starting overdue backup system

rwmj

I have recently purchased a 320 GB pocket media drive for my HP and started to do regular backups with the HP provided Backup MYPC software. My plan was to do weekly system backups and then daily incremental backups until the next full backup. I am new to the process but this seems to be ONE more or less conventional approach. Am I correct in thinking that this is a sound strategy or should I be considering other options? Is there other software that others would strongly recommend in place of BUMP? I know there are many options and it is a bit daunting to weigh all the different possibilities.

My first full system backup was almost 200 GB so I realize I can't have a two version set of backup files on this single drive. I was thinking I would get another pocket media drive but 500GB this time. Again other suggestions appreciated.

Thanks for the feedback.

Roy

Wil Davis

YMMV, but just about all the fancy-dancy backup software I've ever used is useless when you lose your system (including the backup software), and you're left with a brand new (installed from scratch) system without the backup software, but all your backups are in a proprietary format... :cry

I use robocopy¹; easiest, fastest², and most reliable (see above)

- Wil

¹ Robust Copy for Windows

² try doing the same thing with Windoze Explorer when the system has Norton or whatever AV software installed; ("glacial" doesn't even begin to describe it…)

geralds34

SyncBack - try the free version
The Paid SE does incrementals

cmason

This is unfortunately complicated, and the only system, in my experience, that does this simply is Mac Time Machine.

For Windows, here is what I usually do. As another said, the problem with backup solutions is that they work great when you have an issue with files missing or you want to go back to a previous version of a file. But in the event of a hard drive failure, they can be problematic, and the software must be run from a special disk ( you do have a boot disk, right?) And if you have ever looked over all those backup tapes, you will quickly understand what proprietary formats mean. Using some backup software means you MUST use the backup software to get your files back, even if they now charge for it.

My suggestion is to do two things: 1)make a backup image of your entire harddrive, 2) backup your critical files.

The image is simply a complete copy of your harddrive the way it is today. If your drive fails, you won't have to reinstall Windows,etc, you will simply return the harddrive to exactly the way it is today. If you do an image, and then take incrementals or replace it once a month, you are always 30 mins away from full working condition of your harddrive.

Aside from the image, I also backup my critical files, which for me are my documents and my photos. I have other ways of preserving my bookmarks etc. I do not include my photos in an image, because they are all stored in an external drive, and because I back them up separately. I back these files up with a simple copy, literally copying these files to a separate hardrive (can be same as the one the image is on). In case of a failure to my external drive, I have a complete backup of these files, that are not mixed with everything else. And if I accidentally delete a file, it is simple to get it back. This also serves to reduce the size of the image itself.

In case of harddrive failure, it is a simple matter of restoring the image, and copying my critical files back to their folders.

For images I recommend two FREE products: Macrium Reflect Free or Clonezilla. Macrium is more 'windows friendly' of the two. Drive Image XML is also very good, however I find it a bit more fussy.

For critical file backup, I simply copy from one drive to another, making exact duplicates of My Documents and Photos. But if you prefer some automation, I highly recommend the free Microsoft Synctoy 2.0.

Oh and as usual, I always recommend one of the off-site backup tools as well, since you can never have too much backup. These help when something really serious happens, like a house fire, that can destroy your PC and all your backups. I recommend Mozy

Good Luck!

rwmj

cmason wrote:

This is unfortunately complicated, and the only system, in my experience, that does this simply is Mac Time Machine.

For Windows, here is what I usually do. As another said, the problem with backup solutions is that they work great when you have an issue with files missing or you want to go back to a previous version of a file. But in the event of a hard drive failure, they can be problematic, and the software must be run from a special disk ( you do have a boot disk, right?) And if you have ever looked over all those backup tapes, you will quickly understand what proprietary formats mean. Using some backup software means you MUST use the backup software to get your files back, even if they now charge for it.

My suggestion is to do two things: 1)make a backup image of your entire harddrive, 2) backup your critical files.


