The USPS lack of consistency

Khaos

I've ordered prints and have had them arrive within 3 days after getting the email that they were shipped. I've also have had orders not arrive until 10 days after. My sister has also ordered and run into not getting them until almost 2 weeks after getting the email stating they were shipped. She lives in Colombus, OH, so it's not some out of the way city. These are personal orders and not too irritating when it comes to satisfaction, but it also doesn't leave a very positive feeling.

I know smug mug can't control the USPS, but if I decide to let smug mug do the printing and shipping for me for the 15% fee of my profit, and the shipping is very inconsistent, it not only refelects bad on smug mug, but also on me. With me being a new photographer attempting a very difficult business of selling my work for profit, long delays in shipping will not bode well for repeat business or word of mouth satisfaction.

I'm on the verge of moving forward with a web site, business cards, and promotion of myself, and I need to decide soon what method of printing and delivering of my work I will use. I think smug mug offers a great service for the price and I'm more than happy letting smug mug take care of this for the 15% charge, but I need to be assured of consistency.

The other issue is that no warnings are placed on the shipments that they are photos and should not be bent at all. I've had one bent to be fit into my mailbox. Fortunately the pictures were OK, but I'm not willing to risk some 8x10s being OK for a customer.

If anyone else does not use smug mug for purchase, what method are you using? Do you print yourself or have a local printer do the work and you just take care of the shipping? Do you do orders by e-mail only, or do you have an e-commerce page?

Baldy

Hi Khaos,

Ouch, I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble with mail delivery. It's a frustrating problem with no good answer I'm afraid. All the labs try various options and the bottom line is if you offer consumers a choice, 90% of the time they take their chances with regular mail rather than paying for 2nd or 3rd day delivery, and if you don't give them a choice there's hell to pay.

Truth be told, we ship about 200 packages a day by mail and hear about delays maybe once every other day and lost packages less than that. During the Christmas season, our problems with Federal Express were higher than that. When an overnight doesn't make it on time and the customer paid for faster shipping, they're furious and demand a shipping refund from us. FedEx makes it so hard to get one from them it's not worth the effort.

For example, last Christmas I had an overnight of prints shipped to my home. I stayed home to make sure I was here for their delivery, because they were a Christmas gift.

They never came and the notation was "business closed for the holidays." They refused to refund because "the business was closed" when they tried to deliver it.

As far as placing do not bend on the envelope, it doesn't make a difference no matter how big and red you make it. So EZ Prints stopped doing it to save the labor. I protest their decision because we get asked about it and the customer blames us for not putting it there, but they don't like the extra labor I guess.

I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Baldy

ian408

I was lamenting delivery services the other day.

Try this experiment. Send two packages from the same business using FedEx
and UPS. Be sure to pick 3 day delivery on each of them.

For me, UPS might ship overnight from NJ to CA. But then hold the package until
the scheduled delivery date (which might be another 3-5 days). On the other hand,
if FedEx has the bandwidth, I'll get it next day later in the day. All this is info is
available to you via each's tracking software.

I guess it all depends on your definition of "3-5" days

As for the Postal Service? All bets are off until the third class stuff is delivered
Seriously, there are no guarantees with USPS. Me? I've had similar luck with them.
I ordered my ball head from down south and it arrived literally overnight via USPS.
Other things within my own home city can take a week or more. Go figure.

Sorry you're having trouble.

Ian

trump48257

Baldy wrote:

Hi Khaos,

Ouch, I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble with mail delivery. It's a frustrating problem with no good answer I'm afraid. All the labs try various options and the bottom line is if you offer consumers a choice, 90% of the time they take their chances with regular mail rather than paying for 2nd or 3rd day delivery, and if you don't give them a choice there's hell to pay.

Truth be told, we ship about 200 packages a day by mail and hear about delays maybe once every other day and lost packages less than that. During the Christmas season, our problems with Federal Express were higher than that. When an overnight doesn't make it on time and the customer paid for faster shipping, they're furious and demand a shipping refund from us. FedEx makes it so hard to get one from them it's not worth the effort.

For example, last Christmas I had an overnight of prints shipped to my home. I stayed home to make sure I was here for their delivery, because they were a Christmas gift.

They never came and the notation was "business closed for the holidays." They refused to refund because "the business was closed" when they tried to deliver it.

As far as placing do not bend on the envelope, it doesn't make a difference no matter how big and red you make it. So EZ Prints stopped doing it to save the labor. I protest their decision because we get asked about it and the customer blames us for not putting it there, but they don't like the extra labor I guess.

I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Baldy

Baldy,

I would tend to argue with "DO NOT BEND" on the package making a difference. I recieved a package from smugmug on Friday which was bent to fit into a 5"X5" mailbox (this was a 8X10 print). Although I have had issues with things saying do not bend being placed in the box before, usually they aren't if they have the stamp. Here's the kicker though (this is the first item i've ordered from smugmug that did not have "do not bend" on it): I took the package (and the ruined 8 X 10) to my post office, and what did they say? "I can't really do anything about it since it did not say "do not bend" They were going to replace it if it had the label it on it!!! This decision basically cost me $20. I don't really appreciate this. Tell this to EZ prints. I'm sorry to say that until that changes, I won't be ordering anything else from smugmug.

