What to say when the bride want's EVERY photo?

bloomphotog

I'm sure a few of you have had to field this request before. The bride is very happy with the album and prints, but then pops the "can I get a DVD with every image you took on my wedding day?"...ahhh! RAW images, 8FPS bursts, setup shots...I don't like the idea one bit. Seems way unprofessional.

How do you guys handle this one?

emeraldrose

bloomphotog wrote:

I'm sure a few of you have had to field this request before. The bride is very happy with the album and prints, but then pops the "can I get a DVD with every image you took on my wedding day?"...ahhh!

Maybe offer a slide show with a no print option so she can watch the dvd and see the images, but she can't print them and still has to get prints from you.

Hikin' Mike

bloomphotog wrote:

I'm sure a few of you have had to field this request before. The bride is very happy with the album and prints, but then pops the "can I get a DVD with every image you took on my wedding day?"...ahhh! RAW images, 8FPS bursts, setup shots...I don't like the idea one bit. Seems way unprofessional.

How do you guys handle this one?

Has she seen all of the photos, like the '8FPS bursts, setup shots'? Probably not, so why tell her?

If I were a wedding photographer, I would say no. If they insist, then tell her it's going to be extra.

Wil Davis

Hikin' Mike wrote:

Has she seen all of the photos, like the '8FPS bursts, setup shots'? Probably not, so why tell her?

If I were a wedding photographer, I would say no. If they insist, then tell her it's going to be extra.

On the other hand, she's bought your services for the event, and therefore it could be said that she owns all the pics you take, unless it specifies in the contract. I've done contract gigs before where it is very specific about who owns what and how it can be used.

Just a thought -
- Wil

Art Scott

would explain the extra time it will take to process all of the extra photos and explain that it will cost her more or she can trust your ability to produce a great story and take what you will provide for her.

AspectArts

I had to deal with this issue earlier this year, the bride was like "Oh, it doesn't matter if the wedding party looks crappy, as long as we look good. I don't mind the closed eyes ones." I really didn't want to do this, I didn't give her the "out-takes" for a reason... if they don't look good, I don't look good. I didn't give in, and she did (lol), but I promptly added a "photographer's discretion" clause to my contract.

zoomer

Raw pictures aren't photos, they are digital negatives.
Only processed raw files converted to jpegs are photos.

Jpegs are photos when you take them, but still, I would not give them all the photos. I only give them the good photos. Sure as heck those crappy photos will be seen by others and you do not want that out there as an advertisement of your work.

ChatKat

Review your contract
My contract says that I provide images that are of my choice and that I cull for quality images that represent my style and level of quality to the image. I tell the bride that I will take multiple images of the same shot and edit out the duplicates right from the start. Then I tell them that I often take duplicate shots because of micro expressions and that they will get less than half of what I shoot because of the shutter and motor drive. I tell them that some of it is insurance and my shooting meithod. Up front disclosure makes things easier. So does the X key in Lightroom - Gone!

Photog4Christ

At the initial consult (before they even hire me) I let them know what to expect. That I take several hundred images throughout the course of the day. I edit out all duplicates, blinks, not looking at the camera, picking their nose (they always like that line) and the images I present to them are the only images that are available. I go through and correct every image that is presented to them, what they see is the final image.

What I present to them is my artistic vision. If I show them a B & W image, then, no, they may not see it in color.

Do not go back and "find" other images, otherwise you're opening up a HUGE can of worms.

barnyard

Hikin' Mike wrote:

Has she seen all of the photos, like the '8FPS bursts, setup shots'? Probably not, so why tell her?

Exactly.

I had a shot that a bride saw me take. It was not in the album and the bride rode me about it. I said that I HAD to edit it. She said that she HAD to have it. I printed it and she understood. The bridesmaid was bent down to dance with her daughter and the shot I got showed her breasts perfectly.

Whenever anyone demanded all the photos, I told that anecdote and reminded them that they were paying me to use my professional judgement.

Tom B

Scott_Quier

I've often gotten the questions, "How many photos will we get?" and "Do we get all the photos?" (from different prospective clients, of course). My answers have always been something along the line of they get all the photos the meet my quality standards, the photos thus selected are at the complete and total of the photographer (my contract so stipulates), and that most or all of the images not delivered are duplicates, over- or under-exposed, blurred, or not flattering to the subject (see the above comment about the lady bending over), etc. I've yet to have any issue with a client when it is expressed in this fashion, during the intial interview and before the contract is signed.

However, this doesn't answer the OP's question - what to say after the fact. If one hasn't done an adequate job of managing the client's expectations, then the photographer is forced into a corner from which there is only one business savy reponse (but stated with a little more sensitivity than this example ),

"Sorry, all the unflattering, blurred, etc were deleted during the culling/editing process. You paid for my professional judgement to build the best and most flattering package of prints and I have done so."

