up. I think a radio trigger is the answer.

jeffreaux2

sweet caroline wrote:

So, is it possible for you to get out there at night to test your lighting? I love the idea of lights mounted up near the ceiling and bounced and would be interested to see how even that kind of lighting might be. I have limited lighting experience, so I'm very interested to see what you end up doing!

Caroline

Im actually not very interested in even lighting. If I do it, Id like it to appear as if its coming from a permenant fixture inside the structure. There was a shot on "strobist" blog of a tiki hut lit that way that looked pretty good.

At least I have til December to ponder this.

ChatKat

Dark
I would also consider shooting it with your widest lens or consider renting one of these: 24 or 35 1.4; 50 1.2, 85 1.2 or 135 2.0. I just came from my 7/11 wedding site and I think I am going to shoot the whole reception with the 16-35 and 50 1.2 and only ambient. The wedding will be a few hours before sunset and I will use off camera flash with softboxes to light it.

rwells

Hey Jeff,

Couple of ideas. I have not tried this personally, but have seen photos with a similar setup.

There's obviously electricity in the gazebo, but I can't tell if there's an outlet available for you there, or if you can run an extension cord inconspicuously to the gazebo.

If you can get power, you could:

1) Hang Christmas lights under the ceiling, clamping them up with Home Depot spring clamps. This lighting produced a unique look that matched up well with a wedding venue.

Of course, I can't find a suitable photo when I need one, but this photo will give you an idea of the ambience that could be obtained with the above lighting.



2) Get two or three of the inexpensive "clamp-on" lights, clamp them onto the rafters and bouncing the light from the ceiling.

Quick search revealed this photo using ambient, and another. The amount could be controlled by either the number of lights and/or the bulp wattage.

That concrete looks pretty white on the gazebo floor, so you should get some light fill bounce from it also.

I seem to recall that your shooting a 50D now, and I'm guessing that you have one or two custom slots available on your mode dial. Simply setup your WB for the gazebo lighting on one preset, then for your normal flash setup on another.


If you can't get power out there and need to go with a speedlight, I'd clamp one on the ceiling fan pole w/SuperClamp and bounce it off the ceiling, probably with your LightSphere attached. You wouldn't "need" to spend the money on RadioPoppers for this, as cheaper simple triggers would do the job with your speedlight on manual due to the light to subject distance being constant. Cyber Sync's are affordable. I do use PW's myself when RF is needed.

(Of course, this "would" be a great excuse to "have to" buy some RadioPoppers!!!)

Hope that helps...

Scott_Quier

As I see it, you really only have two options:

1. Appropriatly gelled flashes (with or without the GF LS) bounced off the ceiling of the structure
2. I think the constant lighting suggested by Randy would work nicely. You might be able to get a couple of stops of light out of that without really altering the atmosphere of the event.

The cross-lighting taught by Shay (I was also in one of his workshops) might work, but in those close quarters, you have a couple of issues to content with, most having to do with the Inverse-Square Law:

1. You will have aggressive light fall-off
2. Danger of the gown blowing while not getting facial features properly lit (see point 1)
3. Shadows - No matter how you set them up, you will get very un-cool shadows somewhere. Someone's head is going to shadow someone else's face - a really not cool situation.

I know this 'cause I have used this lighting strategy a number of times and found it not quite satisfactory. I've since evolved (?) to a three light setup ... the two as outlined plus a bracket mounted flash to provide fill/supplemental light.

CaroleHayes

divamum wrote:

Take (dismiss!) with large grain of salt, since I'm coming at this more from the pov of somebody who spends time onstage rather than a bride or wedding photog but...

Won't flashes inside the gazebo be very distracting both to participants and onlookers? My first instinct would be to go for the "real" atmosphere and just shoot natural light (however limited) and perhaps add some flashed, staged shots afterwards if you/they wanted something really clear and well-lit for posterity but, as I say... that's me thinking outside the lens rather than through it

Are you sure there will be NO other lighting, ie no torches or outside lights at all? Or is there the possibility of requesting some kind of added lanterns around and/or inside the gazebo - could be very atmospheric and beautiful!

Like Caroline, I'll be interested to see what you come up with, which I have no doubt will transcend the limitations of anything as mundane as "no light to work with"........

I think this sounds like good advice, personally.... If I were getting married at night, with candle/torch light, I would want the pictures to show that, and would be more concerned with the photos reflecting the mood of the wedding, than with them being perfectly well-lit and exposed. (And I would probably be pretty upset if there were lots of flashes going off, so I would probably check with the bride before you decide what to do....)

sweet caroline

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Im actually not very interested in even lighting. If I do it, Id like it to appear as if its coming from a permenant fixture inside the structure. There was a shot on "strobist" blog of a tiki hut lit that way that looked pretty good.

At least I have til December to ponder this.

I guess really what I meant by "even" lighting was lighting without obvious flash shadows, thus looking like it's all lit with the existing light fixtures. Just enough flash to give the existing light a boost so you won't have to go so high ISO or slow shutter.

I think if people can't see the flash head from outside the gazebo, it won't be distracting. But that's another reason why a test shoot with a model and at least one onlooker would be so useful.

Caroline

ChatKat

Scott_Quier wrote:

.
The cross-lighting taught by Shay (I was also in one of his workshops) might work, but in those close quarters, you have a couple of issues to content with, most having to do with the Inverse-Square Law:

1. You will have aggressive light fall-off
2. Danger of the gown blowing while not getting facial features properly lit (see point 1)
3. Shadows - No matter how you set them up, you will get very un-cool shadows somewhere. Someone's head is going to shadow someone else's face - a really not cool situation.

I know this 'cause I have used this lighting strategy a number of times and found it not quite satisfactory. I've since evolved (?) to a three light setup ... the two as outlined plus a bracket mounted flash to provide fill/supplemental light.

This is true - I use a flash to control my remotes and set them all to fill. I use three with that technique as well.

When the lights are at low power, it actually doesn't modify the mood of the other lights - it's quite subtle.

Scott_Quier

CaroleHayes wrote:

I think this sounds like good advice, personally.... If I were getting married at night, with candle/torch light, I would want the pictures to show that, and would be more concerned with the photos reflecting the mood of the wedding, than with them being perfectly well-lit and exposed. (And I would probably be pretty upset if there were lots of flashes going off, so I would probably check with the bride before you decide what to do....)

with all this. One note, it's possible and easy to adjust the power of the lighting to supplement rather than over-power the ambient (candles, etc).

jeffreaux2

Thanks all.

I have decided to do this....

I am still waiting for the down payment. Once recieved, I will try to schedule her bridals (which are to be shot at that location) for late evening. If its possible, Ill get a feel for how much light the existing fixture provides....and hang a single 580 in the rafters to see how it looks.

Im not at all interested in changeing the "feel" of the existing light.....but think that a properly diffused and located single flash could very well simulate a single bare bulb fixture......and the inverse square law plus ETTL should help with that.

We will see.

Scott_Quier

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Thanks all.

I have decided to do this....

I am still waiting for the down payment. Once recieved, I will try to schedule her bridals (which are to be shot at that location) for late evening. If its possible, Ill get a feel for how much light the existing fixture provides....and hang a single 580 in the rafters to see how it looks.

Im not at all interested in changeing the "feel" of the existing light.....but think that a properly diffused and located single flash could very well simulate a single bare bulb fixture......and the inverse square law plus ETTL should help with that.

We will see.

Sounds like a plan!