IMAX quality from 1 megapixel

Baldy

Fascinating.

wxwax

This makes me worry even more about manufacturers who cram more pixels onto the same size sensor. Sony's crammed 8mp on their new F828, without enlarging the chip. No one questions that it makes a lot of noise over 100 ISO. And Baldy revealed that Canon's 10D will upgrade to 8mp from 6. Unless they increase the sensor size, will it all be for naught?

In the consumer market, which Dalsa does not target, 5-megapixel cameras often use the same size CCD as a 3-megapixel camera. More pixels are simply crammed onto the same-size chip.

"The pixels themselves get smaller," Myles said. "This has an impact on image quality."

Why? For one thing, smaller pixels are less light-sensitive.

Also, the lens quality might not support the additional pixels. As the receptors get smaller, a higher quality lens is needed to properly focus light onto each pixel. So where each pixel ought to capture different light information -- say perhaps a subtle shading change on the subject's cheek -- the same information can get spread across several pixels after passing through a lower quality lens.

cmr164

wxwax wrote:

This makes me worry even more about manufacturers who cram more pixels onto the same size sensor. Sony's crammed 8mp on their new F828, without enlarging the chip. No one questions that it makes a lot of noise over 100 ISO. And Baldy revealed that Canon's 10D will upgrade to 8mp from 6. Unless they increase the sensor size, will it all be for naught?

The 10D imager is [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]22.7mm x 15.1mm[/font] compared to the F828 [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 2/3" (whatever
that means) Thus the 10D has the area for 8MP.



[/font]

wxwax

No question you know more about it than I do. Is there unused space on the current 10D imager? If not, then what you say makes sense. But it the 10D imager is full, then won't adding more pixels force them to make each pixel smaller, a la article?

cmr164

wxwax wrote:

No question you know more about it than I do. Is there unused space on the current 10D imager? If not, then what you say makes sense. But it the 10D imager is full, then won't adding more pixels force them to make each pixel smaller, a la article?

Yes the pixels will get smaller but they will still be large enough. Think
about Canon's 11MP 1Ds

fish

cmr164 wrote:

Yes the pixels will get smaller but they will still be large enough. Think
about Canon's 11MP 1Ds

1Ds sensor is 24mm x 36mm. 10D sensor is 22.7mm x 15.1mm.
1Ds sensor is 864 sq. mm. 10D sensor is 342.8 sq. mm.
1Ds sensor has 2.5x more area than the 10D sensor, yet has only 1.76x as many pixels as the 10D.

This isn't about pixel size so much as sensor size. Seems like the 1Ds should be able to hit 15+mp at the same density as the 10D.


Or is my math wrong?

wxwax

I guess that leaves me very curious to read the reviews of the next generation 10D, if it does indeed have 8mp. I'll be curious to see if the chip is the same size as before, and if the image quality has actually been degraded by adding the extra mp. Very interesting.

jimf

F828 image sensor

cmr164 wrote:

The 10D imager is [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]22.7mm x 15.1mm[/font] compared to the F828 [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 2/3" (whatever
that means) Thus the 10D has the area for 8MP. [/font]

Sony's sensor is 8.8x6.6mm.

jim

cmr164

jimf wrote:

Sony's sensor is 8.8x6.6mm.

jim

Wow! Are you sure? That means that the 10D could fit 47MP before the pixels were as small as the Sony's pixels

8.8*6.6 = 58.08 22.7*15.1 = 342.77 342.77/58.08 = 5.90
area area ratio

patch29

I read an interesting article on the pixel myth somewhere. They made an interesting comment about pro quality sensors and consumer sensors.

Most consumer cameras have smaller pixels compared to the pro sensors with larger pixels. The larger pixels have a larger dynamic range and greater color depth. The way it was explained was a sensor has to catch the light, think of a consumer pixel like and cup and a pro pixel like a bucket, the bucket has a greater ability to handle much more information before it gets overload and can deliver a better quality file. I have a 1D with a 4.1mp sensor that is awesome, far better than my S50 with a 5mp sensor.

I would expect technology to keep moving forward and manufacturers will find a way to pack in more higher quality pixels into a smaller space. Hopefully we will see the next round in February. I look forward to the next generation of cameras, the last has given me good reason to retire film for the majority of my work.

wxwax

Excellent post, thanks Patch... or may I call you 29?