What to charge for a class reunion?
lilmomma
Registered Users Posts: 1,060 Major grins
Just possibly booked a 40yr class reunion, they want single/couple formal portraits and a group photo. About 60-70 ppl. I am waiting to find out if the attendees will be purchasing prints also, so I know there will be a profit from that if that is the case. But I don't really know where to start as far as how much to charge. $200? 400? I don't want to go too high, but I don't want to go too low either. I think it will be about 2-4 hrs. Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks!
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If the portraits are simply shoot and hope, I would factor in $15 to $20 per couple as a base price for the shoot, then add $25 to $35 for the group shot.
35 couples plus group shot would equal $525-700 for the portraits plus the fee for the group shot.
Add a flat $125 to $150 for time involved.
Offer a package set of (1) 8x10 and (2) 5x7 for $25 on the back end.
On the cheap end I would offer to do the shoot for $675 and $885 on the high side. Any additional orders would just be gravy.
Website
No I won't be printing onsite, and the organizers are paying a flat fee to have me there. Then I was going to pass out my card so they can go to my site for proofs. Then I would imagine they will order from there. So I'll need to set print prices. I'm just not sure what to charge for the flat fee. The only thing the attendees will be paying for is prints if they want them.
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I also have a lightstand and umbrella, and will be purchasing another sb600 along with another lightstand/umbrella.
Huh? Why would the equipment have anything to do with the price charged?
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While it's possible to do good work with inexpensive gear, the 18-35mm f/3.5-5.6 really isn't going to cut it in low light. It also tends to indicate ones experience. Tends. It's not a guarantee, but a rough indication.
That being said, lilmomma certainly exceeds my expectation based on her equipment. I stick with my previous price $400 to show up. No CD, no prints. All that should be extra.
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Oh my gosh, just realized my siggy has a typo. It's actually 18-105. not that it helps as far as low lighting is concerned. however I do have a 50 f1.8 that might help for individual/couple shots but for a group shot i'll want to use smaller ap anyway to make sure all are in focus. So for that I believe the 18-105 will be sufficient.
I may post over in technique for tips on lighting the group....
I am taking that as a compliment
thanks for the advice guys!
My thoughts exactly.....
Why not charge as if it were a wedding.......plus offer a book, nice hard bound with printed cover date and title....plus your individual prints.....cine the organizers havethe addresses of all coming ask for a copy to send order formsand links to your website......
This will be one helluva lot of work and you need to be compensated for it.........
you are a PRO....
charge like one..........
Might be a good idea to have an assistant and a 2nd shooter also.............
Do you ahve any kind of studio lights and where is this even being held.....ifit is a large Hotel (Marriot, Holiday Inn, Hilton etc etc) tehy should have some stair risers possibly 4-6 feet in lenght and 3 stairs high.......ask for 2 or 3 and have the hand rails removed on the insides (leave the outter hand rails for people to lean agains in a not so stuffy group shot.....give'm a little lattitiude to play and be goofy for a couple of group shots as well as gettingthe stuffy one.......
With you SB600's you may want to go bare flash I am not sure I would umbrella them for the group shot.....but do use brand new batteries in both flash units for the group shot......you want all the power you can muster forthis......also you want your flashes at least 9' up and a slight .....very slight tilt down (exact for both flashes).....do not worry about back ground going blk that is probably the best..........
That's absolutely how it was intended! I knew people would get upset over the equipment thing. The fact is, without a link to your website, a cheap zoom and an SB600 would suggest that you might not have the skillset to charge a lot. Before everyone flames me: SUGGEST. Can you take great photos with the gear you have? Absolutely, you've proven it on your site. But, given the number of people I know that buy the D90 and an 18-200 or 18-105 and an SB600 and are absolutely awful photographers, I guess I'm biased. That type of kit seems to be the kit most popular with people who tell me they've outgrown a P&S (when the fact is they can't even take a decent photograph on a point and shoot and think it's the camera's fault). I'm sorry to sound so blunt and nasty, but this whole thing is really a compliment to lilmamma. With a limited lens set and limited lighting gear, you've produced great work. Congratulations!
Also, as you mentioned, you'd said 18-35 rather than 105. Big difference there. With an 18-35, you'd be missing that critical 35-55 range that I use all the time for event work.
For the umbrellas, do shoot thru for small groups and reflected (maybe even get a silver umbrella) for any big groups. The SB-600 just don't have the power (and shoot thrus don't have the spread) to cover big groups. For a big group shot, you might even consider setting the SB-600s bare a few yards camera right and left on light stands and tilting a few degrees forward and bouncing off the ceiling.