BTW - No client I have ever worked for has paid me to push the shutter button and deliver everything that got captured. They are paying for the service and for the professional judgement to produce a package of artful, flattering and professional quality images. A photographer can't do that and deliver ALL the images captured. The two situations are 100% mutually exclusive. If they want someone to just push the shutter button, well, they can always avail themselves of the services of those who list on Craig's List .

Quantum3

Photog4Christ wrote:

At the initial consult (before they even hire me) I let them know what to expect. That I take several hundred images throughout the course of the day. I edit out all duplicates, blinks, not looking at the camera, picking their nose (they always like that line) and the images I present to them are the only images that are available. I go through and correct every image that is presented to them, what they see is the final image.

What I present to them is my artistic vision. If I show them a B & W image, then, no, they may not see it in color.

Do not go back and "find" other images, otherwise you're opening up a HUGE can of worms.

I would buy the picking nose and not looking to camera pictures... They're the best, ofently.

Vycor

Ive only shot a few things and both times I supplied the images to get printed... but because i was new and knew the people i shot for. I did some post processing on about 100 images or so... i gave them the DVD's with an ORIGINALS folder and in the main folder the images i fixed.

I also explained "the originals are just that, right off the camera no processing"

If they want the images, fine, but if im shooting and im charging to print also, im not just gonna hand over the images in lieu of printing them and what not, id lose money.... sooo id say "sure after we're all done you can have the dvd of the raw images and if you like something and want me to work on them, we can arrange seperate fees"

Kinkajou

I don't do wedding photography, so I could be completely wrong here, but if you shoot a wedding, the client gets to view the proofs, right? And there are generally a couple hundred proofs, yeah? So is she asking for MORE than a CD of all the proofs?

But I'm with some of the other folks, explain (and possibly show her) the duplicates and awkward/imperfect shots (someone has an unfortunate expression - even her, a kid ran through the middle of the shot, whatever) so that maybe she'll understand why you've made a selection of a couple hundred for her. It might make her feel better to know exactly what it is that you're choosing to omit, so she doesn't feel like you're holding anything important back from her and then she is able to trust your judgement.

I dunno, I'm just guessing here

Scott_Quier

Kinkajou wrote:

I don't do wedding photography, so I could be completely wrong here, but if you shoot a wedding, the client gets to view the proofs, right? And there are generally a couple hundred proofs, yeah? So is she asking for MORE than a CD of all the proofs?

I tried that with my first batch of weddings. Didn't work so well. My experience has been that it's almost impossible to get their attention for anything wedding related after the wedding. They are usually suffering from a serious case of wedding planning burnout.

Kinkajou wrote:

But I'm with some of the other folks, explain (and possibly show her) the duplicates and awkward/imperfect shots (someone has an unfortunate expression - even her, a kid ran through the middle of the shot, whatever) so that maybe she'll understand why you've made a selection of a couple hundred for her. It might make her feel better to know exactly what it is that you're choosing to omit, so she doesn't feel like you're holding anything important back from her and then she is able to trust your judgement.

I dunno, I'm just guessing here

I might be talked into showing them a couple of the culls, but only if I get a chance to prepare ahead of time. With every wedding I've done, there is some dirty laundry that I never want to see the light of day - I always make embarassing mistakes and I would rather a client never see some of those.

cmason

When I got married, too many years ago to admit, we hired a professional photographer, who also happened to be a family friend. He shot exclusively medium format, with Mamiya cameras that I still would love to have today. We bought many prints from him and filled frames and photo albums with them.

About 3 years ago, the photographer died, and his family called to ask if I wanted the proofs and negatives from my wedding. So I picked up what must have been 3 shoe boxes stuffed full of negatives and proofs. There are probably 300-500 negatives, which is amazing considering the cost, at least compared to the 'free' digital world. There are many proofs as well.

Getting to the point: we were delighted with the photos that we bought, and very happy with the shots. But what I did not realize is how many shots did not turn out, or were not as good as the ones we bought. It just never crossed my mind, until I got all the negatives and proofs. Many shots had folks with their head turned, eyes closed, or some other distraction. Other shots I thought good, but for some reason were not presented to me. Truth is, if we were handed these shots, it would have simply made life more difficult and more importantly, put a burden on us the customer that we are PAYING to avoid: choose the best shots to represent our big day.

I think it is important to remind the customer that they are not hiring some one to push a button on a camera. If that is what they want, then Cousin Ed and his Kodak will be perfect. They are hiring someone to capture the event, and represent it, in its best light, for the customer to cherish for years to come. A stack of hundreds of images is not what they are buying, but a select set of shots that best represent the event are what they are buying.

Perhaps a useful tool to share with a customer or potential customer would be a contact sheet with all the images from a given shot, perhaps a formal group setting. Here you can demonstrate the challenges of shooting people and illustrate that it isnt the quantity but the quality that counts.

