Venting...

MelMcClain

So my husband and I out of the kindness of our hearts agreed to do a wedding shoot for free to a low income couple in May. We stayed with the couple for nine hours, shot over 2200 photos and edited and used around 500 images, allowed free online gallery access for two months, and have given them the same images on disks ALL FOR FREE. We're now getting emails from the brides father inquiring as to why there weren't more photos included! Seriously! What is the appropriate and most tasteful way to reply without hurting our business reputation. I feel that since we've already given so much no more images are needed and that's overstepping our boundaries.

Rob Pauza

I would just tell them you'll fully refund their money at once.

Well... first of all. That was extremely nice of you and you're absolutely right in being frustrated. From my experience, people don't understand how much time and energy it takes after an event. I really do think most people think photographers simply burn their images to disk and hand them over.

It may be beneficial to include a work order of some sort that outlines what services you have provided, hours worked and what you would normally charge per item. That way, at least they would, hopefully, understand the process and therefore appreciate what you have done for them. As far as them wanting more images.... Obviously, you don't want your bad stuff to get out there in public eyes. One thing I do is run my images through a batch naming filter in Lightroom before putting the images on the disk for final delivery. That way, the client will just assume they are getting all the images since there won't be gaps in the file numbering. If it were me, I would simply bite my tongue and give them all the files and be done with it, moving on and learning from the experience. Your reputation will be fine. I wouldn't give it a second thought.

Best wishes,

-Rob Pauza
Rob Pauza Photography

barnyard

Your experience mirrors mine. The biggest headaches/heartaches were the favor jobs. People value what the pay for. They paid nothing and that is the value they placed on your photography.

You did a very good thing and do not let their lack of appreciation get you down. You put a huge deposit in your karma account.

Tom B

elizabeth_Luna

wow that is pretty crazy sorry you have to experience this. I agree with the previous poster tho. Don't let it get you down you did a great deed.

zoomer

Tell them you gave them all the images you kept and processed.
Tell them what a great experience it was working for them and to please keep you in mind for future work.

kdog

Tell them that was the $2,000 Gold Package that you already gave them for free, and that you'd be happy to upgrade to the Platinum package but you'll have to charge them the full $3,000 for it.

elizabeth_Luna

kdog wrote:

Tell them that was the $2,000 Gold Package that you already gave them for free, and that you'd be happy to upgrade to the Platinum package but you'll have to charge them the full $3,000 for it.

wow I like this idea.

sweet caroline

Look, 500 images is enough. That is a pretty typical number of images for a wedding. They may have seen how many you were taking and don't understand that many will be duplicates, or have eyes closed, etc. You could kindly explain this, and let them know you selected the best images to tell the story of the day. Many people just need to be educated on this.

Yes, they are overstepping their bounds.

Caroline

Photog4Christ

kdog wrote:

Tell them that was the $2,000 Gold Package that you already gave them for free, and that you'd be happy to upgrade to the Platinum package but you'll have to charge them the full $3,000 for it.

I agree 100%.

When you give someone something for free, they don't value it. That's why when even the local quick lube place gives something away, they always list it's value. ("FREE TIRE ROTATION WITH OIL CHANGE - $xx.xx value")

Let them know that if they are not satisfied, you will gladly bill them for the services they received and see how quickly they change their minds.

Matthew Saville

MelMcClain wrote:

So my husband and I out of the kindness of our hearts agreed to do a wedding shoot for free to a low income couple in May. We stayed with the couple for nine hours, shot over 2200 photos and edited and used around 500 images, allowed free online gallery access for two months, and have given them the same images on disks ALL FOR FREE. We're now getting emails from the brides father inquiring as to why there weren't more photos included! Seriously! What is the appropriate and most tasteful way to reply without hurting our business reputation. I feel that since we've already given so much no more images are needed and that's overstepping our boundaries.

barnyard wrote:

Your experience mirrors mine. The biggest headaches/heartaches were the favor jobs. People value what the pay for. They paid nothing and that is the value they placed on your photography.

You did a very good thing and do not let their lack of appreciation get you down. You put a huge deposit in your karma account.