Make sure to scout your location so you know these things ahead of time.
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The larger aperture on a lens isn't just for creative effects. It greatly affects focussing in low light. I hardly shoot at 2.8 when working a reception, but I need the 2.8 or I wouldn't be able to focus. I wish I could get zooms even faster.
Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
~ Gear Pictures
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I think you're mistaken to say " you know there will be profit from folks buying prints", especially since you are not printing on site. I say print on-site is a must. You must know people are going to have their cameras there as well, so your best bet, in my way of thinking is to show your stuff right there and sell away~
$500 to secure the date - 100 couples in attendance estimated.
$45.00 to shoot each couple includes 5x7 print and wallet - they cannot be in the book without being shot. Additional images on website availabe to be ordered. Must prepay before shooting. Credit cards on site accepted.
$50.00 for the event book - must buy it at the event for that price and photos from the evening will be included in the book. $75 afterwards
Book is softcover 8x8. Will shoot formals and couples as well as candids through out the evening.
Studio set up at venue - softbox, fill, hairlight...photographer and assistant.
Photo studio set up at sign in table. Almost will have to be in line for photo before they sign in to attend.
Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
http://flashfrozenphotography.com
Well, i don't have onsite printing equipment and won't be investing in one before this event. that's a whole other can of worms and stack of bills there.... And yes they will have their own cameras but they won't have their own lighting system and backdrop. I will guide them to the online proofs and let them make the decision on which to hang on their wall: p&s red-eye removed flash-blasted snap with walmart's yellow tinted paper or professional quality portrait from me and professional quality print from Bay Photo. (not dogging on the p&s, but you know that's what comes out of it on auto mode when in the wrong hands) If they want the portrait they'll order it. If not, their loss, I can't force them but I can't imagine that I won't get at least a few orders out of 70 people. I will inform them of the online viewing and ordering process and go from there. I might also bring a sample of wm print vs. bay photo print to emphasize the quality difference. Also, they are getting a "free" sitting, as the coordinators are paying to have me there. Which is why I was wondering what to charge for me being there. They only want me to setup in one spot and have portraits of people as they register.
Well, i'm thinking i'll have to use the wide end, and with that many people i'll need to be back pretty far. So i may be able to keep it around 5.6 or so and still be ok. And i'll need to put some fresh batteries in both flashes and fire at full power. I'm also thinking about diffusing my on board flash (to combat glowing eyes, of course that will need to be tested) and firing that at full power, with SB600's to right and left. I'll have to take a few and chimp, but with group photo's I do that anyway and tell them i'm making sure I have all eyes open, which is not a total lie
yes that is very true, but given the limitations on my equipment and my wallet i will likely just switch to MF for the group. Hunting issue resolved.
Art- Yes that would be a lot of work at would justify a high cost, but i don't think they are looking for that. Great idea though, I may suggest it as an option before settling on a price.
Once again dgrin comes through, wouldn't be booking this event had I not discovered this forum and all the useful information and great people here. Thanks a bunch!
I would like to hear how that turns out. Please let us know if they accept your proposal.
Marty
In my experience, I find it easier to get sales if you show the pictures on the spot, and sell them right there. People seem to put off placing orders if you let them do it at their lesiure. You could get a 2nd person to show the pictures while you take the next set. Problem is you dont normally have time to proces the images first this way.
edit>
Forgot to mention take the order now, but print later from the lab you use. Not on spot. You can print on spot if you want, but as you said you dont have the equipment. Add a couple dollars for shipping. : )
Oh, and I was just wondering how you booked this. Did you contact them, or did they contact you?
I would love to know what kind of drop you all use for this type of event!
I read an awesome post on high school reunions and someone gave some very helpful advice, but I can not find that thread. This was like 4 months ago and on the 3 computers I use I can not find the bookmark.
They suggested using large labels to get the people to write down their address so all you have to do is slap the label on the envelope and you are done with that. This saves an incredible amount of time having to hand write or type up these labels and triple checking there are no mistakes.
I believe I will also setup the portraits of the couples as they arrive by the door, although I am not sure about this. It works great for bear jamboree in pigeon forge and it would ensure you get everyone instead of hoping they will come by at some point. I am thinking of slim lining the picture viewing process since im only taking a few pictures and having them choose from the back of the camera and marking down the file number on their order form. This way I dont have to setup a computer there.
