Wedding Photography So Much Different?
Scootersbabygirl
Registered Users Posts: 224 Major grins
I'm very curious about something - why is it that it seems like wedding photographers are much different than any other type of photographer?
I'll give an example: when I started doing photography I had tons of people who were willing to critique and advise me. They were there to answer my questions in a most happy way and were delighted to give me constructive criticism.
It almost seems like, however, wedding photographers are a different breed. I believed that all photographers were the same, simply trying to get the beauty of what they see with their eyes reflected in a photograph. But lately all I've been seeing is wedding photographers seemingly putting down beginning wedding photographers.
I see a lot of, "if you've never shot a wedding, don't do it!"
I live in a very, very rural area. There is only one "professional" photographer here (by professional I mean that he has a studio). This professional will work with no one new. He has his assistants and will not allow anyone else to be a second shooter.
Which means that, basically, I've been working, learning, and practicing on my own. I have been studying and getting better only thanks to the wonderful photographers who have been kind enough to take time out of their day to help me to learn.
I've been hired to photograph a wedding. The wedding is a month away and I've been doing everything I can to get myself ready for this wedding, as its my first. The bride knows that this is my first wedding session and has confidence in me thanks to the photos she's already seen. I am determined to do my best for this bride, and will do everything possible to make sure that she has the wedding photos she's always dreamed of.
Now that I've been really long winded, I guess what I wanted to ask is why so many wedding photographers seem to be very discouraging of new photographers? Everyone has to start somewhere, don't they?
I'll give an example: when I started doing photography I had tons of people who were willing to critique and advise me. They were there to answer my questions in a most happy way and were delighted to give me constructive criticism.
It almost seems like, however, wedding photographers are a different breed. I believed that all photographers were the same, simply trying to get the beauty of what they see with their eyes reflected in a photograph. But lately all I've been seeing is wedding photographers seemingly putting down beginning wedding photographers.
I see a lot of, "if you've never shot a wedding, don't do it!"
I live in a very, very rural area. There is only one "professional" photographer here (by professional I mean that he has a studio). This professional will work with no one new. He has his assistants and will not allow anyone else to be a second shooter.
Which means that, basically, I've been working, learning, and practicing on my own. I have been studying and getting better only thanks to the wonderful photographers who have been kind enough to take time out of their day to help me to learn.
I've been hired to photograph a wedding. The wedding is a month away and I've been doing everything I can to get myself ready for this wedding, as its my first. The bride knows that this is my first wedding session and has confidence in me thanks to the photos she's already seen. I am determined to do my best for this bride, and will do everything possible to make sure that she has the wedding photos she's always dreamed of.
Now that I've been really long winded, I guess what I wanted to ask is why so many wedding photographers seem to be very discouraging of new photographers? Everyone has to start somewhere, don't they?
0
Comments
Weddings don't stop. You will go from inside a dimly lighted church w/ no flash allowed to bright mid day sun - there maybe shade from a tree but the sun rays are popping thru giving you hot spots on the brides face.
So you have to get the 'kiss the bride' - down the isle way - outside church to waiting limo in about 2-4 minutes.
(This is just one example)
So... you have to adjust for everything.
You happen to drop you camera on the way out of the church.
(you took the neck strap off you neck because you need freedom for movement to get that a 'special' shot.)
Lens is crushed. What do you do?
do you have a second with you to help? do you have a backup body....
So wedding photogs just point out that Murphy can show up and there are no do-overs.
Just my 2 cents....
good luck - practice as much as you can.
If you have some married friends - ask them to model for you.
Your local Photog is afraid of competition ... that sucks.
keep going ....
Later,
_Mark
Can you provide the forum with a list of your equipment, and a web site?
As to the don't do it......that's a good general statement. Weddings are very special, there are no do overs. You need the experience to address the varied lighting you will encounter, as well as the fast pace. It take awhile to learn how to pose the couple as well as the guests.
You also need backup equipment. pros normally have darn near two of everything and may even have 3 camera bodies.
Then you need good post processing skills, color management, knowledge about printing. How about albums.
You get the idea................
Post your equipment list and more details and I am sure a few of the wedding photographer here will try and help you.