Adam

Andy

trump48257 wrote:

Baldy,

I would tend to argue with "DO NOT BEND" on the package making a difference. I recieved a package from smugmug on Friday which was bent to fit into a 5"X5" mailbox (this was a 8X10 print). Although I have had issues with things saying do not bend being placed in the box before, usually they aren't if they have the stamp. Here's the kicker though (this is the first item i've ordered from smugmug that did not have "do not bend" on it): I took the package (and the ruined 8 X 10) to my post office, and what did they say? "I can't really do anything about it since it did not say "do not bend" They were going to replace it if it had the label it on it!!! This decision basically cost me $20. I don't really appreciate this. Tell this to EZ prints. I'm sorry to say that until that changes, I won't be ordering anything else from smugmug.

Adam

Hi Adam -

I'm terribly sorry this has happened - it's rare enough - and we hate to see it happen. We do however, honor our Guarantee in this case - and so if you'll kindly email help@smugmug.com we'll happily order you a reprint on us, and get it to you as fast as we can. We're supposed to have new packaging coming online soon that should help avoid this problem. No way are you out $20!

Again, our apologies. Please email us with the order number so we can replace it straight away.

All the best,

Baldy

trump48257 wrote:

Baldy,

I would tend to argue with "DO NOT BEND" on the package making a difference. I recieved a package from smugmug on Friday which was bent to fit into a 5"X5" mailbox (this was a 8X10 print). Although I have had issues with things saying do not bend being placed in the box before, usually they aren't if they have the stamp. Here's the kicker though (this is the first item i've ordered from smugmug that did not have "do not bend" on it): I took the package (and the ruined 8 X 10) to my post office, and what did they say? "I can't really do anything about it since it did not say "do not bend" They were going to replace it if it had the label it on it!!! This decision basically cost me $20. I don't really appreciate this. Tell this to EZ prints. I'm sorry to say that until that changes, I won't be ordering anything else from smugmug.

Adam

Ouch, I'm really sorry to hear about that.

Unfortunately, EZ Prints supplies prints to lots of sites like Printroom and Webshots and ourselves and we have really extensive statistics. The do not bend stamp is not statistically correlated with how many are actualy bent. It may, however, influence claims at the post office, I don't know.

In actual fact, the packaging that does best is thin like Kodak uses that allows the prints to be bent without creasing them. But customer perception is the thin packaging does not protect their prints.

We compare notes with lots of labs and unfortunately it's a really tough problem.

Shay Stephens

Shipping delays and inconsistant times are a fact of life. The answer is to pad your delivery times to take such variables into account. I personally set the expectation at 2-3 weeks for delivery of any print. Most are pleased when the print shows up much sooner than that ;-)

If they need it faster than that, then they need to be aware that they will have to choose faster shipping or you may have to do the printing locally for stuff that really needs to be rushed.

Techman1

Two things along this same line:

(1) I received an email from a customer today and they too had their photos bent by the USPS. They suggested that a "Do Not Bend" or "Photos Enclosed" stamp be put on the shipping envelope. I emailed Help@Smugmug.com right away and was assured that a new order would be placed right away and that this issue has been addressed with EZPrints numerous times. I was pleased with the fast response of Smugmug support and hope that EZPrints makes this change soon.

(2) I wish there was a way of knowing how our customers placed their orders. This would include shipping (overnight, 2 day, etc.) and I would like to know how the photos were cropped. Is either of these something we might see in the near future?

Thanks in advance. Again, I've only had positive feedback on the most part from my customers and I'm hoping to continue down that same road. The above items will only help us all do a better job of providing services to our clients.

Regards,
Fred

Andy

Techman1 wrote:

Two things along this same line:

(1) I received an email from a customer today and they too had their photos bent by the USPS. They suggested that a "Do Not Bend" or "Photos Enclosed" stamp be put on the shipping envelope. I emailed Help@Smugmug.com right away and was assured that a new order would be placed right away and that this issue has been addressed with EZPrints numerous times. I was pleased with the fast response of Smugmug support and hope that EZPrints makes this change soon.

(2) I wish there was a way of knowing how our customers placed their orders. This would include shipping (overnight, 2 day, etc.) and I would like to know how the photos were cropped. Is either of these something we might see in the near future?

Thanks in advance. Again, I've only had positive feedback on the most part from my customers and I'm hoping to continue down that same road. The above items will only help us all do a better job of providing services to our clients.

Regards,
Fred

Hi Fred - thanks for taking the time to tell us this. It's great feedback, and also some great suggestions. I'll make sure that we consider them.

All the best,

Andy

Fred I made a copy of your post and put it in the features request thread also.

ian408

Baldy wrote:

In actual fact, the packaging that does best is thin like Kodak uses that allows the prints to be bent without creasing them. But customer perception is the thin packaging does not protect their prints.

I have a rather small post box and it's amazing the number of things that
get wedged in. If I've been out of town, the stack can be large.