Wil Davis

cmason wrote:

When I got married…
snip…

Great post, and many good points! I'd almost forgotten just how useful contact sheets were! It's almost too easy nowadays! I suppose that's the point, everyone's a photographer now…

- Wil

Scott_Quier

cmason wrote:

When I got married, too many years ago to admit, we hired a professional photographer, who also happened to be a family friend. He shot exclusively medium format, with Mamiya cameras that I still would love to have today. We bought many prints from him and filled frames and photo albums with them.

snip ..

- what he said

Scott McLeod Photo

You may want to ask if they are looking for something particular. Maybe they are looking for a photo with a family friend that was there but hasn't been shown. It may not be likely but possible. In that case see if they can provide a picture of the person.

I agree in general that you shouldn't give them everything. But for every rule there are always exceptions.

cdonovan

Scott McLeod Photo wrote:

You may want to ask if they are looking for something particular. Maybe they are looking for a photo with a family friend that was there but hasn't been shown. It may not be likely but possible. In that case see if they can provide a picture of the person.

I agree in general that you shouldn't give them everything. But for every rule there are always exceptions.

I agree, when I was asked this very question by a bride, I pointed to the contract and said, "No"

She said that they would never see the light of day, but I can't trust that, if they would never be shown or seen, why did she want them. What wasn't presented was a bunch of duplicates of formal shots and a few flub ups. One thing that I would highly recommend, is once you have all your photos edited, to rename them all in order so that their numbers are sequential, so when looking through they don't go from IMG_4555 then IMG_4566, they are going to start wondering where those missing frames are. I always rename each part of the day, ie, Reception_001


That little thing alone I'm sure has been a huge saving for me!

Scott_Quier

cdonovan wrote:

I agree, when I was asked this very question by a bride, I pointed to the contract and said, "No"

She said that they would never see the light of day, but I can't trust that, if they would never be shown or seen, why did she want them. What wasn't presented was a bunch of duplicates of formal shots and a few flub ups. One thing that I would highly recommend, is once you have all your photos edited, to rename them all in order so that their numbers are sequential, so when looking through they don't go from IMG_4555 then IMG_4566, they are going to start wondering where those missing frames are. I always rename each part of the day, ie, Reception_001


That little thing alone I'm sure has been a huge saving for me!

This renaming scheme is one approach.

One I like better is to rename them by the date/time they were taken. I usually use something like "HHMMSS_Garcia" as the template and I apply this to the RAW files as they are copied off the card. My thinking is that it is much easier to match a given JPG to the RAW should I ever want to re-edit the shot (doesn't happen often, but it has happened). Naming in this fashion, gaps are expected which makes managing the client's expectations so much easier.

FedererPhoto

Scott, the HHMMSS is actually not a bad idea. I personally rename all the RAWs sequentially (no gaps) before exporting to JPG, so my delivered JPGs and RAWs have the same file names.

As to the original question --

Manage expectations. In fact, I use it as a selling point up front -- "I don't make you decide which is the best of the 10 frames of a particular image is, I decide for you and you end up with a nice succinct set of your day rather than 3000 so-so images" ... I basically say "no" if asked after, but with a caveat of "is there anything in particular you are looking for or think you are missing -- I can go to my backups and take a quick look"

Jane B.

Photog4Christ wrote:

At the initial consult (before they even hire me) I let them know what to expect. That I take several hundred images throughout the course of the day. I edit out all duplicates, blinks, not looking at the camera, picking their nose (they always like that line) and the images I present to them are the only images that are available. I go through and correct every image that is presented to them, what they see is the final image.

What I present to them is my artistic vision. If I show them a B & W image, then, no, they may not see it in color.

Do not go back and "find" other images, otherwise you're opening up a HUGE can of worms.

You would have trouble getting me as a client! I will admit that my shooting is for fun and sharing with friends. But, I have moved heads when someone liked their expression better in one that was not as good of the rest of the group as another shot.

Also I would want control of what I got in B & W and/or color!!!!!

Jane B.

FedererPhoto

Jane B. wrote:

You would have trouble getting me as a client! I will admit that my shooting is for fun and sharing with friends. But, I have moved heads when someone liked their expression better in one that was not as good of the rest of the group as another shot.

Also I would want control of what I got in B & W and/or color!!!!!

Jane B.

You are, then, perhaps, not in his target demographic.

Some clients want 60gb of RAW files, others want to see nothing but a finished album... and a whole spectrum between. Trying to market such that ALL people will be made happy by your services is doomed to failure.

thenimirra

AspectArts wrote:

I had to deal with this issue earlier this year, the bride was like "Oh, it doesn't matter if the wedding party looks crappy, as long as we look good. I don't mind the closed eyes ones." I really didn't want to do this, I didn't give her the "out-takes" for a reason... if they don't look good, I don't look good. I didn't give in, and she did (lol), but I promptly added a "photographer's discretion" clause to my contract.

I've had to deal with this issue. What does your photographer's discretion clause say in your contract, if you don't mind. I would like to add one in to my contract too. Thanks!