Good luck!
Sam
This is the popular opinion I think, even though this is only wholly true with a very small percentage of people entering this business. These things do happen though and I think this is where the animosity comes from. In the case of your "only photographer in your one horse town", he is probably an old-school film guy who shoots digital like a film camera and is threatened by anyone who comes into his turf and especially if they are willing to spend some time learning photoshop... which he most likely believes is the antichrist.
So, like most people starting in this business I got my start when a friend asked me to shoot their wedding and I learned as much as I could, shot the wedding, made them happy-ish, but I wasn't happy at all with what I delivered. I realized I didn't know nearly as much about photography as I thought. I committed to doing it for a living though and within a few months I moved about an hour away from my daughter to a bigger city where I could work nights as a bartender, go to photography school and started networking. When bartending I met a few local photographers and one agreed to use me as an assistant for a product shoot. We got to be friends and he shoots only a couple wedding a year anymore but brought me along on a couple and taught me about wedding photography, gave me the opportunity to build my portfolio, and next thing you know I do it for a living. I don't get to shoot what I want for as much as I want all the time but I shoot most every week and get paid for it.
So, if you want respect from a seasoned photographer do more than just say "I'm going to be a photographer!" and consider getting some education, learn the speak, and be willing to go outside of your rural area to do it all. I'm sure there are other ways to do it, but that is how I did it and I know that works. Well... I'm not driving the Ferrari yet, but we'll see!
Matt
Bodies: Canon 5d mkII, 5d, 40d
Lenses: 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f4.0L, 135 f2L, 85 f1.8, 50 1.8, 100 f2.8 macro, Tamron 28-105 f2.8
Flash: 2x 580 exII, Canon ST-E2, 2x Pocket Wizard flexTT5, and some lower end studio strobes
I'm not looking to do photography as my main source of income - I'm a freelance writer and I really enjoy that aspect of my job. I am, however, doing it on the side, not so much for the income but for a way to use my creativity (I stink at landscapes and do much better with people).
I'm actually a bit afraid to give my list of equipment because I don't have two of everything. My husband and I don't make tons of money and even though I'm planning on getting a second camera body by next year (hopefully sooner with the extra photography work that's coming in), I only have one camera body right now. Am I worried about something happening during the wedding? Absolutely! But unless I get a sudden windfall, unfortunately I can't afford another camera body.
I'm sure I sound a bit inexperienced to you guys, and I am - and maybe a bit defensive, but only because I think I'm harder on myself than almost anyone else can be. I know that I'm a beginner, I know that I don't know everything, but I do have a thirst to learn.
As for my website, you can see it at http://www.randileephotography.com - I'm sure I'm opening up myself to a host of criticism here
Thank you to anyone who has answered and who is going to take time out of their day to answer. I appreciate it.
It sounds like you have the right attitude. I don't think there is another place on the Internet where your going to get as much friendly help as here, but don't worry about being critiqued! Having another set of eyes looking at you work is very beneficial. If you have a hard time having your photos critiqued or flaws pointed out you may want to consider something other than photography.
Don't be afraid to post your equipment list! I can already figure out it's gona be on the short side, but if you let everyone know what you have they can help with getting the most out of it.
As an example lets say the big hole in your equipment is a fast lens for the church. This can be talked about and maybe you could beg, borrow, or rent that piece of eqipment.
See where I am going with all this?
Sam
-The model that your local wedding pro has presented to you is not indicative of ALL wedding pros. Im sure competition (especially in a smaller town) is something he would rather avoid and that is what is guiding his behavior.
-I was lucky enough to be introduced to a pro who has made his photography (including wedding work) a lifetime career when I first started. He guided me through ALL of the basics of getting me started. We talked very little about photography, but did talk about gear....and mostly about business. We have never met face to face, he is in Tennessee...I am in Louisiana, but he was a great help and inspiration. A good mentor. He talked me into taking my first wedding.....rather than discouraging me from doing it.
- I think newbies should definately have an appreciation for what will be required of them as a wedding photographer. It is demanding on many levels, but of course...isn't impossible. Most of the first timers that come to Dgrin are going to shoot the wedding regardless of whether someone tries to discourage them or not....so the best approach is to try to give them the help they need to get it done to the best of their ability.
