diffusers/bouncers comparisons?

lilmomma

Forgive me, i'm sure there are a million threads like this already....

So I went all out and bought the Gary Fong lightspere about a week and a half ago and after second shooting a wedding with it and testing it in different scenarios I really don't think I'm impressed. Anyone else feel that way? So I think i'm going to sell it and buy something else.

What are the opinions on the different types? Lumiquest, omnibounce, demb...

what's your favorite and can you post a photo taken with one? The guy I shot the wedding with had something like the omnibounce diffuser (just the rectangle over the top) and I was thinking that might just be simple enough to do the trick.

what do you think?

Manfr3d

If you want softer light you probably want a larger light source .. like a 12x12" softbox or larger (with stand). The difference between similar sized diffusors is very small.

I have 4 diffusors, each for a different purpose:

1. Stofen omnibounce - small, I use it when I can bounce off walls in tight quarters
2. Lumiquest PocketBounce - folds flat, fires forward only, softer light than with direct flash
3. Gary fong type dome - large, fires in all directions, usefull only in tight quarters where light can bounce.
4. 24" x 24" softbox with stand and radio triggerd flashgun - largest setup but creates the softest light of all

ziggy53

I am always ready to recommend the DIY "scoop" which yields very nice light:

http://www.fototime.com/inv/908195739C4C0D3

Some examples:





Each should cost around $3USD and take less than 1/2 hour to produce. I made 3 for my use.

Qarik

curious.. what don't you like about the fong sphere? You are one the 1st I have ever heard that doesn't like it after trying it. I have one and I think it works quite well.

lilmomma

Manfr3d- thanks for the input. Might invest in a softbox soon, but i'm thinking more on camera. I do appreciate the listing of what you use in different scenarios. Maybe I'm expecting it to be "magical" in all settings and that is apparently not the case.

Ziggy-looks like it's worth a shot! sometimes with homemade ones they look pretty silly (I heard someone say a milkjug works!) but that one doesn't look to shabby! Something to try anyway...

Qarik- I'm not sure really, I can't put my finger on it. I'm at work right now but when I get home i'll upload two shots that I took last night of my little girl, one with the sphere and one with straight ceiling bounced flash and I really prefer the straight bounced flash, with the exception that the eyes aren't lit up. I don't know, maybe i'm being picky...I've also never tried any other types so for all I know it's 100 times better than the rest. I do know that when I did that wedding we were in that huge building with really high ceilings and it didn't seem to do a lot of good. It could have been that it wasn't the right choice for that setting.

Qarik

lilmomma wrote:

Manfr3d- thanks for the input. Might invest in a softbox soon, but i'm thinking more on camera. I do appreciate the listing of what you use in different scenarios. Maybe I'm expecting it to be "magical" in all settings and that is apparently not the case.

Ziggy-looks like it's worth a shot! sometimes with homemade ones they look pretty silly (I heard someone say a milkjug works!) but that one doesn't look to shabby! Something to try anyway...

Qarik- I'm not sure really, I can't put my finger on it. I'm at work right now but when I get home i'll upload two shots that I took last night of my little girl, one with the sphere and one with straight ceiling bounced flash and I really prefer the straight bounced flash, with the exception that the eyes aren't lit up. I don't know, maybe i'm being picky...I've also never tried any other types so for all I know it's 100 times better than the rest. I do know that when I did that wedding we were in that huge building with really high ceilings and it didn't seem to do a lot of good. It could have been that it wasn't the right choice for that setting.

fair enough..yes the fong diffuser can be a little less then desirable in venues with vary high ceilngs. A scoop maybe a better choice for that. Post those shots..I would like to see them.

lilmomma

test pics
all are sooc and not compositionally thought out, just for test purposes
(I am posting some cute ones over in people though )

Here are the ones from last night:

with diffuser


without



Today I tried something different and took the dome off the top and I think i like how that looks best (2nd shot)

with diffuser and dome


diffuser-no dome


no dome, bounce off the ceiling



to me with the diffuser and dome it seems like it looks too flashy..maybe i'm just nitpicking...

