Many thanks to
Ziggy and Andy for taking the time to respond and to be so encouraging. I'm truly thankful for the Dgrin 'family' and your willlingness to help me out with this (and many other things as well!)
I'm short on time today, as many of us are, but I'll throw some original RAWs up on my smug page and link to them here.
I already boosted the exposure up to two stops in RAW to get them to where they are. I basically know NOTHING about using layers , so be patient with me there :uhoh .
I did find out something interesting when I re-installed my Phase One C1 LE RAW converter. I really think that LE did a superior job on these shots compared to Raw Shooter and Canon's DPP 1.6. I plan on trying to do them all over again using C1 LE. C1 seems to render the color and sharpness much better and more accurately. I can't stand the mottled look I'm seeing.
Also, as far as post processing advice, I should let you know that I'm using (or have available) the following programs:
Paint Shop Pro 9
Elements 3.0 (with Hidden Elements)
Raw Shooter
Canon DPP 1.6
Phase One C1 LE
So, if something comes to mind using any of the above I'd appreciate it much.
Again, I really want to emphasize how much it means to me to get your input on this and the time it takes to do so. Normally I find it difficult to seek advice, but your gratiousness is making it easier to admit I need it
Well, I'm off to do the 'picnic' thing in a few moments. I'll be back later today.
Thanks again to all,
Mongrel
If every keystroke was a shutter press I'd be a pro by now...
I'm sure the wizards of Dgrin here will be able to help out. I think there's still some room for improvement using your existing shots. I tried a bit of soft focus and shadow/highlight treatment in Photoshop to get the following.
This was quick and dirty so I didn't spend much time trying to get the color cast just right. You can also use a bit of dodging here and there to lighten up shadows on the subjects.
I like 3 and five... Five looks interesting because you can put them in a circle from the balcony to the house. or half a circle I should say. The little porch might give some nice light, of course I have no idea wether 18 people would fit in that porch...
Still, I think that the backdrop of the porch onto the house is a nice one, especially if they want the house in...
3 looks like a nice outside spot with enough shade... I would trust shade more then strong 2 AM light... Again I have no clue about 18 people fitting in that area. I don't like the side part on the other side unless you could hide the neigbours with people in your group.
I am reading this thread with a lot of intrest cause I will have groupshot on a 50 anniversary in october, with probably even more then 18 people...
I had no clue about the planning up front, but now I see how that one can make a huge difference and the fact that the shoot will be succesful or not.
Thanks Mongrel for asking the question, and thanks to the others for the answers. I am reading and reading... give us more!!!
I like 3 and five... Five looks interesting because you can put them in a circle from the balcony to the house. or half a circle I should say. The little porch might give some nice light, of course I have no idea wether 18 people would fit in that porch...
Still, I think that the backdrop of the porch onto the house is a nice one, especially if they want the house in...
3 looks like a nice outside spot with enough shade... I would trust shade more then strong 2 AM light... Again I have no clue about 18 people fitting in that area. I don't like the side part on the other side unless you could hide the neigbours with people in your group.
I am reading this thread with a lot of intrest cause I will have groupshot on a 50 anniversary in october, with probably even more then 18 people...
I had no clue about the planning up front, but now I see how that one can make a huge difference and the fact that the shoot will be succesful or not.
Thanks Mongrel for asking the question, and thanks to the others for the answers. I am reading and reading... give us more!!!
Bugger bugger, I am way too late here. I had no idea that this thread was going further then I thought, so I missed the actual shoot and more suggestions. This must have been a tremendous job and I must say that I like your setup... Everyone is sharp, no silly faces, no strange poses.
I think you handled it rather well Mongrel. The two red chairs bring in some extra color and add a pleasant touch.
With all the tips going on here, I wonder if I am equipped enough because I have no external flashes. I have my nikon D70, different lenses but that is about it...
My question is as of this moment: Is it possible to do group shots outside without flash or is this an illusion?
Thanks again Mongrel for having started this thread, learning curve is fast and furious here on my side...
Thanks also to all the contributing (I believe they call it) people with their advize.
What happens if after reading a thread like this you sigh and say to self that this is NOT going to work... stick to your earlier promises to self to not do important shots for other people and keep in mind that self is not a pro????
When can you be confident enough to think that you will not ruin it? Guess I will never get there...
Mongrel-"Back from the Dead"
sheesshhh! What a week
Just stopping back to say 'thanks' again.
I decided to just let the pics fly 'as-is'. I spent about two days (in between a ramped up work schedule and visiting family from Norway that I haven't seen in four years) re-working the pics. Man, my head and eyes hurt.
Well, I WILL be back to answer Photcat's questions and to give a synopsis of what I learned and all that bru-ha-ha.
TO ALL:
Please don't underestimate the value of the Dgrin Community! Protect it, nurture it, and cherish it.
Thanks,
Mongrel
If every keystroke was a shutter press I'd be a pro by now...
I agree with Angelo and Ziggy. I think that you are too hard on yourself. You have some very nice group posing here.
The LSII did NOT provide enough light outside to over power the existing light when shooting at these distances leaving you with some shadows remaining. You might get by with the LSII for a portrait at 3 or 4 feet in late afternoon sunlight. That is why the shots of your wife were better - without the LSII your strobe had more pop ( less difusion though) and did not have the mottled look of the existing lighting.
I have learned of the terrors of mottled lighting several times, so don't feel bad. If you had shot without any flash at all it would have been a lot worse. And the white shirts made it even harder unless you set your exposure with some +EC. Overall for your first outdoor group shot in the chosen setting, I think you did a very credible job. Much better than a snapshot to my eye. And you learned something and will do even better in the future.