My mentor really dumbed it down for me....
-Do you have a camera?
-Do you know how to use it?
-Can you shoot a properly focused and exposed photograph?
Then...he says....you can shoot a wedding.
He (obviously
Jeff
-Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
-My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
I have a comment or two on your web site. First if your going to offer an option to buy prints I would highly recommend setting prices above your cost. If you don't value your prints why would anyone else?
It doesn't look like your uploading the full res files? Or are they cropped? I would also recommend enabling right click protection. Right now I can copy the full size image you uploaded.
Now on your price page. I am unclear with regard to what I as a customer am getting. As an example $300.00 wedding. Are you providing files only? What size? How many? (don't say all!) Prints? Post processing? Will they be able to order from your web site?
Oh and although the Rebel is an entry level DLSR, properly used and with good glass it can produce very nice images.
Sam
The pricing was the hard part for me, and I still have issues. I have satellite internet, so it's almost impossible to upload all of the full res files.
I also do not have the pro level here, so I can't change the price for prints! That will be changing, however, by the end of the year (it'd better!). Again, it's one of those "need more finances before I can upgrade the pricing" things.
I do have the XSi and I have the 18-55mm lens that came with my camera (NOT my favorite lens), the 50mm f/1.8, and my telephoto - 55-250mm 5.6. I also have Speedlite 430EX II and a diffuser.
I will definitely be changing up the wording on the pricing page. Thank you so much for the advice!
Wedding photography is a bit different than most other sorts - it happens only once and there's a lot riding on getting the shot the first time and every time. Sports photography can be much the same if you are hired by a particular athlete to get shots of him/her during his/her efforts. Like Jeff has already said, this photography may be attempting to protect his marketing turf against "poachers". Even more common is the up-and-coming photographer that hangs with and learns from a seasoned professional only to cut the ties and go into direct competition with that same established professional. In a sparcely populated area, that competition could be the difference between making the mortgage and being kicked out on the street. Time for some encouragement:
- Read the stickies in the "Wedding Photography Resources" - there's lots of wisdom gained through painful experience to be had there ... and it's free!!
- Study the postings of the various photographers in the Wedding Forum. Decide what you like and think about how you can get similar results. Then expand on that, change it up, make it your own style. I'm not saying that you shouldn't copy other's work - knock yourself out. But, also and in addition make photos that are yours!
- Practice! Practice in the dark because not all weddings or receptions are going to be well lit. Get to the point where you can make settings changes without taking your eye from the viewfinder.
- When you have questions (notice I didn't say "if"
), post them in a new thread and someone will be sure to provide you with answer(s).
- Think about the day and the how the events of the day will proceed. Try to anticipate everything that could happen and then think about how you will handle it. Know, going in, that the wedding that goes exactly as planned has yet to happen - at least that's been my experience. This attitude and preparation will help you avoid panic - you won't have to think about how to meet the challenge as you'll already have the answer. This will make you look sooooo smart in the eyes of your client(s).
- If you can, crash a wedding are two between now and your gig. If you can, do it in the church where you clients are going to be getting hitched. This will help you with the above.
- Finally, if you do all the above, there's no doubt you can make a good showing of yourself.
I just read you last post - hmmmm I think you may want to investigate renting suitable equipment. Outdoors, the lenses you have may do the job, but probably not indoors.Read "Thoughts on photographing a wedding" (link in my siggy) for other info and thoughts.
Get some backup equipment - what happens if your camera fails half way through the ceremony?
My Photos
Thoughts on photographing a wedding, How to post a picture, AF Microadjustments?, Light Scoop
Equipment List - Check my profile
Ultimately, I responded because I figured that if they were looking for someone with little to no experience, they could very well end up with total crap (pardon my French). If I did the shots, however, then in the absolute worst case scenario, they would end up with something one step up from total crap. So I sent an email explaining a little about me and a link to my galleries, and the bride responded within an hour and said that my work was the best she'd seen so far and I've got the job. So, I'll be shooting the wedding in October.