Miguel Delinquento

Demb works for me
I enjoy the Demb big Flip-it reflector and the diffuser. The diffuser is literally flexible and easily fits into most of my bags, unlike the tupperware alternatives. I use them together when I need to concentrate the light softly.

This was taken last Halloween at dusk:



Taken during a hike in early evening last September. I directed the light downward for use with a Pentax Limited 35mm macro lens, f 4.5 @ 1/30, ISO 200



Joe Demb is great about answering questions and providing guidance.

M

Qarik

oh my..the dome should almost never be on! The dome is for very high or black ceilings. With the dome on you get hardly any bounce from the ceiling. I agree with you the dome off is the best of the bunch and about what I expected.

paddler4

I sympathize--I have also recently started trying to gain some mastery over flash work, and it is not easy.

I have three:

1. Stofen omnibounce
2. Lumiquest
3. Demb flip-it.

I have not found that #2 does very much. #1 is a simple and effective approach to bounce flash when you have a good bounce surface, such as a regular room ceiling. The Demb is very flexible and can be used anywhere, without a bounce surface. I'm now using it for macro work. I suggest buying 1 and 3, because they are very cheap, and just experimenting with them. The Demb site has a bunch of ideas about how to use the reflector for different lighting effects.

lilmomma

thanks everyone for the advice and samples! I think I may stick with it after all and also try the DIY ziggy suggested

Qarik- I can't believe I didn't think to take the dome off sooner, duh! it's reasons like this that I enjoy this forum so much! thank you

Qarik

lilmomma wrote:

thanks everyone for the advice and samples! I think I may stick with it after all and also try the DIY ziggy suggested

Qarik- I can't believe I didn't think to take the dome off sooner, duh! it's reasons like this that I enjoy this forum so much! thank you

haha! the purpose of the dome is it reflects a good bit of light back into the bowl and so you you get more forward sideways back wards power in your flash when the ceiling aren't conducive to bounce. Do you have silver dome as well? That is even a stronger version

ziggy53

Qarik wrote:

haha! the purpose of the dome is it reflects a good bit of light back into the bowl and so you you get more forward sideways back wards power in your flash when the ceiling aren't conducive to bounce. Do you have silver dome as well? That is even a stronger version

There are even some owners who use a reflector behind the LS when it is pointed up with the bowl inserted.

jchin

As a portable (on-the-camera) diffused light source ... you can add me to the list of those who have bought the Lightsphere and DO NOT like it. The main reason ... it throws the light everywhere, including places where you don't want it, and thus runs down your batteries really quickly.

Before using the Lightsphere (the original version, not the current version with the velcro strap, which I am told hold better), I've been using the Omnibounce for over 10 years and loved it. I only wanted the Lightsphere because so many people rave about it and figured that many people cannot be wrong. Well ... I ended up NOT liking it. I prefer to control my light than waste it by lighting up an entire room, especially when my subject is only in front of my camera and not behind it.

As for using the Omnibounce, I find 2 "drawbacks" (if you want to call it that). The Omnibounce makes the light warmer, so it is a matter of taste. Secondly, I have to do a FC +2/3 because it absorbs some light as compared to an undiffused flash.

Now for the large bounce card (homemade or otherwise), they work great too. I've used that too. Sometimes in combination with a modified Omnibounce, sometimes bare flash. Homemade large bounce cards are cheap and they work. My only thing is, they don't look professional enough when I get hired to do a job, so for that reason alone, I've stayed away from using them during a paid shoot. Given that, I've also used my friends Demb Big Flip-It which is a big professionally sold bounce card. That is great, so I may buy one of those in future.

