Gettysburg July 4 2009

pathfinder · July 29, 2009

Before I ran off to Toroweap, Nightingale and I spent several days at the re-enactment at Gettysburg.

The participants were quite interesting, as well as informative. I captured a few interesting visages, I think. These are all candid snapshots, not posed work.

Robert E Lee....

US Grant

A widow - a common sight in 1863

A Rebel cavalryman

Another Rebel cavalryman

Avoid the Draft!

Comments and criticisms strongly encouraged!:thumb

While I shot tons of cannon firing and cavalry charges, these are the images I like the best.

Nikolai · July 29, 2009

Jim,
while I do like the pics, what I applaud the most is your self-restaint. I typically end up with hundreds of images from the reenactment (and ours are tiny compared to what you got), and I say quite a lot of them decent if not good... Simply selecting half a dozen out of 2-3K is a truly herculian effort

pathfinder · July 29, 2009

Much of the battle scenes are all in the early afternoon light, and the vantage points were less than stellar. I liked these images though, as they seemed in character to my eye.

I got tons of statues, as well, but they are of little interest unless you are exploring the battlefield itself, I suspect.

adbsgicom · July 29, 2009

Nice images. I like the first Rebel Calvaryman. His expression fits the uniform and mood of Gettysburgh. RE Lee also looks very contemplative, and its a wonderful profile (IMO).

Richard · July 30, 2009

Lots of character in these. I especially like both of the rebels--they really look the part.

bdcolen · July 30, 2009

Very nicely done. I would, however, prefer to see them all in black and white, as having them in color almost suggests movie stills, rather than the reality of Gettysburg. But the shots themselves are terrific.

pathfinder · July 30, 2009

BD,

Thank you for your comments. I value them a great deal.

I knew that some viewers might prefer these in B&W, or sepia monotone, or greyscale of some kind, and I actually have a number of them, including some of these images, in greyscale type formats.

But I felt they lacked the impact that I see in these color images. The ruddy, sunburned faces were a strong part of the image to my eyes. My opinion only, of course. I stood in the sun all day long at Gettysburg, so we all had red, sunburned faces. Maybe that influenced me. But I am sure the soldiers at Gettysburg had deeply lined, sunburned faces that July in 1863, as well.

I will work up a few, and see if I can make them acceptable to those folks seeing in monochrome.

jeffreaux2 · July 30, 2009

Before BD's call for BW I had given some thought to whether these should be monotones or not...and decided that it could really go either way....

While the "real" historic imagery that we have all seen from this era can be associated with monotones, the monotones are actually a false representation of what those folks who experienced that era saw. THEY saw the real deal every bit as sharp and saturated as depicted here...and so I caught myself thinking about what it must have been like to have lived that...then....and in crystal reality rather than through the limitations...weaknesses...of the photographic technology at that time. On the other hand.....there is also something to be said about the...patina...and "look" that technology produced.

In any event...

Of these posted I think the widow is my least favorite. I think there is too much sky above her...and maybe a bit more light on her face would have pushed her up on my favorites list?

The shots of "Grant" and the two calvarymen are excellent by any standard....and I especially like the first of those two. A quick study of it shows it to be a rather tricky exposure....trying to tame the harsh sun on his hand....yet give enough exposure for the shaded face....and contending with jet black hair. I think a slight crop from the bottom to remove the bit of sky under his right arm would be an improvement....to help the eye not to pick up on that brighter spot down there. The second would benifit by cloning out the OOF stuff (RV?) in the background.

"Avoid The Draft" is also a pretty cool shot, but it would be better for me without the woman in modern dress in the background.

Thanks for sharing

bdcolen · July 30, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

BD,
I stood in the sun all day long at Gettysburg, so we all had red, sunburned faces. Maybe that influenced me. But I am sure the soldiers at Gettysburg had deeply lined, sunburned faces that July in 1863, as well.
.