Rarely does anything get bent but it does get rolled. So a thin package that
is rollable sounds like a great idea compared to one that says "Do Not Bend"
and is just to make it fit.

Ian

mercphoto

Screw EZ-Prints
Here's how I see it Baldy. I get the feeling you guys would agree with this. While I do believe that putting "do not bend" has no statistical correlation to packages not getting bent anyway (let's face it, the USPS is not technically a government entity, but they have all the hallmarks of one: poor bang for the buck), it does make our customers feel better (we did all we could) and makes them go straight to the Post Office for a refund. At least they get pestered and their literacy rates questioned.

Its rather simple. EZ-Prints is not putting on these stickers to save themselves money and hassle. But when a print does get bent, the photographer and Smugmug take the blame. Not a good trade. I suggest a lobby to change their practices.

Shay Stephens

I ship out lots of prints in cardboard mailers, and I agree that adding the sticker does nothing. There are some good and some bad mail handlers out there. The cost of replacing some infrequently bent prints is a lot less (for me) than putting a sticker on every mailer that leaves the office.

A false sense of security is worse than no security at all. Save some time and money and just reprint when there is damage. As the photographer, I will always get the blame, and the responsibility will always be on me to make sure the customer gets the prints they need. You gotta accept that and just move on ;-)

And for the record, the only prints I have had bent by gorilla mail handlers has had a do not bend label affixed.

mercphoto wrote:

Here's how I see it Baldy. I get the feeling you guys would agree with this. While I do believe that putting "do not bend" has no statistical correlation to packages not getting bent anyway (let's face it, the USPS is not technically a government entity, but they have all the hallmarks of one: poor bang for the buck), it does make our customers feel better (we did all we could) and makes them go straight to the Post Office for a refund. At least they get pestered and their literacy rates questioned.

Its rather simple. EZ-Prints is not putting on these stickers to save themselves money and hassle. But when a print does get bent, the photographer and Smugmug take the blame. Not a good trade. I suggest a lobby to change their practices.

Andy

Shay Stephens wrote:

Save some time and money and just reprint when there is damage.

Exactly.

Over 2,000,000 prints now - and well, you can compute the statistics of bent / damaged / folded prints vs. prints that arrive safely (it's a really, really, really small percentage that are damaged). SmugMug's Guarantee covers the bent prints, and we do exactly as you say, Shay.

mercphoto

Shay Stephens wrote:

A false sense of security is worse than no security at all. Save some time and money and just reprint when there is damage. As the photographer, I will always get the blame

While that is a very practicial solution I find it hard to accept from a pragmatic standpoint. Yes there are some very bad mail handlers out there. The next question is why do they still have their job if they are bad at their job? Also, if you put on "do not bend", and the USPS bends it, I'm not sure why the customer would still blame the photographer. I've had one print get bent and they blamed me for not putting on a "do not bend" notice. If I had had one they would have blamed the post office instead (their words).

From a practical stand-point Shay you are correct. It just bugs me. :shrug

flyingpylon

Couldn't they just print "do not bend" on the envelope to begin with? Then there's no need for an extra sticker or stamp. Might take a while to get through their existing inventory, but maybe it would help in the long run.

Or maybe "do not bend" could be printed on the mailing label?

Andy

flyingpylon wrote:

Couldn't they just print "do not bend" on the envelope to begin with?

That's what's going to happen. It takes some time to get the new packaging online at the printer. I've just been speaking with EZPrints... stay tuned...

DavidTO

Andy wrote:

That's what's going to happen. It takes some time to get the new packaging online at the printer. I've just been speaking with EZPrints... stay tuned...

Yeah, I totally get the logic that it doesn't do any good with the USPS, but I also get that whether or not it has a positive effect on how the mail's handled, it would most likely make the customer FEEL better to see it.

digital faerie

Here's an interesting note:

I had to contact my local p.o. to see what was up with 2 orders I had received e-mails about that were shipped on the 19th and the 21st.

Even though I chose "express" in the cart, and received an order confirmation that also said "shipped via express", these orders are classified as "priority mail" which is a big difference.

I wonder if this is an ezprints issue?

Andy

digital faerie wrote:

I wonder if this is an ezprints issue?

Doesn't matter - it's an issue and I'll see what we can do to make it clearer. Thanks D.F.

digital faerie

Andy wrote:

Doesn't matter - it's an issue and I'll see what we can do to make it clearer. Thanks D.F.

now that would be very much appreciated! Merry Christmas to you and yours!

Andy

digital faerie wrote:

now that would be very much appreciated! Merry Christmas to you and yours!

One of the big problems is that EZP can use the P.O., and / or Fedex for deliveries that we're presently calling "express" on the checkout cart. Bear in mind, that the options, currently, are:

• Economy – delivery by the US Postal Service First Class Mail, delivery time of between 2-14 days, and is NOT trackable.
• Express – delivery by the US Postal Service Priority Mail (normally), delivery time of between 2-4 days.
• 2nd Business Day and Next Business Day – delivery by FedEx, unless delivery address is a PO Box or APO address.