The image is simply a complete copy of your harddrive the way it is today. If your drive fails, you won't have to reinstall Windows,etc, you will simply return the harddrive to exactly the way it is today. If you do an image, and then take incrementals or replace it once a month, you are always 30 mins away from full working condition of your harddrive.

Aside from the image, I also backup my critical files, which for me are my documents and my photos. I have other ways of preserving my bookmarks etc. I do not include my photos in an image, because they are all stored in an external drive, and because I back them up separately. I back these files up with a simple copy, literally copying these files to a separate hardrive (can be same as the one the image is on). In case of a failure to my external drive, I have a complete backup of these files, that are not mixed with everything else. And if I accidentally delete a file, it is simple to get it back. This also serves to reduce the size of the image itself.

In case of harddrive failure, it is a simple matter of restoring the image, and copying my critical files back to their folders.

For images I recommend two FREE products: Macrium Reflect Free or Clonezilla. Macrium is more 'windows friendly' of the two. Drive Image XML is also very good, however I find it a bit more fussy.

For critical file backup, I simply copy from one drive to another, making exact duplicates of My Documents and Photos. But if you prefer some automation, I highly recommend the free Microsoft Synctoy 2.0.

Oh and as usual, I always recommend one of the off-site backup tools as well, since you can never have too much backup. These help when something really serious happens, like a house fire, that can destroy your PC and all your backups. I recommend Mozy

Good Luck!

Many thanks to you Cmason and to Will and Gerald for your feedback.
Will have to do more consideration of my process
but I do have a few new questions
is image software different than backup software?
(I get the point that backup software is only reliable if you have a working system to use it with, but how does the 'imaging' software solve that problem, or does it?)
if you can restore the image why do you need to also copy the critical files back to their folders?

Roy

cmason

rwmj wrote:

Many thanks to you Cmason and to Will and Gerald for your feedback.
Will have to do more consideration of my process
but I do have a few new questions
is image software different than backup software?
(I get the point that backup software is only reliable if you have a working system to use it with, but how does the 'imaging' software solve that problem, or does it?)
if you can restore the image why do you need to also copy the critical files back to their folders?

Roy

Yes an image and a backup are different. An image takes a bit for bit copy of your harddrive,at a low, geek level. An image does not care what is on the harddrive, it just creates a copy. It does not look at or even know about folders and files, it just copies what is on the hardrive. In this way, you can take an image and put it on a new harddrive and have an exact copy of your PC. This is useful if you have dual boots set up, like say Linux and Windows.

A backup is making copies of files and folders. It has an understanding of the operating system formats and copies the files or folders. To restore a file or folder, you need your operating system to be on a system. Many backup software first require you to have a working copy of windows to be able to restore, some do not. A Windows backup tool knows only about Windows on the machine, so if you also have Linux, no backups will be made (ok probably not a concern of yours!)

One difference can be seen in this example: Lets say that you get a really nasty virus on your PC. A Backup of your files will mean that your precious files are preserved, but if you restore, the Backup will overwrite the files on your PC that are on your backup, but won't touch the new files, which may be those with the virus.

An image will wipe the drive and restore your PC to the exact condition it was when you made the image, which would include the LACK of the virus.

Now if you wipe your harddrive and restore from your backup (assuming you can do this), then you will also get rid of the virus. In practice, assuming your backup solution can restore the full harddrive, there is little difference between the two, but typically images are far faster to make, and restore. Incremental backups of system files mean thousands of files need to be backed up everytime, since there are thousands of changes to system files, which lead to larger and longer backups.

I prefer to do images separately, since I image only monthly, but backup daily. If you backup your entire hardrive daily, you can expect this to take quite a long time. Backups of my key files takes minutes, as the bulk do not change often.

rwmj

cmason wrote:

Yes an image and a backup are different. An image takes a bit for bit copy of your harddrive,at a low, geek level. An image does not care what is on the harddrive, it just creates a copy. It does not look at or even know about folders and files, it just copies what is on the hardrive. In this way, you can take an image and put it on a new harddrive and have an exact copy of your PC. This is useful if you have dual boots set up, like say Linux and Windows.