Does anybody see a pattern in the industry? Yes, I know that some people ACTUALLY can't afford a $3000-$5000+, *quality* wedding photographer. And yes, I know that some people actually are thrilled and eternally grateful when rendered such a service.

But more and more, brides are just de-valuing photographic services. Like Photog4Christ said. More and more, people in general get the idea in their heads that great pictures come effortlessly, and that most any average joe can bust out the D700 they just bought the other day and rock an entire wedding better than the experienced, skilled photographer who charges "way too much"... UNTIL IT IS TOO LATE!!!

I don't know what to do about this issue, but I really feel like we as beginner, amateur and professional photographers all need to address the issue as often as it comes up, and then some. Every person I meet who has a camera, or who tells me they've been asked if they know someone who shoots, ...I immediately converse with them about just how serious this issue is, that a bride and groom have ONE chance at remembering their wedding day for the rest of their life, and in 20 years it won't matter how much they spent on their limo / cake / dress / DJ etc. etc. if the pictures are mediocre or even terrible...

One thing is for sure- Instead of repeating THIS scenario over and over, and then coming online to try and deal with it after the fact, I really hope that everyone who ever hears this kind of story learns a lesson and either charges money for their services, or refusing the job until they feel worthy of pay. Because unless it is your VERY best friend, you don't owe them squat for free.


=Matt=

Photog4Christ

Most photographers (I am no exception) do not take the time to properly educate the client (or prospective client). Most people think all you do it just press a button and the camera does everything for you.

MelMcClain

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it!

Art Scott

sweet caroline wrote:

Look, 500 images is enough. That is a pretty typical number of images for a wedding. They may have seen how many you were taking and don't understand that many will be duplicates, or have eyes closed, etc. You could kindly explain this, and let them know you selected the best images to tell the story of the day. Many people just need to be educated on this.

Yes, they are overstepping their bounds.

Caroline

agree

haven't read whole thread but this I have to agree with and suggest you follow.

What is really frustrating is when they ask for a particular obsure photo you took to be artsy and thought no one was looking.........

Art Scott

Photog4Christ wrote:

Most photographers (I am no exception) do not take the time to properly educate the client (or prospective client). Most people think all you do it just press a button and the camera does everything for you.

That is because they have their little 29.99 p/s and they get these fantastic photos SOOC (to them fantastic) and have no cluse what photoshop is............

bmoreshooter

RULE of business #1, do not give away your talent for FREE. EVER. Once you do this it becomes expected. "Hey, I know this person that did my wedding for free, i'm sure I can get you a great deal" and when you don't you'll wind up with 2 people pissed at you. Second, 2000 images? Did your camera ever stop? I can understand why they think there should be more. Just tell them the five hundred are all that turned out or were not duplicates. If they want the duplicates that's a whole different problem. (GREEDY) Wouldn't you have had a better time as a guest? The competitiveness of this business is ruining what was once a very highly respected art form.

Cygnus Studios

Maybe I am missing the obvious here, but what were the terms of the contract?

Doing the shoot for free was very nice of you, and obviously some (maybe not this case) would appreciate this. However, even a free shoot requires a contract. Contracts solve these types of problems.

Matthew Saville

bmoreshooter wrote:

RULE of business #1, do not give away your talent for FREE. EVER. Once you do this it becomes expected. "Hey, I know this person that did my wedding for free, i'm sure I can get you a great deal" and when you don't you'll wind up with 2 people pissed at you. Second, 2000 images? Did your camera ever stop? I can understand why they think there should be more. Just tell them the five hundred are all that turned out or were not duplicates. If they want the duplicates that's a whole different problem. (GREEDY) Wouldn't you have had a better time as a guest? The competitiveness of this business is ruining what was once a very highly respected art form.

Some photographers, very talented ones even, can click 5-8K pictures at a wedding. It's just a shooting style! Yes, sometimes it sounds like "spray and pray" but as long as you get the shot and are being courteous during the more silent moments of a ceremony / prayer, it shouldn't matter. You just need to manage your client's expectations.