Yeah, you're dead right there!
The wannabee's and posers think they have to list every bit of photogear they own down to the memory cards as if the hardware is what holds the skill and talent.
The shooters that know what they are doing don't really give a rats. They use what they have and make it work.
I do 95% of my work on a 28-135, a 70-200 and a 50. Never had a client complain or lost money on a job yet because I didn't have 27 lenses in the bag or a whole bunch of primes as many crap on about.
If you don't have what is ideal for a job, adapt and over come. Make what you do have a Style and turn the negative into a positive. That's what a real creative professional does.
I have a heap of lenses and camera's on order at the moment and make no bones about the fact I'm buying them instead of spending the money paying tax. I also have 3 P&S camera's on order that I'm going to use for my latest target market which is humming along VERY nicely. I could use SLR's to do the same thing at much greater expense but I'm interested in running a successful business not winning a pi$$ing contest with other try hard shooters. For that reason I use the most economical gear that gets the job done to the standard required. Anything else is bad business through needless over capitalisation.
The way some shooters go on these days wanting auto everything and relying on equipment to do the job for them We'll be arguing which camera points itself in the right direction and presses the shutter button at the right time because that's about all shooters have left to do now.
I'd sure like to see some people do a wedding or anything else with a medium format that didn't even have a built in light meter as I and a million other shooters used to use 15 years ago and think nothing of it. You were also lucky to have 3 lenses for the things and rarely would you use all of them on a shoot. I'd still stack a lot of pics taken back then against what done now. The award winners on my walls done on those camera's certainly still impress people that were barely born when they were taken.
I think you are either misguided or falling into the equipment trap yourself.
Last saturday night I shot a charity function of 720 people.
I sent my son out on Friday to grab a new cheap I5 laptop for $500. I have desktops that I could have used and did on a similar function about a month back but he wanted a new laptop so I said go get this one and we'll use it the weekend.
I also just bought a couple of weeks ago 3 new Canon printers for $100 ea. I took 2 of them with me and we used them to pint on. I got a ream of the A4 paper I'm using and cut it in half to make 6x8's and we offered those for $20 ea. So all up on the printing side my total equipment investment was $700.
We took $1840 for the event.
I wasn't happy with the promotion we got from the organiser and reckoned we could and should have done another $500 at least if they plugged us better.
Now if I threw all that gear away and " Only " put the $1140 in my pocket, I'd say that was a pretty profitable night for arriving at 4;30 for setup and leaving at 12;30 when the event was done.
The thing was though, I also used that same gear to do another job on the Sat morning and the sunday and that pulled us another $1270. Normally I would have pre-printed this other work at a cost of over $600 but I decided to change tack and it worked perfectly. On that saving alone the lappy and printers paid for themselves.
You DON"T need to invest a lot of money for onsite printing. Any old P4 computer and a $100 printer will get you there especially if your only shooting 63 people! I had 2 and pooled them so we could produce an A4 eery 30 sec or a 6x8 in about 20.
I know people make out that it's a big drama and a huge expense and all that CRAP to do onsite , but ask those who are saying that if they are actually shooting events and doing onsite or they are just forum parrots with bugger all experience in the real world.
I didn't calibrate or ajust the laptop or the printers in any way. The lighting at the event made the images look a bit red in the skintone so I turned the colour temp down on the camera a bit and they looked great. Might be a bit blue in the daylight but by the time the pics saw daylight they were well and truly sold! Besides, the way a lot of these people were drinking they could have been blue in the face anyway!
I can tell you this for a certainty.
If you put the pics online you will be incredibly lucky to make 25% of what you will if you print on the night. Honestly I reckon you'll be lucky to make 10%.
If you can't buy a $100 printer ( my latest ones are ip4950 canons) and a spare set of inks, print 5x7's ( Don't waste your time with stupid 6x4's, do 5x7 and look professional not like an amateur from wartmart) and recoup the cost of the printer several times over, then you are doing something ELSE very wrong.
I remember some years ago a mate and I scored an awards night for a top 10 company here of 1500 people. We rocked up with everything we owned as far as lights and backgrounds etc. The organisers words were we looked like we had enough gear to go to war and over throw a small country.
We set it all up, got ready and were standing there looking at the stage area and the lighting setup. Mate said how bright and colourful it was. I lifted the camera I had, fired a shot and we looked at it then each other. The lights and crap never got used that night. We brought the people in down the centre of the room, turned them round and used the stage lights as the BG and just had a speedlight on the camera for fill and dragged the shutter to 1/30 and that was it.