In the end, the diffuser that is almost permanently attached to my flash units are the Omnibounce. I find it compact and not an "attention grabbing" contraption.

keithinmelbourne

I've tried a few . . .
But I've stuck with the Demb Flip-it. It's easy to carry and very effective. I've made a lightsphere using a $1 plastic spray bottle (if you look around you can find the right shape), but I found that it sucks up too much light. I've also made the model suggested by Ziggy, but I found that it frightened the wedding guests! (Hmmm, maybe if I drew a face on it . . . )

jchin

keithinmelbourne wrote:

But I've stuck with the Demb Flip-it. It's easy to carry and very effective. I've made a lightsphere using a $1 plastic spray bottle (if you look around you can find the right shape), but I found that it sucks up too much light. I've also made the model suggested by Ziggy, but I found that it frightened the wedding guests! (Hmmm, maybe if I drew a face on it . . . )

Keith, I like the face idea!

ziggy53

The "scoop" that I recommend is fairly large, and for good reason. I have honestly never had anyone too anxious in front of one bevause of how "I" act using it. If anyone asks about it, and that has happened, I take just a few seconds to explain why I use it and I may show them a couple of the shots. The images usually sell the device and I have no further problem. It really is a very nice light.

I had one person joke about the scoop at an event (which I shot for a friend of mine even though I was not supposed to shoot it but she was not informed of the time and date) and I showed the fellow the results I was getting and his wife shut him up and I had no further comment from him. (The moral is to gain the confidence of the wife and the husband, even if obnoxious, will shut up. )

Kinkajou

while we're on the subject... i just got a diffuser kit that i am supposed to mount to my flash via velcro. it's my first flash and i'm a little particular about my stuff, so i'm not excited about the idea of permanently sticking velcro to the flash.

are there any other suggestions out there? the flash is a 430 speedlite and this is the diffuser kit:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/447097-REG/Sunpak_DFU01_DFU_01_Diffusion_Kit.html

i do like the light it produces; it's on the warm side.

ziggy53

Kinkajou wrote:

while we're on the subject... i just got a diffuser kit that i am supposed to mount to my flash via velcro. it's my first flash and i'm a little particular about my stuff, so i'm not excited about the idea of permanently sticking velcro to the flash.

are there any other suggestions out there? the flash is a 430 speedlite and this is the diffuser kit:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/447097-REG/Sunpak_DFU01_DFU_01_Diffusion_Kit.html

i do like the light it produces; it's on the warm side.

Contact the manufacturer directly for other recommendations regarding mounting options.

For a DIY solution you could create a "band" of some sort to strap around the flash head, held in place by friction, and then attach the velcro patches to the band instead. I'm not aware of any pre-made sources for such a device however.

jchin

Kinkajou wrote:

while we're on the subject... i just got a diffuser kit that i am supposed to mount to my flash via velcro. it's my first flash and i'm a little particular about my stuff, so i'm not excited about the idea of permanently sticking velcro to the flash.

are there any other suggestions out there? the flash is a 430 speedlite and this is the diffuser kit:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/447097-REG/Sunpak_DFU01_DFU_01_Diffusion_Kit.html

i do like the light it produces; it's on the warm side.

For what its worth ... to remove glue gum residue, spray a little WD40 onto a paper towel and wipe the residue, it comes right off.

Another option is to find gaffers tape that is wide enough, apply that to the flash, then put the velcro on top of that. Gaffers tape leaves no residual gum when removed. That may keep your gear in that pristine look and feel.

Tim Kamppinen

I personally don't like any on camera flash diffusers and avoid them if necessary. Everything, from scoops to dome diffusers, etc. will end up leaving harder shadows, particularly under the chin, than I prefer. Basically any direct light from a small source (and scoops/small softboxes/lightspheres definitely qualify as "small") is going to do this. As the OP found out, bouncing straight up is much softer but leaves dark eye sockets which arguably looks even worse. The solution? Bounce behind you, over your shoulder, to a spot further back on the ceiling, or off to one side, or off of a wall, etc. These techniques give you huge soft light sources, with no direct flash shadows, and because the light is coming to your subject from a lower angle the eyes will be filled as well. It looks great and much better than using a diffusion dome or other small modifier IMO. Of course there are some situations where you need something more direct (dark walls and black 30 ft ceiling, etc) but in most cases I find that full bounce is the best option.