So I guess I have a couple comments here:
1 - I'm in the same boat as Randi and am already spending all kinds of time looking at wedding galleries and photos posted here, reading, pricing out gear (also on a limited budget, but would like to get one nice lens before the wedding), getting familiar with all the settings I never use but might possibly need in some crazy situation that I don't anticipate, researching researching researching and really wanting to do the best I possibly can... So I understand where she's coming from.
2 - When the B&G go into this not expecting much and on a very limited budget, is it really so bad for someone in our shoes to use this opportunity to shoot the wedding and gain experience?
3 - How did most of you get your start? I hear about working with established photogs as the second shooter (hopefully I can work in one or two of those before this wedding), but has anyone else started out by just answering an ad or shooting for a friend and ended up as a professional?
Thanks and my apologies for the long post
And thanks, Scott, for the encouraging words
Spread the love! Go comment on something!
I was on POTN (forum) and read something that stuck w/ me.
Yes you can run a wedding business to have business - it is easy to find snap shot photogs who will tell you they are great.....
Also,wedding photog business can be a side business ... very cool.
or a full time gig.
After reading the lasting affects of wedding photography, It brought a new perspective to wedding photography....
It was this.... (the thought)
Yes, it is important to get at least good shots of the standard images from a wedding (formals, etc.)
But weddings are also a time/place that people make an extra effort to attend if invited.
Start asking seasoned photogs if the bride/groom or mothers every call back after a wedding, say 4-6 months,
to get pictures because a loved one passed away.
Maybe they didn't have many pictures or wanted the latest and that was from the wedding.....
(i never thought of this.)
So beside capturing pictures of the day and at particular non-do over moments in time - wedding photographers
also capture family's and friends together....
A wedding photog will leave an imprint on the family and friends they photograph......
Does this persuade me not to do wedding photography - No Way!
I really enjoy the day, the challenges and even the post processing afterwords.... okay - i'm a little crazy. :crazy
anyway .... as stated earlier, another perspective.
Later,
_Mark
I began like this....
I needed a long lens to photograph a bald eagle...but didn't own one. I called the wife of a co-worker to ask if I could borrow hers. "Sure",she says....but in return she made me promise to help her shoot her close friend's brother's wedding. We went whole hog. E-session, bridals, and the wedding and reception. I kept close tabs on how much time I had invested. She didn't own any fast lenses so she borrowed from me. The photos turned out better than I expected, and I learned a lot.
Here's one from my first....
...and another
The bald eagle turned out to be an osprey.
-I did two other weddings for free. One as a second learning experience, and the other because it sounded like an interesting wedding and I knew if I didnt do it they would have no photos.
A couple from each of those...
Then I began charging....
...and that first one was for a simple wedding with an older couple. It was the easiest by far that I have covered, and the least amount of work.
Since then I have gradually raised my pricing. One thing I definately learned is that working for free sucks! Due to my full-time job, I unfortunately have to turn away many prospective clients...but it also affords me the option to turn down weddings for which I don't think I am a good fit. After all, the photographer should get something out of the photos as well. I turn away a lot of work.....mostly due to scheduling limitations, but I do manage to do a few per year.
...and just so you know...all of the photos here except this one were captured with a Canon XTi....this with the 50D
I enjoy it. Meeting the young couples...and their families...and being a witness as well as a historian of sorts of their beginnings is something that I veiw as a priveledge. For a photographer, a wedding is surely a target rich environment, but for the couple involved it is something infinitely "more" than that. Thus the emphasis on "once in a lifetime" shots....at least for most folks.
Jeff
-Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
-My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
Jeff - Beautiful shots. Would you mind telling me how you got the great watermark on the photos? I have Photoshop CS4 but I can't seem to figure out how to get really nice watermarks on my photos.
Again, I greatly appreciate hearing from everyone on this!
I'd also recommend checking into the PSA (photographic society of america) for some local chapters. Most clubs hold monthly or bi-weekly meetings to learn new techniques, hold contests, and network with other photographers.
I do agree with you though that when starting out it's amazing how many cold shoulders you get from fellow photographers regardless of what subject you're shooting. We're all in the same profession, hobby, or interest.. what's with the competition. Feel free to email me anytime. I'm happy to help:)