Inspirational
ShepsMom
Registered Users Posts: 4,319 Major grins
0
ShepsMom
Registered Users Posts: 4,319 Major grins
Comments
Cue: music… …uh oh!
(voice over: ) "…the reason I got into photography…"
Me (thinks) "who gives a damn? ……not me! …click!"
Sorry, but to me pictures are about pictures, and quite honestly I don't care about how or why or when the photographer started taking pictures! It's about how I see the photos, and I don't give a fig about the artsy fartsy imagy cool background stuff; and kill the bloody music for gawd-sake, it's so distracting!!!! Arrrgggghhh!!!
- Wil
you are living up to your self imposed tag line sir!
.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Damned right!
IMNSHO the pictures should stand on their own. If they need text, explanations, music, or apologies then they're not working, and no amount of descriptions, reasons, justifications, excuses, distractions, are going to change that.
- Wil
But he's clearly a showman and he's SELLING it. I think it's a very creative site. He has defined his demographic with the images and choice of music and I'll bet there are few prospective clients he sends to his site, brides or otherwise, who don't wind up hiring him.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
You make a valid point, but my computer is quite old and creaks and groans when faced with having to deal with sound as well as graphics/videos/pop-ups/flash-bangs and whizzos (not that I'm in the market for hiring a photographer).
To be honest I was turned off by his site long before my ancient hardware got anywhere near the meat of his offerings, so I really can't judge how good/bad his pictures may or may not be; bit of a shame (but I still don't care…
Actually, I thought the whole bloody thing somewhat pretentious…
- Wil
I'm going to bet your computer doesn't creak and moan as much as I do every morning
pretentious? absolutely
egotistical? damn yes
do I want to throw my computer across the room because of his music? fuskingaye!
But the guy has moxy and put together a compelling presentation. Hell we're talking about it!
Selling is knowing your market and playing to that market. He's probably doing just fine.
Quality of work? It's good. I'm probably a better photographer but I never spend any time organizing or self-promoting
.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
i have several responses to your comments more for the sake of discussion than for defense. i do find it fascinating to hear what people have to say about my site, be it positive or negative, so i thought this might be a chance to unpack some of the visceral responses y'all had. and perhaps we can get at some larger issues about marketing, branding, web presence, seeling yourself, etc...that is of course, if you're willing
As long as the discussion remains on topic, I'm fine with it.
The first point I'd make is that anyone who is selling and is using just pictures "because they should stand by themselves" isn't going to sell much.
People buy things because of a connection they make with the seller. Whether that's Target or anyone else. And the bond between buyer and seller is more important for a very personal purchase--like a set of photographs. The connection can be perceived ("I like Target because they have good pricing and donate to the local community") or it can be more real (as it would be in hiring a contractor or photographer).
It's clear to me that Wil Davis doesn't get the nuance of marketing oneself.
we call that a preloader. typical feature of a flash based site that has substantial media content. not sure why that would raise the flags...
interestingly enough, a lot of people, particularly brides and couples, want to know who the photographer is. they want to see his passion, his committment, and his vision for his craft. they want to get a sense of who he is and what he is about. afterall, they are going to be spending their entire wedding day with him. the modern bride values relationship and experience. they don't simply want someone to show up and shoot. they value the process and of course they value the end result so much that they are willing to put a little extra time into building a relationship that thereby leads to better, more authentic photography. they want the whole package deal.
obviously, i disagree with you. not just on a personal level, but also at a philosophical level. art is not just about art. about the painting or about the photograph. art is also about the process-the how, the why. and is it about the who. knowing about the who, how, the why makes that body of work even more compelling. of course, the actual individual photos should speak for themselves and should elicit a response without having to prompt it in other non-visual ways. i get that. and i subscribe to that notion. in fact, i have had many a firey debate in my rhetoric class about this very issue.
i think in today's economy & market we can't neglect society's thirst and hunger for authentiicty, for relationship and for vision. i think as photographers we have to pay attention to that. and we have to communicate our views and ideas about that to our clients. in the sea of good photographers, we have to set ourselves apart and the only way to really do that is to be YOU (check out http://fasttrackphotograher.com) and you have to sell yourself. yes, there are some people who just want a photographer who takes pretty pictures. done and done. but some people (quite a few actually) want more. pretty pictures are cliche, mainstream, and safe. i think there are many couples out there are over that, over the old school wedding photography, and want something fresh, modern and authentic.