Art Scott

Kinkajou wrote:

while we're on the subject... i just got a diffuser kit that i am supposed to mount to my flash via velcro. it's my first flash and i'm a little particular about my stuff, so i'm not excited about the idea of permanently sticking velcro to the flash.

are there any other suggestions out there? the flash is a 430 speedlite and this is the diffuser kit:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/447097-REG/Sunpak_DFU01_DFU_01_Diffusion_Kit.html

i do like the light it produces; it's on the warm side.

hERE is the one I use.....it is a rubber/velcro cinch strap by LUMIQUEST.....made to hold their modifiers on....works great.........I use it becuse I haveseveral different styles and brands of flash units I use my modifiers on........

Qarik

Tim, this can work well when in controlled semi-controlled environment where you can do test shots and such. It simply won't do at all in any kind of event setting where you have 5 sec to get "that shot". Imagine walking around in reception from room to room or simply changing angles grabbing shots. You will have to constantly modify the angle of the flash and reshoot again and maybe again. This 1st of all is distracting to guests if you have to take multiple shots..2ndly your "eye" is now 1/2 the time looking around for walls and such instead of looking for moments for shots. just no way.

In those situations you need a flash modifier so you can just concentrate on shooting.

Art Scott

Tim Kamppinen wrote:

I personally don't like any on camera flash diffusers and avoid them if necessary. Everything, from scoops to dome diffusers, etc. will end up leaving harder shadows, particularly under the chin, than I prefer. Basically any direct light from a small source (and scoops/small softboxes/lightspheres definitely qualify as "small") is going to do this. As the OP found out, bouncing straight up is much softer but leaves dark eye sockets which arguably looks even worse. The solution? Bounce behind you, over your shoulder, to a spot further back on the ceiling, or off to one side, or off of a wall, etc. These techniques give you huge soft light sources, with no direct flash shadows, and because the light is coming to your subject from a lower angle the eyes will be filled as well. It looks great and much better than using a diffusion dome or other small modifier IMO. Of course there are some situations where you need something more direct (dark walls and black 30 ft ceiling, etc) but in most cases I find that full bounce is the best option.

I find that 99% of the time when i have to go to a modifier there is no where else to bounce from....I will floor bounce around All Hallows.....but not a weddings....unless I want the GHOUL lighting..........so a softbox to soften and spread and I have not had a problem with dark under chin shadows....or shadows for that matter...............

Tim Kamppinen

Qarik wrote:

Tim, this can work well when in controlled semi-controlled environment where you can do test shots and such. It simply won't do at all in any kind of event setting where you have 5 sec to get "that shot". Imagine walking around in reception from room to room or simply changing angles grabbing shots. You will have to constantly modify the angle of the flash and reshoot again and maybe again. This 1st of all is distracting to guests if you have to take multiple shots..2ndly your "eye" is now 1/2 the time looking around for walls and such instead of looking for moments for shots. just no way.

In those situations you need a flash modifier so you can just concentrate on shooting.

I have to disagree about this not being suited for event photography. You don't have to be constantly changing the flash... put it on TTL and let the preflashes do the heavy lifting. It's pretty simple to just angle your flash off in one direction if you're bouncing off the ceiling behind you and just leave it there. You don't have to "constantly modify the angle"... just get a nice 45 degree overhead "safe" light pattern and stick with it. No need for great precision. Usually the ceiling is more or less the same height all over the room, and even if it's not the TTL will make up for the differences. The only time you really need to change the flash head is if you're changing orientation from portrait to landscape or if you want to get a specific look by directing the light from somewhere in particular. This would all be of course way too cumbersome in manual mode, but again I just use TTL for this on camera stuff. I think it's probably more distracting to guests to blind them with direct flash than it is to take a few shots bounced off the ceiling where they hardly notice the flash. Just put a short snoot (like 3 inches) on the flash and there will be no light coming out to blind people. It will be pure bounce.