You're right of course; they would have been suffering from awful sunburn - at least the new recruits would have, and their faces would be powder-blackened and filthy. The images are both valid, and strong, as is. I think my issue is that as this is a reenactment, and as there was no color photography (or photography during the battle for that matter

) I think of these scenes in black and white, and so when I see strong color images such as these, I think movie. But they still work - particularly the portraits of grant and Lee - the Lee one is particularly strong.

pathfinder · July 30, 2009

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Before BD's call for BW I had given some thought to whether these should be monotones or not...and decided that it could really go either way....

While the "real" historic imagery that we have all seen from this era can be associated with monotones, the monotones are actually a false representation of what those folks who experienced that era saw. THEY saw the real deal every bit as sharp and saturated as depicted here...and so I caught myself thinking about what it must have been like to have lived that...then....and in crystal reality rather than through the limitations...weaknesses...of the photographic technology at that time. On the other hand.....there is also something to be said about the...patina...and "look" that technology produced.

In any event...

Of these posted I think the widow is my least favorite. I think there is too much sky above her...and maybe a bit more light on her face would have pushed her up on my favorites list?

The shots of "Grant" and the two calvarymen are excellent by any standard....and I especially like the first of those two. A quick study of it shows it to be a rather tricky exposure....trying to tame the harsh sun on his hand....yet give enough exposure for the shaded face....and contending with jet black hair. The second would benifit by cloning out the OOF stuff (RV?) in the background.

"Avoid The Draft" is also a pretty cool shot, but it would be better for me without the woman in modern dress in the background.

Thanks for sharing

Jeff, thanks for your specific remarks.

The widow so impressed me, that I ran almost 300 yards uphill to shoot her, as she was wandering across The Wheat Field in the National Park. I admired the grit it took to wear that black satin dress in the hot summer sun. But I agree, that the photo does not work as well as I had envisioned when I shot it. I debated cropping the sky more, as you suggest, and think now that I should have done so. I also agree that her face needs to be less dark to call the viewer's eye to it. I loved the black dress, but the image over all does not sing, does it? Not sure how to make it a lot better, either.

I see the OOF background in the blonde Rebel cavalryman, just didn't think it was that identifiable. It could be more OOF. Good call.

You noticed one other factor I became very aware of, that those large brimmed hats create splendid shadows on their faces in the bright sunshine unless you are very careful, or can add a little touch of fill flash, but not so much that the viewer can spot it.

"Avoid the Draft" was the result of a dozen frames, more or less, of trying to capture the flag blowing in the wind. I was so captivated by trying to capture the flag so that it could be displayed well, that I missed the woman in the shorts, entirely. I just loved the sign - Avoid the Draft - Volunteer! And thousands did just that!

I appreciate the time and effort it takes to post such specific, significant criticisms, so I thank you again.

jeffreaux2 · July 30, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

Jeff, thanks for your specific remarks.

The widow so impressed me, that I ran almost 300 yards uphill to shoot her, as she was wandering across The Wheat Field in the National Park. I admired the grit it took to wear that black satin dress in the hot summer sun. But I agree, that the photo does not work as well as I had envisioned when I shot it. I debated cropping the sky more, as you suggest, and think now that I should have done so. I also agree that her face needs to be less dark to call the viewer's eye to it. I loved the black dress, but the image over all does not sing, does it? Not sure how to make it a lot better, either.

"Avoid the Draft" was the result of a dozen frames, more or less, of trying to capture the flag blowing in the wind. I was so captivated by trying to capture the flag so that it could be displayed well, that I missed the woman in the shorts, entirely. I just loved the sign - Avoid the Draft - Volunteer! And thousands did just that!

I appreciate the time and effort it takes to post such specific, significant criticisms, so I thank you again.

It's entirely possible that the widow could be improved via a different conversion strategy....or.....combining a couple different conversions (one being a curves adjustment for her skin tones) via masks. Ive had some success at this in the past and while it is time consuming, it may be worth the effort if it would more closely resemble your initial vision.

For "Avoid the Draft".....it is a funny story!!! I think the feet under the flag could be cloned out simply enough. The woman in the bg ....maybe.....but it wouldnt hurt to desaturate her to blend a bit better with the background. These things are nearly impossible to avoid at such public events. Given some extra time in PP though I bet you could get those folks outta there. The wind is carrying the flag nicely!

rwells · July 30, 2009

Jim,

Looks like you did a very nice job with handling the wide exposure latitude, from the shadows created by the hats/hoods to the bright sky.

I like Grant especially. Looks as if there were something reflecting light back up under his hat here.

Good job & thanks for posting these

pathfinder · July 30, 2009

I promised that I would try a few of these in B&W ala BD/s Tri-X Rx -- Channel mixer Red 43, Green 34, Blue 23 Unsharp Mask 15-50- 0 and then a curve or two to taste.

The profile of Robert E Lee,

But I prefer this one with the gesture

I like Grant better in color I think

And yet this frame of Grant seems to work in B&W

I think this rendition of the widow is marginally better

But the Rebel cavalryman was better in color

Anyone agree, disagree, or think I am wasting my time?

Elaine · July 30, 2009

I like these a lot. And I think the widow has been more than marginally improved!
I can see why you liked the color versions, and I did too, but I also really like these in this b&w conversion. If pressed, I may say I like the b&w better, although I do really like the colors in the shots of Grant and the first cavalryman.

And going to a reenactment has now become one of my goals!

pathfinder · July 30, 2009

Thanks for commenting, Elaine.

I think it will be interesting to hear how folks react to the choice between color and B&W also. I think it is not a simple one, or the other also.

jeffreaux2 · July 30, 2009

Aaaah the widow has indeed come to life!!! Nice redo!!!

I REALLY like the second shot of Lee.....and absolutely DONT show it to me in color!!!

Seriously.....the monotone vs color decision is tough with photographs of this nature...and I dont envy you having to decide. Luckily though...in this digital age you can have your cake and eat it too!

rutt · July 31, 2009

Jeez, BD will use any excuse to prefer B&W, but I think these are gorgeous either way. Lee is very nice in both color and B&W. I agree with you that your color shot of Grant looks better in color, but I think that might be because the B&W lacks contrast. BD's conversion technique isn't the best way to enhance contrast if it's not there in the original.

Anyway, these are really really nice images.

If you haven't already read it, there is a fantastic book about civil war reenactors: Tony Horwitz's Confederates in the Attic. A great fun and serious book.

pathfinder · July 31, 2009

rutt wrote:

Jeez, BD will use any excuse to prefer B&W, but I think these are gorgeous either way. Lee is very nice in both color and B&W. I agree with you that your color shot of Grant looks better in color, but I think that might be because the B&W lacks contrast. BD's conversion technique isn't the best way to enhance contrast if it's not there in the original.

Anyway, these are really really nice images.

If you haven't already read it, there is a fantastic book about civil war reenactors: Tony Horwitz's Confederates in the Attic. A great fun and serious book.

Thanks, John, I take that as high praise.

Grant's image is rather low contrast as I was taking advantage of the tent flap over head that was creating the softer light. Lee was caught is similar light as well.

I read "Confederates in the Attic" when it first was printed. I need to reread it again I think. The two Rebels certainly looked authentic.

There was a speaker at Gettysburg who is the true dedicated re enactor. He sleeps on a straw bed out of doors in the winter, keeping warm by spooning with his tent mates. He subsists on hard tack and hog back - he even said it will keep you alive, but just barely. He looked 30 pounds under weight.

All in all, it was a very interesting experience, and I plan to return again.

Here's a Rebel artileryman in color and B&W

[imgr]http://pathfinder.smugmug.com/photos/606443745_d2NqR-M.jpg[/imgr] [imgl]http://pathfinder.smugmug.com/photos/606439811_BXLcd-M.jpg[/imgl]

rutt · July 31, 2009

Here is a perfect vehicle to demonstrate the difference between BD's conversion [first] technique and mine [second].

Green layer with blue at 50% lighten (for the tunic and sky, taste on this may differ). The obvious curve and wide radius USM.

The difference might seem subtle, but for me it's great enough to make my conversion competitive with the color original.

Moral: except in glamor portraits, that red channel is not your friend in portraits.

richtersl · July 31, 2009

These shots are all wonderful!

Robert E. Lee looks amazing. BTW, you missed my buddy James Longstreet when you were there.

I think both color or B&W/Sepia works for re-enactment photos. There was no color photography in those days so if you want to do your emulation of a Gardner, Tipton, or Brady, that's fine. I'm not sure what process they used back in the day for this, but if you see a photo of anyone who may have had blue eyes, the eyes really pop. If you like you can try seeing if you can make the eyes pop like in these photos:

Stonewall Jackson: http://www.rebelyell1.com/Biographies/bio%20pic%20stonewall_jackson2.jpeg

Richard Ewell: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3226/2616835890_0117096b2c.jpg?v=0

But folks back then saw in color, just like we do, so to me, a color photo devoid of anything modern in the background provides the viewer with a window into the past.

Pitzer's Woods and Spangler's Spring have encampments throughout the year, which will provide you with plenty of opportunities for taking re-enactor photos. Here's a schedule of events: http://www.gettysburg.com/livinghistory/index2.html

There also are the "obligatory" locations for sunset shots: the High Water Mark and Little Round Top.

Want a nice sunrise? Head to the Triangular Field. I've seen some wonderful shots from there taken at sunrise.

pathfinder · July 31, 2009

richtersl wrote:

These shots are all wonderful! Robert E. Lee looks amazing. BTW, you missed my buddy James Longstreet when you were there.

I think both color or B&W/Sepia works for re-enactment photos. There was no color photography in those days so if you want to do your emulation of a Gardner, Tipton, or Brady, that's fine. I'm not sure what process they used back in the day for this, but if you see a photo of anyone who may have had blue eyes, the eyes really pop. If you like you can try seeing if you can make the eyes pop like in these photos:

Stonewall Jackson: http://www.rebelyell1.com/Biographies/bio%20pic%20stonewall_jackson2.jpeg

Richard Ewell: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3226/2616835890_0117096b2c.jpg?v=0

These studio shots are lovely, and I'll bet they were carefully illuminated with reflectors to keep good light into their orbits and eyes for that lovely look. I like them also!

Pitzer's Woods and Spangler's Spring have encampments throughout the year, which will provide you with plenty of opportunities for taking re-enactor photos. Here's a schedule of events: http://www.gettysburg.com/livinghistory/index2.html

I had no idea there were that many living history encampments at Gettysburg. That is remarkable. Unfortunately, I live in Indiana and it is a good days drive for me to get there.

There also are the "obligatory" locations for sunset shots: the High Water Mark and Little Round Top. Want a nice sunrise? Head to the Triangular Field. I've seen some wonderful shots from there taken at sunrise.

I have several panos of Big and Little Round Top, but the light was less than fine.

It is a fascinating place. Even in town, the facilities are delightful, complete with the Confederate Snipers on the rooftops

pathfinder · August 1, 2009

I rendered Grant again, using a modified Gorman approach, to see if I could approach rutt's version. I think this is getting closer in the face. I prefer my darker tone for the bluecoat.

The Rebel was rendered in three separate stages, one for sky, one for the grey coat and hat, and one for the Reb's face.

[imgl]http://pathfinder.smugmug.com/photos/607859078_KYztk-XL.jpg[/imgl] [imgr]http://pathfinder.smugmug.com/photos/607860193_GPABp-XL.jpg[/imgr]

W.W. Webster · August 1, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

US Grant

Sure it's not Russell Crowe?

richtersl · August 1, 2009

Grant is looking good.

I know you prefer the darker hue for the coat, and it looks good. But -- you wind up losing some of the detail in it.

I really like his face and how the sun is hitting the tent in the background.

The Bubba looks totally awesome! Between the expression on his face and the lighting, I think you have a winner there.