A backup is making copies of files and folders. It has an understanding of the operating system formats and copies the files or folders. To restore a file or folder, you need your operating system to be on a system. Many backup software first require you to have a working copy of windows to be able to restore, some do not. A Windows backup tool knows only about Windows on the machine, so if you also have Linux, no backups will be made (ok probably not a concern of yours!)

One difference can be seen in this example: Lets say that you get a really nasty virus on your PC. A Backup of your files will mean that your precious files are preserved, but if you restore, the Backup will overwrite the files on your PC that are on your backup, but won't touch the new files, which may be those with the virus.

An image will wipe the drive and restore your PC to the exact condition it was when you made the image, which would include the LACK of the virus.

Now if you wipe your harddrive and restore from your backup (assuming you can do this), then you will also get rid of the virus. In practice, assuming your backup solution can restore the full harddrive, there is little difference between the two, but typically images are far faster to make, and restore. Incremental backups of system files mean thousands of files need to be backed up everytime, since there are thousands of changes to system files, which lead to larger and longer backups.

I prefer to do images separately, since I image only monthly, but backup daily. If you backup your entire hardrive daily, you can expect this to take quite a long time. Backups of my key files takes minutes, as the bulk do not change often.

C

So you image monthly and backup daily but when you write 'backup daily'
do you mean a simple copy or the use of backup software
you had written previously that you do a simple copy of critical files
if you do daily 'backups' with a simple copy how do you identify only the new files needing to be copied?


Also regarding the infrequent imaging copies
Is there any reason to save the previous image until the latest image has been completed so that you have a fall back image?

Appreciate your time on this.

Roy

geralds34

Do you need identical hardware to restore an image?
If the HDD dies, and you replaced with different size/manufacture, would the image restore be bootable?

cmason

rwmj wrote:

C

So you image monthly and backup daily but when you write 'backup daily'
do you mean a simple copy or the use of backup software
you had written previously that you do a simple copy of critical files
if you do daily 'backups' with a simple copy how do you identify only the new files needing to be copied?

Yes, I backup using the simple copy/replace method, rather than a tool. On the Mac I have an Automator script I wrote, and on the PC I use SyncToy, both of which make simple copies. I literally replace the files on the backup harddrive. My theory is that if I deleted on my main drive, I no longer want them. If I delete by mistake, well, thats what the backup is for

rwmj wrote:

Also regarding the infrequent imaging copies
Is there any reason to save the previous image until the latest image has been completed so that you have a fall back image?

Appreciate your time on this.

Roy

I suppose, though I think the chance of a failure during or between the time I erase and create a new image is extremely remote. The products I mention usually create an image that is much smaller than the actual harddrive, since they do things to eliminate blank space in the image, while restoring it in the restore function. So in practice my images are often a quarter of the size of the harddrive, so there has never been a reason to delete old images until I need the space. I usually have two or three on at a time. My main drive is 250GB, and I backup to 500GB drives.

rwmj wrote:

Do you need identical hardware to restore an image?
If the HDD dies, and you replaced with different size/manufacture, would the image restore be bootable?

You do not need identical brands, or even connection type (SATA/USB) but you do need a drive that is at least as large as the one you are replacing. So far, call me lucky, I have not had a main drive failure. I have restored the main drive several times on my Windows PC, so in this case I was restoring to an identical drive. (I do this when things slow down, its like reinstalling only way faster, as my image was taken shortly after a full install with my apps, and yes Windows update is a pain) Obviously, I keep my 'virgin' image around.

By the way, for the record, on the Mac I use CarbonCopyCloner, and Time Machine as well.

sixdaemonbag

No matter how you choose to back your data up, make sure a copy of it ends up OFF SITE. having backups on a spare usb drive is great, if all that happens is your drive fails at home. But if a real disaster strikes and you lose your house, having that usb drive sitting there doesn't help at all.