One of the things I talk about BEFORE the wedding, at our consultation, is how many photos will be delivered. I explain to brides that I capture 1,000-2,000 photos, but will deliver about 500. I explain that, the way I shoot, I'll shoot 2-4 photos in quick succession in order to be sure I capture the exact facial expression I'm looking for. It's that simple! Clients will easily understand that the photos you're deleting are JUST the ones that are totally blurry, or nearly identical to the GOOD photos already delivered. So they're not missing anything, it's just the way you work to get the BEST possible ~500 photos...

=Matt=

cdonovan

The only problem wedding client that I ever ran into was the one that decided it was more beneficial to allow me to clean tup her apartment, rather than, herself or her hubby, or even her friends. To do any "get ready" pictures at all would have included garbage and dirty dishes, pop cans, it was gross. When she complained that we didn't have many from that particular part of the day, I reminded her of what went on during that time of the day.

Ask if there is a particular part of the day, or an event or some small thing that they feel is missing, it may just be one particular photo that is missing. I had a bride ask where the rest of her pictures were once after delivery, turns out that in the many groupings of families I did, I missed editing and including one particular group.

If it's just that they want more pictures because they heard you clicking way more than 500 times, don't feel bad for one moment. After all, I think it's Quality, not Quantity that counts!

MelMcClain

cdonovan wrote:

The only problem wedding client that I ever ran into was the one that decided it was more beneficial to allow me to clean tup her apartment, rather than, herself or her hubby, or even her friends. To do any "get ready" pictures at all would have included garbage and dirty dishes, pop cans, it was gross. When she complained that we didn't have many from that particular part of the day, I reminded her of what went on during that time of the day.

Ask if there is a particular part of the day, or an event or some small thing that they feel is missing, it may just be one particular photo that is missing. I had a bride ask where the rest of her pictures were once after delivery, turns out that in the many groupings of families I did, I missed editing and including one particular group.

If it's just that they want more pictures because they heard you clicking way more than 500 times, don't feel bad for one moment. After all, I think it's Quality, not Quantity that counts!

Wow! That's a heck of a nice deed. I don't think I would have done that.... "come on girl.. march your butt outside because I can't get good lighting in here"...

MelMcClain

bmoreshooter wrote:

RULE of business #1, do not give away your talent for FREE. EVER. Once you do this it becomes expected. "Hey, I know this person that did my wedding for free, i'm sure I can get you a great deal" and when you don't you'll wind up with 2 people pissed at you. Second, 2000 images? Did your camera ever stop? I can understand why they think there should be more. Just tell them the five hundred are all that turned out or were not duplicates. If they want the duplicates that's a whole different problem. (GREEDY) Wouldn't you have had a better time as a guest? The competitiveness of this business is ruining what was once a very highly respected art form.

My magazine editor had scolded me along the same lines. I won't be doing that again obviously for the headache it has caused.

cdonovan

MelMcClain wrote:

Wow! That's a heck of a nice deed. I don't think I would have done that.... "come on girl.. march your butt outside because I can't get good lighting in here"...

Believe me, if it hadn't been a torential downpour outside, I would have had them out there putting their make up on! lol

FlyNavy

kdog wrote:

Tell them that was the $2,000 Gold Package that you already gave them for free, and that you'd be happy to upgrade to the Platinum package but you'll have to charge them the full $3,000 for it.

That quote is spot on!!!

Jeff_Milo

bmoreshooter wrote:

RULE of business #1, do not give away your talent for FREE. EVER. Once you do this it becomes expected.

In this case I agree with not shooting for free, but NEVER say EVER. I do free shoots all the time, but not for standard clients, If a vendor or location calls me I will gladly shoot any thing they want for free, why because they send outside business my way. I am shooting a wedding for a local winery owners daughter for free in the fall, and from this one free wedding I have to date been referred and booked 6 other weddings. Sorry to get off topic of this thread but I have seen a bunch of threads lately talking about not giving away our services when in fact sometimes giving it away can be very profitable.

bmoreshooter

Perhaps "ever" was a bit strong but I was trying to make a point. There are always exceptions to every rule. I guess it's a matter of knowing when to charge.