How many pics do you show clients?

Camara Photography, LLC

OK, from my experience, this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. When I first started shooting all digital weddings I would give clients a BUTT load of pics. Anything I thought was on the fence of my standards, I would show them, thinking more was better. Sometimes up to 800+ images. Whenever I would do this, the feedback was "it was overwhelming to go through that many pics". So I found that the happy medium is typically around 300+- (only showing best of the best).

Well, I just gave a client 331 images, and I got: "We love them. We just have one question. We were under the impression that there would be a lot more picutres (around 1200)."

Here's the link to their gallery: http://camaraphotography.smugmug.com/gallery/8747038_aZdck/1/578697972_Mj2op If a PW is needed it's "Rob & Kelly"

Any advise on how to reply to this email?

Thanks,
Dave

Camara Photography, LLC

Oh yeah... any C&C's welcome.

Blurmore

Camara Photography, LLC wrote:

OK, from my experience, this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. When I first started shooting all digital weddings I would give clients a BUTT load of pics. Anything I thought was on the fence of my standards, I would show them, thinking more was better. Sometimes up to 800+ images. Whenever I would do this, the feedback was "it was overwhelming to go through that many pics". So I found that the happy medium is typically around 300+- (only showing best of the best).

Well, I just gave a client 331 images, and I got: "We love them. We just have one question. We were under the impression that there would be a lot more picutres (around 1200)."

Here's the link to their gallery: http://camaraphotography.smugmug.com/gallery/8747038_aZdck/1/578697972_Mj2op If a PW is needed it's "Rob & Kelly"

Any advise on how to reply to this email?

Thanks,
Dave

I think you need to change whatever gave the "impression" that there would be 1200 photos. My contract states that I proof between 225-300 pics for an 8 hour job. Occasionally I have not been able to cut to 300, but it wasn't much over like...315. I DO give them every in focus, decent exposure I take (on DVD) but they don't get posted to their gallery, that might be 1200 (usually more like 900) but NO WAY would I proof 1200 pics.

Camara Photography, LLC

Blurmore wrote:

I think you need to change whatever gave the "impression" that there would be 1200 photos. My contract states that I proof between 225-300 pics for an 8 hour job. Occasionally I have not been able to cut to 300, but it wasn't much over like...315. I DO give them every in focus, decent exposure I take (on DVD) but they don't get posted to their gallery, that might be 1200 (usually more like 900) but NO WAY would I proof 1200 pics.

Thanks Blurmore.
OK, I'm not going crazy. I typically get around the same amount of the best of the bests, around 300, and I typically will shoot around 1200. I may have casually mentioned that we take around 1200 shots, and she took it as that's what they would see. I think I will be adding this language to my contract!

sweet caroline

Around 300 sounds right to me. Maybe put an explanation in your contract that says a typical wedding yields x photos, but every wedding is different. Your goal is to tell the story of their wedding.

Caroline

mmmatt

Blurmore wrote:

I think you need to change whatever gave the "impression" that there would be 1200 photos. My contract states that I proof between 225-300 pics for an 8 hour job. Occasionally I have not been able to cut to 300, but it wasn't much over like...315. I DO give them every in focus, decent exposure I take (on DVD) but they don't get posted to their gallery, that might be 1200 (usually more like 900) but NO WAY would I proof 1200 pics.

what exactly do you mean by this Jason... Are you saying you don't give them printed proofs or you just give them to them "out of camera" . Do you do any corrections on the other images?

Matt

Qarik

hmm..I just struggled with this same issue. My natural culling left me with around 500 from over 1300. But here is something I do different..I created subcategories in the main directory..

Reid and Mellissa
Editiors choice
Getting ready
Ceremony
Faimly and Wedding Party
Reception

The when I broke it down this way..the proportions of photos forced me to to cull down to about just over 300. So for example if I had 30 ceremony shots, it didn't make sense to have 50 getting ready shots.

What I like about this method is that it gives the collection of photos a more cohesiveness while forcing to to keep only the best.

Finally one thing decided I don't like is opening a link to a wedding and seeing 20 pages of photos. I can't slog through all of them no matter how good they are. The divisions allow to me to put the best of the best in my editor choice section while giving the view a more inviting way to browse the collection imo.


excuse me if you seen this recently!
http://www.danielkimphotography.com/Weddings/818913

Camara Photography, LLC

Qarik wrote:

hmm..I just struggled with this same issue. My natural culling left me with around 500 from over 1300. But here is something I do different..I created subcategories in the main directory..

Reid and Mellissa
Editiors choice
Getting ready
Ceremony
Faimly and Wedding Party
Reception

The when I broke it down this way..the proportions of photos forced me to to cull down to about just over 300. So for example if I had 30 ceremony shots, it didn't make sense to have 50 getting ready shots.

What I like about this method is that it gives the collection of photos a more cohesiveness while forcing to to keep only the best.