Get 2 drives. make 2 copies. Take one of the drives to a friend's house (you might also leave your install media over there and go get it in the event you need it) This way you have 2 copies. Every week or so, take your other drive over to your friend's house, plug them both in, synch your changes for the week, and take one home. This keeps you current, gives a good reason to spend more time visiting with your friend, and covers you in the event of the unthinkable at home.

xxclixxx

SyncToy is Free:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c26efa36-98e0-4ee9-a7c5-98d0592d8c52&DisplayLang=en

It's simple to use. You create a "Folder Pair". You pick the left one (originals) the right one (backup).

Then you tell it what you want to do:

• "Synchronize" makes changing either folder happen to the other folder.
• "Echo" means everything on the "left" folder happens to the "right"
• "Contribute" means new & updated files in "left" goto "right". But deleting a file does not delete it on "right".

I personally use Contribute for my vidoes, because I want to edit them while on my PC with faster drives, but have them permanently on my ReadyNAS Pro. ***BUT*** The ReadyNAS Pro has X-RAID2 and is backed up to Amazon S3. So in my case they are backed up. If you are using a regular external drive and you delete it off your PC, you then only have one copy.

Once you have SyncToy setup the way you want, goto "Help" then "Learn how to Schedule". It'll show you how with Vista / XP. Then you can have it automatically run so you don't forget.

xxclixxx

Oh yeah and it's not proprietary or anything like that. It's just copying the files. It'll only copy the ones that have changed too not the entire folder each time ;-)

Art Scott

rwmj wrote:

I have recently purchased a 320 GB pocket media drive for my HP and started to do regular backups with the HP provided Backup MYPC software. My plan was to do weekly system backups and then daily incremental backups until the next full backup. I am new to the process but this seems to be ONE more or less conventional approach. Am I correct in thinking that this is a sound strategy or should I be considering other options? Is there other software that others would strongly recommend in place of BUMP? I know there are many options and it is a bit daunting to weigh all the different possibilities.

My first full system backup was almost 200 GB so I realize I can't have a two version set of backup files on this single drive. I was thinking I would get another pocket media drive but 500GB this time. Again other suggestions appreciated.

Thanks for the feedback.

Roy

I started out like this , I was using BACK UP NOW....it was great....using re-writable disks it would tell me which dis to start the new back up with all was good....then the little ol HP died and the system back up was useless with the new computer....
So now all my software is also burned to 3 different disks stored in various places out side my home.....
My photos are stores on a total of 4 drives (1st is almost 500gb per drive and new set is working on 1tb drives).....I use a variation of Scott Kelbys archiving method outlined in LR2 for photogs.....all my photos are store on 1 disk in 1 folder and then I do a drag and drop every couple of weeks to the other 3 drives....this is slow but it is also as close to fool proof as i can seem to get as all my work is stored as if it is the original copy.....my labeling system is by date taken so my #1 drive is named orignal #1 from Date to Date....then the copies are copy #1A,1B and 1C and these will be changed out in approx 4 years as the warranties come to and end.......will buy 4 at a time and copy over to the new drives.....it iwll be a vicious cycle but it keep drives and photo files current.

When I do a drag and drop Windows asks if I want to over write these files and I just over write everything if I do not want to sit and watch the copying happen..........

Then of course all my final work is archived on SmugMug...........if all of my drives go belly up then I at least have my final original jps that can still be printed and sold......................

There is another company out there that has unlimited storage{ MOZY } also but they allow any and all file types (data, mp3, tiff, raw etc etc.....) I think for around $5/month and at $60/yr that is way cheaper than buying new hard drives.........

xxclixxx

Oh yeah for online backups I use JungleDisk. It uploads to Amazon S3 and you only pay for what you use.

I tried some of the "unlimited" ones but found that they take longer to upload (thus, you are limited because they make sure you can only upload so much) and some don't let you backup off external drives. It also doesn't make sense business wise to have unlimited space. Because at some point they'll lose money. And usually there is a clause that states if you use too many resources they can ask you to leave.

Smugmug can get away with it because they also get % from prints, so the more you upload theoretically they more orders should come in. Notice they charge if you want to backup other files in SmugVault ;-)