Open letter to those "PayPal Fees Extra" people

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Comments

  • PupatorPupator Major grins Posts: 2,322Registered Users Major grins
    edited May 6, 2010
    I agree 100% with Art. Why would I care what "net to the seller" is? When you do that, you're opening yourself up to hassle about how much you're charging for shipping and Paypal fees. Just do the math yourself. Priority Mail boxes are very helpful for determining shipping costs. The only extra I ever offer is if someone wants insurance. Delivery confirmation (included in the price) protects me - insurance protects them, so if they want it I say up front that it's $xx extra.
  • PhotoLasVegasPhotoLasVegas Major grins Posts: 264Registered Users Major grins
    edited May 20, 2010
    Please see:
    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=1390439#post1390439

    This is a $1300+ transaction that the seller is requesting payment via PayPal Gift, which circumvents the Seller/Buyer Protection policy of PayPal - in other words, the seller is asking the buyer to "Gift" money to him - and if he doesn't ship the item, there's NO RECOURSE WHATSOEVER. After all, the money was a GIFT, right?

    Again I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but if dGrin continues to allow sellers to add PayPal fees or, as in the case of this sales thread, allow only PayPal Gift as payment, I can almost guarantee there will be liability issues down the road.
    Las Vegas Wedding, Family, and Special Event Photographers.

    Canon 7d
    2 Canon 40d
    70-200 f2.8L IS, 50mm f1.4, 50mm f1.8, 28mm f1.8, Tamron 17-55 f2.8, ProOptic 8mm Fisheye
    And a bunch of other stuff ;)
  • DoctorItDoctorIt vrooom! Posts: 11,940Administrators moderator
    edited May 21, 2010
    I have moved this post from "requests to mods" thread as this is a point of discussion, not a true dgrin issue.

    As has been stated, in this thread, and in our policies, Dgrin does not/will not police how people exchange their money. It is not our business.

    We appreciate your efforts to protect people, and welcome your discussion.
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • PhotoLasVegasPhotoLasVegas Major grins Posts: 264Registered Users Major grins
    edited May 21, 2010
    Really? Because in your PM to me you asked me to "tone down" trying to protect people.

    Truly I couldn't care less - at this point I'm just sitting back waiting for someone to be scammed and then attempt to sue the moderators for their inaction. It's great entertainment.

    Myself, I'm smart enough to not get scammed. But I find it funny that you guys claim to have researched "multiple times" and determined you won't need to even slightly police your classifieds.. your research must be much different than mine, because EVERY other forum I'm active on - from car forums to computer forums to photo forums - have basic rules set up that are designed to provide even a slight amount of protection to their users. Heck MOST of the forums I'm a member of require a VERIFICATION process to even make a for sale post.. yet your stance is that anyone can post anything at any time, even if it clearly is a dangerous transaction and even if it blatantly allows the TOS of other sites (ie. PayPal) to be violated.

    Even if "legally" you have no requirement to offer even the slightest bit of protection - then obviously this stance shows your moral disregard for your members.

    I mean, really... how hard would it be to have a rule for posting in the classifieds which simply states that all sales threads must not violate the TOS of any money transfer services?

    Hell, the post a couple posts before my request (on the "request to moderators" thread) asked you guys to CORRECT A TYPO... that was done instantly... no problem, glad to help.. yet the members are at risk of being scammed for $1300 and you tell me to "tone down" my efforts to "protect everyone"?

    Interesting priorities, huh?
    Las Vegas Wedding, Family, and Special Event Photographers.

    Canon 7d
    2 Canon 40d
    70-200 f2.8L IS, 50mm f1.4, 50mm f1.8, 28mm f1.8, Tamron 17-55 f2.8, ProOptic 8mm Fisheye
    And a bunch of other stuff ;)
  • holzphotoholzphoto Major grins Posts: 387Registered Users Major grins
    edited May 21, 2010
    it is against paypal's user terms to charge the extra fees.

    as far as gift option, it is against paypal's terms to accept the gift option for goods. they are cracking down on this as well starting on june 4th and will cancel accounts if you are caught doing this.

    paypal gift option puts the seller at risk anyhow.
  • gecko0gecko0 Major grins Posts: 383Registered Users Major grins
    edited May 21, 2010
    I can completely understand the desire to have dgrin "protect its members" from scammers, but not concerned myself. Buyer beware is good enough. I don't see how a free, public, open forum should be expected to police itself when an adult wants to buy something online. Use your own common sense, same as you would for any other online purchase. Seller too new? Don't buy from them. Seller offering "too good" of a deal? Don't buy from them. Seller wants to transfer via PP Gift? Don't buy from them. Transfer via Nigeria first, then to a Zurich account, then Western Union? lol....you get the idea.
    Canon 7D and some stuff that sticks on the end of it.
  • Art ScottArt Scott Have PASSPORT will TRAVEL WICHITA, KS USAPosts: 8,959Registered Users Major grins
    edited May 21, 2010
    gecko0 wrote: »
    I can completely understand the desire to have dgrin "protect its members" from scammers, but not concerned myself. Buyer beware is good enough. I don't see how a free, public, open forum should be expected to police itself when an adult wants to buy something online. Use your own common sense, same as you would for any other online purchase. Seller too new? Don't buy from them. Seller offering "too good" of a deal? Don't buy from them. Seller wants to transfer via PP Gift? Don't buy from them. Transfer via Nigeria first, then to a Zurich account, then Western Union? lol....you get the idea.