Finally one thing decided I don't like is opening a link to a wedding and seeing 20 pages of photos. I can't slog through all of them no matter how good they are. The divisions allow to me to put the best of the best in my editor choice section while giving the view a more inviting way to browse the collection imo.


excuse me if you seen this recently!
http://www.danielkimphotography.com/Weddings/818913

Thanks everyone. It sounds like we're on the same page.

Qarik, I hear what your saying about the different galleries. Don't take this the wrong way! I'm not a fan of having to flip between galleries (on anyone's site). I would either like to see a mixed bag of a photograpers best work, in a gallery. Or follow the progression of a wedding without having to toggle between multiple galleries to view the same wedding. But that's me. I'm lazy like that.

Here was my response to my client's email:
"Hi Kelly,
I may have casually mentioned that we shoot around 1,200 images. What is posted are the best of the best.. Typically we'll take 2 shots of most compositions in case we get people making a funny face, or blinking, and when it comes to large group formals I'll take up to 6 or 7 frames of the same shot, for the same reason. So many of pics are just slightly different. For instance, I probably took about 15 - 20 shots of you and your dad walking down the isle. Each one of them just inches closer to the "altar". I pick the best of each "moment", and edit those one or two, as to not be redundant.

I will give you all the, unedited, in focus, technically good photo's when I mail you the discs. You'll have a better idea of what I'm talking about. If you want any of those edited, you can call or email me the file names and I will get them edited for you.

I hope that better explains things, and I'm sorry if the quantity was vague.

Thank you,
Dave"

She responded very positively.

Qarik

Camara Photography, LLC wrote:

Thanks everyone. It sounds like we're on the same page.

Qarik, I hear what your saying about the different galleries. Don't take this the wrong way! I'm not a fan of having to flip between galleries (on anyone's site). I would either like to see a mixed bag of a photograpers best work, in a gallery. Or follow the progression of a wedding without having to toggle between multiple galleries to view the same wedding. But that's me. I'm lazy like that.

Here was my response to my client's email:
"Hi Kelly,
I may have casually mentioned that we shoot around 1,200 images. What is posted are the best of the best.. Typically we'll take 2 shots of most compositions in case we get people making a funny face, or blinking, and when it comes to large group formals I'll take up to 6 or 7 frames of the same shot, for the same reason. So many of pics are just slightly different. For instance, I probably took about 15 - 20 shots of you and your dad walking down the isle. Each one of them just inches closer to the "altar". I pick the best of each "moment", and edit those one or two, as to not be redundant.

I will give you all the, unedited, in focus, technically good photo's when I mail you the discs. You'll have a better idea of what I'm talking about. If you want any of those edited, you can call or email me the file names and I will get them edited for you.

I hope that better explains things, and I'm sorry if the quantity was vague.

Thank you,
Dave"

She responded very positively.

It's a very detailed and truthful explanation you give to your client. Personally I would have been more curt with my response along these lines:

"The collection represents my professional judgment and editing process. These images represent your beautiful wedding to my standards. If you would like to see any pictures from a particular portion of you wedding please let me know and I can review my process. "

The only reason I would choose to be expound less is that sometimes the more detail you give the more questions it can generate. If they continue to to inquire and ask about the # of images then I would give the kind of explanation you gave.

Toshido

Dave...

lets hope she does not look at the 1000+ photos are likely to send her and have her ask you to edit them all

I have done similar though, but I would charge extra for any additional editing. After all you already edited 300+ photos and told the story of her wedding sufficiently through photos. Any extra should be just that, extra.

MelMcClain

Dave,

I like your letter response to your client. It shows that you are professional and supporting of what she is or was hoping for. Taking the time to explain it in detail on the first shot looks great on you and your company to your client and will make her more likely to refer you to her friends and family. Great job!

sweet caroline

MelMcClain wrote:

Dave,

I like your letter response to your client. It shows that you are professional and supporting of what she is or was hoping for. Taking the time to explain it in detail on the first shot looks great on you and your company to your client and will make her more likely to refer you to her friends and family. Great job!

I agree- a well thought out response. She'll appreciate the honesty of your explanation.

Caroline

joshhuntnm

I suppose one idea would be to give them an A disk and a B disk.

I give them everything except the really bad pics that I toss. Everything goes through Lightroom. Last weekend one wedding had 1688 photos. I haven't process all those yet, but my guess is they will get 1500 photos.

joshhuntnm

I keep pondering this issue.

here is a follow up question: which is faster for you the photographer -- to cull of to edit?

In Lightroom it is a pretty quick fix, once one pic is fixed, to copy that fix to the next six similar shots that nearly always have the same fix needed. to my way of thinking it is easier on me to just fix them all than it would be to carefully choose among them as to which one I am going to give the B/G

Blurmore

mmmatt wrote:

what exactly do you mean by this Jason... Are you saying you don't give them printed proofs or you just give them to them "out of camera" . Do you do any corrections on the other images?

Matt

I've explained my process before...but I will again in short.