I don't know, it worked for me when shooting I did shooting a prom (with 25 ft ceilings, no less!) which is an environment similar to a wedding reception. I didn't find myself adjusting the flash inordinately, and for the big things that happen at a reception (cake cutting, first dance, speeches, etc) you know ahead of time and would be able to get set up for it anyway.

photogreen

lilmomma wrote:

Forgive me, i'm sure there are a million threads like this already....

So I went all out and bought the Gary Fong lightspere about a week and a half ago and after second shooting a wedding with it and testing it in different scenarios I really don't think I'm impressed. Anyone else feel that way? So I think i'm going to sell it and buy something else.

What are the opinions on the different types? Lumiquest, omnibounce, demb...

what's your favorite and can you post a photo taken with one? The guy I shot the wedding with had something like the omnibounce diffuser (just the rectangle over the top) and I was thinking that might just be simple enough to do the trick.

what do you think?

Hi Melissa,
I have 14 diffusers at the moment...
I'm playing with them, testing them, ranking them... Will get more later...
You might want to read this review: best flash diffuser
I'm trying to understand all the details and aspects of the diffuser world. Tweaking the ranking system to reflect that.
Hope, those reviews and tests will help you chose a diffuser.

Kinkajou

Thanks art, ziggy, and jchin. Gaffer's tape had come to mind, but I think I'll also give the lumiquest strap a try - it's only $7

Thanks for the good ideas!

Art Scott

Kinkajou wrote:

Thanks art, ziggy, and jchin. Gaffer's tape had come to mind, but I think I'll also give the lumiquest strap a try - it's only $7

Thanks for the good ideas!

A roll of a good brand of Gaffers is only $20 (2"X150yrds....I think).....but I also keep a roll of skinny Gaffers ......technically known as SPIKE tape....used to make marks (usually X's) to show the Diva's:D:D:D where to stand.....it will be quite a bit cheaper but is only 3/8" wide........come in colors also not just blk or white.....I carry yellow.

It would be a good idea to always have a roll on hand......you never know when you might need to tape something in a hurry that just broke.

Qarik

Tim,

If you are angling the flash 45 degress behind you for example..then you are using the ceiling and the walls behind and as well as sides for the light. Now what if I am shooting somone with a side or rear wall very close behind me...vs shooting someone with no walls behind or next to me? That changes the lighting moderately to drastically. No amount of TTL is going to help if there is nothing to bounce off of.

imo you need some light going forward somehow to balance this out which is what most flash diffuser do.

I am not saying it isn't possible to do what yoiu are describing..I am saying if you want consistent, hassle free, no thought invloved, decent lighting in a wide variety of situations then some kind of diffuser is warranted.

Tim Kamppinen

Qarik wrote:

Tim,

If you are angling the flash 45 degress behind you for example..then you are using the ceiling and the walls behind and as well as sides for the light. Now what if I am shooting somone with a side or rear wall very close behind me...vs shooting someone with no walls behind or next to me? That changes the lighting moderately to drastically. No amount of TTL is going to help if there is nothing to bounce off of.

I am not saying it isn't possible to do what yoiu are describing..I am saying if you want consistent, hassle free, no thought invloved, decent lighting in a wide variety of situations then some kind of diffuser is warranted.

I should have noted that when I do this I typically zoom my flash out as far as possible so almost all the light is going straight to the ceiling, unless I deliberately want to bounce off a wall. I do understand what you're saying about using some amount of direct light being more reliable and faster. I just think the light looks so much better when it's fully bounced that I do it as much as I possibly can.