those are my people. THAT is the market i'm trying to reach. and that is the market that is positively responding to me, my site, my video, and my work...
wil, i am curious tho, what music do you not like? the video music or the opening song on my site? i debated for a while about the music on my mainsite. i've taken it off and people missed it. i've added it on and some people hate it. other's LOVE it. what to do, what do to. also, to appeal to other musical inclinations there are acutally 4 songs in my site's jukebox...
If you offered a way to turn it off, that'd be great. The problem is that you'd lose the VO portion too--for repeat viewers, this might not be a problem.
fair enough. but i was actually referring to the music on my site. the video is going to stay as is because i LOVE it and i have gotten so much positive feedback about it. the music is actually pretty mellow and it think helps move the narrative along.
but as for the music on the site, you can turn it off. but i am not sure people realize that or that they can change the song. it is not terribly intuitive that's for sure.
hmmm.
even I missed that on my visits.
welcome aboard J. glad to see you here and hope to see more of you.
there has been a lot of discussion in other forums about sites using music: yes / no / good / bad - which is why I think the issue has taken on such prominence in this thread.
I like your music choices but I am one who always, regardless of the site, wants an easy on/off select feature for those instances when music or dialogue emanating from your computer is inappropriate.
(ps: I enjoyed your thoughtful responses in the above post)
.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
I agree about wanting easy off/on for the music when I visit a site. Sometimes it's because I want some quiet, sometimes it's because my child is talking to me in one ear and the music is distracting. Of course, I have a handy mute button on my keyboard. I did not find the music on this website obnoxious.
Caroline
Put a small icon--like a volume bar--as a hint maybe? I agree the music is instrumental to the narrative.
Anyhow, I think it's a great example of how to market yourself and it speaks to what I mentioned earlier about making relationships. If I were to call you for something, I would feel I knew at least a little bit about you--enough to know whether your "style" fit mine and so on.
If I hit a site and the music is just obnoxious and i can't turn it down or off then I leave........but most photographers sites are not that way...they are trying to set a mood or project their personality so the client gets to know them a bit before actually meeting them......
The problems lies in the fact that most people, myself included, do not know the proper music to place on a website so they go with what they love to listen to which may be offensive to others...............
I do have a nit.....the font is too small.....I prefer sites that I can read without having to put my jewelers magnifier on to see:D
Just my thoughts
just going to get my BIGMA and now off to play..........
also, i am curious what is it about my site that gave you the impression that i am pretentious or egocentric? did you happen to notice that my brand is built around "you & yours"? you. your story. your wedding. etc.
I don't.
actually I was responding directly to some of Wil's critique and meant as a tongue-in-cheek response...
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
I found the site, i thought it was good, so i posted a link. I don't know this person, thought he inspired me somewhat.
I found some of the comments here are pretty rude and disrespectful.
Wil, i don't know who you are, nor can i see your site, because you have no link, nor do i know if you are a photographer, but geezzz!! You made some really obnoxious comments, no way to treat other fellow photographers. I wonder what goes on behind each of your own backs.
I wonder if i even want to post pictures here at this point.
I'm quiet disappointed, i don't even know what to say....
www.intruecolors.com
Nikon D700 x2/D300
Nikon 70-200 2.8/50 1.8/85 1.8/14.24 2.8
Well, as I mentioned, it slows things down, and hinders the access to the site (especially on an old computer such as mine…)
…fair enough; I hadn't considered the "advertising" aspect of it. I'd not considered the "relationship and experience" side of it either…
Actually, you've just contradicted yourself…
OK, you have to sell yourself; point taken… …I surrender!
Perhaps I'm very old fashioned here, but I honestly find it somewhat difficult to read your text; it might have something to do with your capitalization (or lack thereof) and I was wondering if that is part of the style you're aiming for, and perhaps you might comment on its effectiveness?