For a group that large out of doors, I might have tried to use two strobes - one on camera as the master but less powerful light and one off camera up higher on a light stand that is the stronger than the on camera flash. Some reflectors held low might be usefull also.
I think this has been a very interesting thread and should be considered for a hall of fame shot about out door lighting. I am sure many other readers can profit from this thread also.
I have been dragooned to shoot my niece's wedding in a few weeks - so you all will get a chance to see if I am just all talk about this, or if I can walk the walk also That is why I have been reviewing this thead
Any suggestions about group posing in weddings will be gratefully accepted. My plan is to pick my backgrounds and set my lighting up before I bring in the victims. Will this work?
Comments
Ziggy and Andy for taking the time to respond and to be so encouraging. I'm truly thankful for the Dgrin 'family' and your willlingness to help me out with this (and many other things as well!)
I'm short on time today, as many of us are, but I'll throw some original RAWs up on my smug page and link to them here.
I already boosted the exposure up to two stops in RAW to get them to where they are. I basically know NOTHING about using layers
I did find out something interesting when I re-installed my Phase One C1 LE RAW converter. I really think that LE did a superior job on these shots compared to Raw Shooter and Canon's DPP 1.6. I plan on trying to do them all over again using C1 LE. C1 seems to render the color and sharpness much better and more accurately. I can't stand the mottled look I'm seeing.
Also, as far as post processing advice, I should let you know that I'm using (or have available) the following programs:
Paint Shop Pro 9
Elements 3.0 (with Hidden Elements)
Raw Shooter
Canon DPP 1.6
Phase One C1 LE
So, if something comes to mind using any of the above I'd appreciate it much.
Again, I really want to emphasize how much it means to me to get your input on this and the time it takes to do so. Normally I find it difficult to seek advice, but your gratiousness is making it easier to admit I need it
Well, I'm off to do the 'picnic' thing in a few moments. I'll be back later today.
Thanks again to all,
Mongrel
I'm sure the wizards of Dgrin here will be able to help out. I think there's still some room for improvement using your existing shots. I tried a bit of soft focus and shadow/highlight treatment in Photoshop to get the following.
This was quick and dirty so I didn't spend much time trying to get the color cast just right. You can also use a bit of dodging here and there to lighten up shadows on the subjects.
Erich
Still, I think that the backdrop of the porch onto the house is a nice one, especially if they want the house in...
3 looks like a nice outside spot with enough shade... I would trust shade more then strong 2 AM light... Again I have no clue about 18 people fitting in that area. I don't like the side part on the other side unless you could hide the neigbours with people in your group.
I am reading this thread with a lot of intrest cause I will have groupshot on a 50 anniversary in october, with probably even more then 18 people...
I had no clue about the planning up front, but now I see how that one can make a huge difference and the fact that the shoot will be succesful or not.
Thanks Mongrel for asking the question, and thanks to the others for the answers. I am reading and reading... give us more!!!
http://photocatseyes.net
http://www.zazzle.com/photocatseyes
Bugger bugger, I am way too late here. I had no idea that this thread was going further then I thought, so I missed the actual shoot and more suggestions. This must have been a tremendous job and I must say that I like your setup... Everyone is sharp, no silly faces, no strange poses.
I think you handled it rather well Mongrel. The two red chairs bring in some extra color and add a pleasant touch.
With all the tips going on here, I wonder if I am equipped enough because I have no external flashes. I have my nikon D70, different lenses but that is about it...
My question is as of this moment: Is it possible to do group shots outside without flash or is this an illusion?
Thanks again Mongrel for having started this thread, learning curve is fast and furious here on my side...
Thanks also to all the contributing (I believe they call it) people with their advize.
What happens if after reading a thread like this you sigh and say to self that this is NOT going to work... stick to your earlier promises to self to not do important shots for other people and keep in mind that self is not a pro????
When can you be confident enough to think that you will not ruin it? Guess I will never get there...
http://photocatseyes.net
http://www.zazzle.com/photocatseyes
sheesshhh! What a week
Just stopping back to say 'thanks' again.
I decided to just let the pics fly 'as-is'. I spent about two days (in between a ramped up work schedule and visiting family from Norway that I haven't seen in four years) re-working the pics. Man, my head and eyes hurt.
Well, I WILL be back to answer Photcat's questions and to give a synopsis of what I learned and all that bru-ha-ha.
TO ALL:
Please don't underestimate the value of the Dgrin Community! Protect it, nurture it, and cherish it.
Thanks,
Mongrel
The LSII did NOT provide enough light outside to over power the existing light when shooting at these distances leaving you with some shadows remaining. You might get by with the LSII for a portrait at 3 or 4 feet in late afternoon sunlight. That is why the shots of your wife were better - without the LSII your strobe had more pop ( less difusion though) and did not have the mottled look of the existing lighting.
I have learned of the terrors of mottled lighting several times, so don't feel bad. If you had shot without any flash at all it would have been a lot worse. And the white shirts made it even harder unless you set your exposure with some +EC. Overall for your first outdoor group shot in the chosen setting, I think you did a very credible job. Much better than a snapshot to my eye. And you learned something and will do even better in the future.
For a group that large out of doors, I might have tried to use two strobes - one on camera as the master but less powerful light and one off camera up higher on a light stand that is the stronger than the on camera flash. Some reflectors held low might be usefull also.
I think this has been a very interesting thread and should be considered for a hall of fame shot about out door lighting. I am sure many other readers can profit from this thread also.
I have been dragooned to shoot my niece's wedding in a few weeks - so you all will get a chance to see if I am just all talk about this, or if I can walk the walk also
Any suggestions about group posing in weddings will be gratefully accepted. My plan is to pick my backgrounds and set my lighting up before I bring in the victims. Will this work?
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin