Shooting Event on a ship at night

Photobycate

Hello All,

I have volunteered to shoot my company's 30th anniversary celebration which is taking place on a small yacht that will circle around Manhattan and it will start after sundown.

So I will be shooting under the night sky and under restaurant type lighting. I have a Sony A 300 with the pop up flash (no off camera flash) and a Sigma 18MM-200MM lens and I cannot use a tripod. I'm thinking of shooting at the minimum of F1/60 with an apeture of 4.3 or 5.6. Now if I shoot at a very high ISO I will have deafening noise so my other alternative is to use the flash and tone down the brightness level with the flash compensation. Does anyone have some more advice for me on how to shoot in this type of environment?

Your help is greatly appreciated,


Thanks,

Scott_Quier

With my gear (see my profile) I would be shooting at ISO 800, f/4.0 (+/-), and 1/60s. You'll need to make adjustments to better fit the equipment you have available to you. In addition:

• Outdoors - I would be using an external flash (aka, hot-shoe flash) with something like a light-scoop (see link in my signature) all mounted on a flash bracket. Outdoors, you may end up with the "shot in a cave" look at 1/60 so you may need to either boost your ISO, decrease your shutter speed, and/or increase your aperture to allow for a greater ambient contribution to your exposures - depends on what you have for background(s).
• Indoors - same setup, except I would use a Better Bounce Card (see link in my signature) because you will probably not have the headroom in the yacht cabin for a lightscoop (they tend to be a little tall). Depending on the color of cabin, you might be able to get away with something like a Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce mounted to a hot-shoe flash. You may want to seriously consider putting either an 1/4 CTO or 1/2 CTS gel on your flash to better match the color of your flash to that of the interior lighting.

I understand (reading your post) that a tripod is not an option. How about a mono-pod?

Photobycate

Scott,

Thanks for the info Unfortunatley a mono-pod is not allowed either.

Scott_Quier wrote:

With my gear (see my profile) I would be shooting at ISO 800, f/4.0 (+/-), and 1/60s. You'll need to make adjustments to better fit the equipment you have available to you. In addition:

• Outdoors - I would be using an external flash (aka, hot-shoe flash) with something like a light-scoop (see link in my signature) all mounted on a flash bracket. Outdoors, you may end up with the "shot in a cave" look at 1/60 so you may need to either boost your ISO, decrease your shutter speed, and/or increase your aperture to allow for a greater ambient contribution to your exposures - depends on what you have for background(s).
• Indoors - same setup, except I would use a Better Bounce Card (see link in my signature) because you will probably not have the headroom in the yacht cabin for a lightscoop (they tend to be a little tall). Depending on the color of cabin, you might be able to get away with something like a Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce mounted to a hot-shoe flash. You may want to seriously consider putting either an 1/4 CTO or 1/2 CTS gel on your flash to better match the color of your flash to that of the interior lighting.

I understand (reading your post) that a tripod is not an option. How about a mono-pod?

Bilsen

AS another suggestion, you might try using 2nd curtain as a flash setting and slow the shutter down a stop or two. That gives the camera time to get the back light but still fill ini the people.

While not perfect, here's and example of this technique, actually on a cruise ship:



Good luck.

Qarik

imo you really need a diffused hot shoe flash if you are counting on decent quality.

Scott_Quier

JohnGalt_ny wrote:

AS another suggestion, you might try using 2nd curtain as a flash setting and slow the shutter down a stop or two. That gives the camera time to get the back light but still fill ini the people.

While not perfect, here's and example of this technique, actually on a cruise ship:

Good luck.

Dragging the shutter (the slower shutter speed) and 2nd curtain shutter sync are two separate techniques. You can effectively drag the shutter whether the flash fires at the start of the exposure or at the end.

2nd shutter synch is used to make the blurs run in the right direction - car taillights running behind the moving car rather than ahead of the moving car.

Bilsen

Can't argue Scott, but I used both to get the shot I showed.

Sam

Cate,

I went to your web site and I'll be darned if I could find a single people shot.

That said I am not sure you have the best lens for this. Typically a faster lens would be better, and I think a shoe or off camera flash will be needed.

Several of the people giving you advice have lots more experience than I do so keep that in mind.

I prefer to keep my shutter speeds up and for indoor event, flash photography will start shooting at ISO 800, f8, to 5.6 and 1/160. I do constantly chimp and adjust as needed. I will change ISO, f stop or shutter as needed, and as equipment will allow. If I need to go down to 1/30 I will but don't like it. I have no issue with using ISO 1600, but the 5D II is very good with high ISO. Depending on the lens I will open up to 2.8 or 1.8 if needed.

If you don't have and can't afford the equipment, see if your company would be willing to rent what you need.

The bottom line is go out and practice, change everything and see what the results are. The party may drag for others but if your seriously photographing the event things will seem to move at an accelerated pace.

Good luck!!

Sam

Nikolai

Cate,
use the fastest lens you have and an external flash. Set the M or Av mode if you did that before or plain old P if you didn't.
I shot plenty of parties, nobody's looking for Getty's level images from those.
As Sam said, 200 is probably a bit too far...

Photobycate

Thank You Everyone.

I'm stuck with the pop-up flash for now. I do not have the money for extra equipment and the event is on the 16th. I will practice like mad using high ISO, etc.

Sam,

You're right you will rarely see people in my photos because I am an urban/industrial photographer who decided to "volunteer" my photographic services for my company. . What was I thinking!!

Keep your fingers crossed for me that I get "some" decent enough shots.

Best Regards,
Cate

Sam

Cate,

Here are a few parting thoughts. Again would your company be willing to rent some gear for you?

Another thought is maybe a fellow Dgriner would be willing to help you out for the evning.

Sam

Nikolai

Pop-up flash is typically the last resort since it's very close to the lens axis (=red eye alert!). If shooting indoors (in the cabins) you can still improve it by using something like LightScoop or a plain old DIY Business Card trick. Cabins typically have low ceilings, so even weak pop-up can create enough effect.
Also make sure you don't use any lens longer than 70..80mm and do not use the hood - popup flash is low and longer lens and/or hood would create a nasty shadow...
Consider renting/borrowing ANY dedicated flash!
HTH

ChatKat

Say no
If you do not have the gear for the job and they are expecting professional results, you need to tell them that your gear is not going to produce more than snapshots. Manage the expectations before you shoot it so that you don't have any issues later on. You might take some example shots with your flash so that you can see the results. Boats are generally more crowded than a traditional banquet room might be so you need to shoot with a zoom with a range of 35-75 and you will have some distortion.

Shooting on a boat requires fast shutter speeds - your flash should freeze most of the camera shake from the vibrations of the engines. Pop up flash really won't do an effective job of that. Your lens isn't fast enough for the subjects in low light.

It's kind of like going bowling with a golf ball. You don't have what you need to knock down all 10 pins at once.

aj986s

I see on your website that you're in NY City area. Any chance you could rent a flash for the evening from one of the MANY photography shops in the city?

Bilsen

If you're using on camera flash, you can do a DIY diffuser with tissue or toilet paper. It helps a little bit anyway.

Pupator

I shoot Sony (A700) with nice glass and this would still be a challenging shoot. You've really got to get your hands on some other equipment. With what you're doing 1/60, f/4 you're going to have deafening noise with or without the popup flash.

You've got to know someone who shoots Sony/Minolta and has a 50mm f/1.7 you can borrow for a night (it's only a $100 lens, they shouldn't hesitate to loan it to you). You can rent a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 for <$40/week usually. It seems like your company could spring for that if they want decent pictures.

Best bet, as everyone else has said, is to get a flash. Even the Sony HVL-F32 would really, really help your situation.

I know it seems like we aren't listening to you when you say "other equipment isn't an option," but there's a reason we're not. Kat is right - if you can't get equipment that will take better pictures you just shouldn't do it. They're going to be disappointed and you're going to be embarrassed if you spend the whole night taking pictures and come away with little/nothing worth sharing. The company should be willing to sink $100-150 into getting you some equipment that would allow you to take some great photos. The Sonys are not great low-light cameras and I'm afraid you'd be pushing your A300 beyond it's limits.

Photobycate

Ok. Guess what I got the flash. I'm going to play around with it for the next week and a half.

EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP AND ADVICE IT IS REALLY APPRECIATED.

Best Regards,

Scott_Quier

Photobycate wrote:

Ok. Guess what I got the flash. I'm going to play around with it for the next week and a half.

EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP AND ADVICE IT IS REALLY APPRECIATED.

Best Regards,

I'm not certain what you mean by "play around wit it", but may I suggest you approach the process of learning this flash in a more systematic manner? Some things that you may want to investigate and get very familiar with include:

• What are the advantages of shooting Manual mode vs. Av mode. When is it best to shoot Manual mode with flash? When is it best to shoot Av mode with flash?
• Does your camera incorporate the concept of Exposure Compensation? If so, when do you use it and what are it's impacts on the resulting exposures.
• Does your camera incorporate the concept of Flash Exposure Compensation? If so, what are it's impacts on the photograph.
• Take a look at bouncing your flash (the light, not the actual unit ). What kinds of surfaces can you bounce off of? What do you do if you don't have any surfaces off of which you can bounce your flash?

There are more, but if you get some exposure (pun intended ) to these, you will have about 90% of what you need to make a much more than presentable showing. That first point is probably going to prove to be the single most important technique to understand (hint: I don't think you'll be shooting anything other than manual mode the entire evening).

Qarik

Photobycate wrote:

Ok. Guess what I got the flash. I'm going to play around with it for the next week and a half.

EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP AND ADVICE IT IS REALLY APPRECIATED.

Best Regards,

heh playing around with it..

just point it straight up and get a some kind of diffuser (fong sphere, demb it, lumiquest)...set it on TTL and that really is 1/2 of it.

Sam

Chatcat,

"It's kind of like going bowling with a golf ball. You don't have what you need to knock down all 10 pins at once."

Now you tell me! Where were you when I nneded you?

Sam

ChatKat

Sam wrote:

Chatcat,

"It's kind of like going bowling with a golf ball. You don't have what you need to knock down all 10 pins at once."

Now you tell me! Where were you when I nneded you?

Sam

Glad you like my analogy, Sam - I know we can be creative. I once bowled a 300. It wasn't with a golf ball. We have a lot more latitude in photography but you still need some semblance of the right gear to get the shot.