I think any music on a web-site has to be used very cautiously, in order to avoid sending the wrong message. I find that it gets in the way (just my opinion); sorry, but that's just how I see it; it smacks of TV advertising (Hey! You NEED THIS! We're selling YOU something! You WILL BUY! You WILL BUY! This is SO COOL!), in the same way as hand-held videos (sick-cam, or lurch-cam) with shots no longer than 1 or 2 seconds do; anyway, be that as it may, if it works for your site then more power to you!
I really didn't mean to be offensive and any thing I might say are just this one person's observations, so my apologies to all those who took my comments the wrong way.
…and by the way, some of my pictures are on http://wildavis.smugmug.com/ - feel free to comment, criticize (constructively) - I have a very thick skin (even for a curmudgeon)
- Wil
No offense. But at some point, the world moves on and there's a new standard. Maybe it's time to upgrade?
How true! …but unfortunately with no current stream of income & many outgoings (food, rent, utilities etc.) a new computer is not even on the horizon at the moment! I'm sure there are other folk in worse situations than me, but your point is well taken…
- Wil
bummer dude. but i do suppose the market i am trying to reach is younger, techy and endowed with high speed internet and speedy computers. macs if they are really cool. :ivar
um, not really. what i was getting at is this: i look at the getty musuem, designed by Richard Meier. and think to myself. damn. what an incredible piece of art. awe-inspiring. it in and of itself says something, it compels me to think about space, about form and about how i interact with it. how i feel. how i respond to the stark contrast of the white limestone against the blue LA sky. his work can stand alone and says something without an explantion. but as an admirer of his work, i then want to know more. so i go to the how, the why, the who and thereby his work is even more compelling. of course, the explanations and history are not necessary but i sure to love 'em.
essentially that is what i was doing with my video. i don't justify my images and tell my viewers what to think about each one. my images themselves i think stand alone. but the me, behind all that...my personality, vision, heart, passion, perspective. that doesn't come out full force in each image, it's there but hidden beneath several layers. so, alas, the video...to go deeper and allow my clients to know the photographER better, not the photographY.
make sense?
i get that. it is definitely unconventional. but i did do it on purpose. why? i think it looks cool from a design perspective and i think it simplies. and i kind of like to break the rules a little bit. once you now the rules, break them, right? i know how and when to capitalize of course, but i don't want to. i guess for me it was another way to be different. every capitalizes everything, so i'm not going to. but ulitmately, it all stemmed from my biz name. i liked the lowercase j because of the dot on top. i then added the period to play off that. so you get j. shipley photography. i sign all my e-mail with "- j. " and then i carried the period motif through the rest of my brand, in my writing style (course, i was writing very stream of consciousness before too), on my site, on my blog, in my emails, on my collatoral. sorry for the really long answer there...
i have found that the music adds to it. it sets the tone. the mood. and adds to the experience. i like it when i go to starbucks and i hear music. even if i don't particuarly love the song, i still feel more at home and happier since it's there. but you're right, music is a toughy...
thank you. of course, criticism and opinions are valuable to everyone, especailly the art world, if they are delievered respectfully, constructively, and for the benefit of all those involved. as a bit of a rhetorician (communcation studies degree here) i can tell you that delivery matters. a lot. that's the hang-up i and perhaps other people were having. well that and the personal insults...
…and by the way, some of my pictures are on http://wildavis.smugmug.com/ - feel free to comment, criticize (constructively) - I have a very thick skin (even for a curmudgeon)
- Wil[/quote]
Oh. And I do hope you'll stick around
+1
J.
i think you've been a real good sport and offered truly insightful responses to the comments here.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Yes, Inspirational.
i found the photography at the core; sweet. (not sweet, look how cute. sweet as in dude; "Sweet".)
man what talent to get these shots... im not sure if the post processing trend will grow old in 10, 20 years but the actual shots are fantasitic.
truly enjoyed looking.
hey, Wil Davis... when i was a kid my grandpa had a 8-track in the truck. well, it broke one day and he just turned off the entire radio never to be turned on again. i never understood why he wouldnt just listen to the radio since the 8-track was broke.... but heres what i learned from him about that.... he never complained, he just turned it off.