1. I don't really cull, I star the winners, 4 stars. From my typical wedding this will be between 225-300 pictures. So long as the number is not under 225 or over 300 I don't return to look at all the pictures. I have a very specific hierarchy of how I compare and find the good ones and I trust the system and my eye. So then I select only the 4 star shots.

2. I assign a red label to the shots I want to print in black and white. Then I select 1 photo (usually a good natural light shot) to formulate my B&W preset. The preset is custom adjusted to enhance the couple's skin tone/hair color and or attire colors. Then I make a split tone. Sometimes I have one done already from the couple's engagement sitting.

3. Every one of the 225-300 4 star images gets color corrected and exposure adjustment, I use sync for shots taken in similar light. Every image also gets appropriate cropping and straightening. Images that need cloning get cloned in LR2 if minor and CS2 if major, usually no more than 10 images need major cloning. My last wedding had a light pole that I just could not dodge and I cloned 11 or 12 shots in CS2. There were a couple of minor stretch mark issues that were cloned in LR2. The biggest clone job I usually have to do is eyes on blinkers, and I usually have 1 every 4 jobs or so.

4. I upload and order 4x6 proofs from smugmug. Then I edit all the B&W (red labeled shots) as color shots (again usually using sync), then I turn off filters and use sync to do the "rest" of the shots usually syncing 4-12 shots at a time. The extras don't get cropped, straightened, or cloned, but they usually get what they need exposure and color wise.

5. I deliver the 4x6 proofs in an album, and a DVD with 3 folders "Proofs" are the exact shots I printed and uploaded, "B&W in color" are all of the color versions I processed in B&W and "extras" everything else. I DOUBT many couples use or even look through the extras, but if there was someone who didn't make it into proofs, or looks better in one of the "extras" they have them.

divamum

sweet caroline wrote:

I agree- a well thought out response. She'll appreciate the honesty of your explanation.

Caroline

I think it's professional yet friendly, and shows that you're trying to work with her.

divamum

Blurmore, thanks for codifying your process - it's useful and seems to me to have some excellent timesaving steps involved. Obviously, I don't shoot weddings, but the headshot sessions I've been doing have been resulting in a muddled (and torturously time-consuming) workflow and I appreciate some ideas from you pros on ways to keep it clear, fast, and high quality

mmmatt

Blurmore wrote:

I've explained my process before...but I will again in short.

1. I don't really cull, I star the winners, 4 stars. From my typical wedding this will be between 225-300 pictures. So long as the number is not under 225 or over 300 I don't return to look at all the pictures. I have a very specific hierarchy of how I compare and find the good ones and I trust the system and my eye. So then I select only the 4 star shots.

2. I assign a red label to the shots I want to print in black and white. Then I select 1 photo (usually a good natural light shot) to formulate my B&W preset. The preset is custom adjusted to enhance the couple's skin tone/hair color and or attire colors. Then I make a split tone. Sometimes I have one done already from the couple's engagement sitting.

3. Every one of the 225-300 4 star images gets color corrected and exposure adjustment, I use sync for shots taken in similar light. Every image also gets appropriate cropping and straightening. Images that need cloning get cloned in LR2 if minor and CS2 if major, usually no more than 10 images need major cloning. My last wedding had a light pole that I just could not dodge and I cloned 11 or 12 shots in CS2. There were a couple of minor stretch mark issues that were cloned in LR2. The biggest clone job I usually have to do is eyes on blinkers, and I usually have 1 every 4 jobs or so.

4. I upload and order 4x6 proofs from smugmug. Then I edit all the B&W (red labeled shots) as color shots (again usually using sync), then I turn off filters and use sync to do the "rest" of the shots usually syncing 4-12 shots at a time. The extras don't get cropped, straightened, or cloned, but they usually get what they need exposure and color wise.

5. I deliver the 4x6 proofs in an album, and a DVD with 3 folders "Proofs" are the exact shots I printed and uploaded, "B&W in color" are all of the color versions I processed in B&W and "extras" everything else. I DOUBT many couples use or even look through the extras, but if there was someone who didn't make it into proofs, or looks better in one of the "extras" they have them.

thanks Jason. I too struggle with the how many to give thing and I think your solution is pretty good. I just may go to that myself.

Matt

creativedeviance

Camara Photography, LLC wrote:

Well, I just gave a client 331 images, and I got: "We love them. We just have one question. We were under the impression that there would be a lot more picutres (around 1200)."

I think you captured the moments of the wedding. Were they looking for more candid shots of people at the wedding? From an outsiders position looking at the shots, they look like you cover the special event and you also got some really special memory shots. I have some wording in my contract saying that the number of produced shots are from XX-XXX and the final numbers are at the discression of the photographer.

zoomer

I delete all the bad pics in camera and process all the good ones...however many that turns out to be.
I normally take 800-1000 and normally get 600 to 800 good ones. I load appx 150ea of my favorites into their online gallery.
But we sit down with them and look at all 600-800 on a dual monitor system, which is when they pick their prints and the shots that go in their book.
Never show a client bad pictures. That is why I never show a photo that has not been fully processed.