    That is all fine and well but a simple line in the TOS as mentioned above would help out and it would also assure the newb that the forum cares about them and is willing to help them not get scammed..............
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • GadgetRickGadgetRick Almost Posts: 787Registered Users Major grins
    edited May 23, 2010
    Although I agree people shouldn't be, "charging extra for pp fees," I don't get in an uproar about it.

    More importantly, I'm on LOTS of boards where LOTS of stuff gets sold. Not one board has any kind of policing about something like pp fees or gift payments. I don't think it's up to Dgrin--or any other board for that matter--to do this. It's up to pp (in this case) to police their own customers. I don't see any liability issues the way they (Dgrin) do business now. In fact, my guess is any kind of mention of this sort of thing would open Dgrin to more problems as they would imply they have facilities/procedures in place to police this sort of thing.

    I think this whole thread is making a big deal out of nothing.
  • DoctorItDoctorIt vrooom! Posts: 11,940Administrators moderator
    edited May 24, 2010
    Truly I couldn't care less - at this point I'm just sitting back waiting for someone to be scammed and then attempt to sue the moderators for their inaction. It's great entertainment.
    Clearly you do care, however, I am not the only one that has asked you, politely, to leave it alone. Our terms our clear, and this has been in the guidelines since April 29, when this discussion first re-appeared:
    Please be aware: It is a violation of your PayPal user agreement to impose a surcharge (Section 4.5). Price your items accordingly, offer options if desired. That is all DGrin has to say on the matter.
    Erik
    moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]

  • angevin1angevin1 Performs as designed Posts: 3,403Registered Users Major grins
    edited May 31, 2010

    Really?.................................... "tone down" trying to protect people.

    at this point I'm just sitting back waiting for someone to be scammed and then attempt to sue the moderators for their inaction. It's great entertainment.

    Myself, I'm smart enough to not get scammed.

    Even if "legally" you have no requirement to offer even the slightest bit of protection - then obviously this stance shows your moral disregard for your members.

    yet the members are at risk of being scammed for $1300 and you tell me to "tone down" my efforts to "protect everyone"?

    Interesting priorities, huh?


    Protect People? You cannot protect us from our mis-judgments. Case in point? Last week I worked a trade with someone and sent my piece as agreed and he was supposed to send his to me. I sent mine, he got it said it didn't work, then supposedly did as I suggested and went to a Store to try my piece on another compatible product, still he said it didn't work. He shipped it back to me and of course, it still works just fine! He never sent me the trade piece, so in essence he saved me having to pay to send it back, but overall He and I both know he lied, and was dishonest on his end. Also everyone ought to agree I was darned lucky to get my piece back! Whew! Close one. And it was a poor judgment call on my part...So no! You cannot protect me from my own poor judgment!

    So if I hadn't gotten my piece back, what then? I can assure you I'd let the Mods know. But I wouldn't at all expect anyone to be responsible for my own poor judgment.

    I disagree with your Statement regarding DGRIN's Moral-disregard for members here. I just don't see evidence for it. In fact I see an atmosphere that sends a Moral message to "do the right thing!" Morals are all about ethics. And basically, when a person is a regular on THIS forum, he/she leaves a trail of text from which you can then pull from to make a judgment call about their overall Moral character. At least that's what I do if I become ambivalent about joining a discourse on a touchy subject, or if I am considering buying from them.

    In my case above I took a Moral leap of faith, which was cheap $$ in cost and Deep in value!

    If I had lost that lens______ Who knows what recourse I'd have attempted. I do know I would never have held anyone other than ME & the other party responsible. And On a personal front I don't want the Mods or Dgrin or whoever to be responsible somehow.....You just cannot legislate ethics.

    As for the Simple argument presented about PP fees and Shipping extra/Net to me, etc: A simple PM offer of " Will you take $$$ for it Shipped and PP with Insurance to me?" will typically get you where you want: a total!

    Or like it says in the Sticky..."Don't like the deal, Move on!" ( para-phrasing).
    tom wise
  • Y_KnotY_Knot Just Grinning Posts: 55Registered Users Big grins
    edited June 1, 2010
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