EVERYONE raved about the pics and we sold a heap. The background of the stage lights was awesome and stood out like the dogs proverbials. Much better than anything we could have done and we didn't have green screen like now. Again, onsite printing. Pre printed them all while the people were having dinner, laid them out on about 10 tables and the only trouble we had was keeping up with the re-orders for the group prints and others. IF someone had told us how much money we made that night before the event we would have thought they were either taking drugs or ought to have been. My mates GF who was thankfully with us was stuffing cash into camera bags as the bum bag we used to put the money in couldn't hold it all. I think we sold a pic to about 60% of the people in the place and some bought 3 or 4 in different groups.
A speedlight and an umbrella will be fine for this gig you are doing. If you have to make it work, you can. It's bread and butter takeaway you are doing here not portraits of the Royal family to hang in an art gallery.
I did my shots on saturday night with the $500 Chinese surprise 4 light set I bought on fleabay ( which has stood up to about 8 events like this now without a hitch) and a $39 BG also from fleabay. If I had to only shoot it with the 2 spedlights I had and no BG, not a problem, I'd have made it work and called it art.
Think like a business person not a forum pedantic wanna be.
Use what you have as far as lights and get what you need that will make a big difference to your bottom line and that is a printer to use for onsite.
For 60 people you'll do something around 20 -30 sales @ $15 ea is $375. Plus your attendance Which I'd be looking at around $200 to get the gig myself) It's a decent 4 hours work that gives you a new assett and money left over.
Glort-
I appreciate the sentiment, time, and advice in this post. However I feel bad that you spent all that time writing this, since the offer for the gig was over 3 years ago and I didn't end up taking it.
I'm sure this will be useful advice to others though so thank you!
Yeah, I did see that even if I wrote it poorly in the present tense as a comparison and forgot to add the main bit I was going to say about past and present. . Everything is still relevant and nothing has changed in perceptions and comments I see every week except things have got cheaper and easier. 3 years ago Laptops and Printers weren't so cheap and I was thinking how I have changed the way I'm doing things right now because of it.
I recently changed from doing pre printing on what I'm doing to onsite because I got the new laptops so much cheaper and they are so much faster than before. A mate asked my why I didn't do this earlier as he rightly couldn't see why I couldn't have done that previously and I told him it was basically the price and capability of the gear.
The lights are the same. My mate bought these lights as " Interest" for payback on something I did for him and while I was glad to get them at the time, I didn't really think they would be near as good or as reliable as they have been. For $500 you get everything, lights, stands, barndoors, grids, triggers etc.
I have Elinchroms and Bowens lights but I didn't want to be carting them round everywhere and subjecting them to the knocks and bumps of travelling or the carelessness of drunk and stupid people.
The other thing I think is online now is a worse sales medium than it was before. I think many years back when it became viable it had a wow actor to it. Now it just seems to be a great way to get pics for nothing to put on peoples phones, avoid buying the pic all together or have it hosted somewhere so you can always access and show it around when you want.
Just re reading that post, I noticed I only mentioned one of the events we covered. I did 3 that weekend, ( an 18 and a 20 hour day) and the net total for my sleep denial was $3800.
The worst part of the whole weekend was the monday morning when I was planning till sleeping till about 6PM, my mate arrived and woke me up just before 10 am.
Some people have no manners!!
There used to be a lot more event work discussions here, has this type of work dropped off or have people just become more familiar and confident with it now?
Hi! While i recognize that this thread is pretty old...i could use some help!
I do portraits in my area, have been for about two years. I have been asked to do a class reunion. i have done a couple of weddings and engagements, but never a reunion. I have always given a disk and not prints, to keep my cost low. For the reunion I was hoping to get on smug mug and hopefully do it that way?? Even though i have been doing pics for a while, I am still very novice as far as how to go about delivery. And I have no idea on what to charge. Any advice?
Youll sell more if you sell on the spot. Just have a simple order form that includes the class photo 5x7, 8x10, 11x14, and individual portrait, maybe different packages, $50, $100, $150. but the ability take credit cards is a big plus, square up is pretty good, and I think you can swipe cards now while offline and have it process when you get to wifi, if they dont have wifi at the reunion.
if you dont offer digital, you will make a lot more money. no one is going to buy the class picture if its on fb for free after the first person buys it.
You can do it that way if you like wasting your time going to a lot of effort and making no money.
As I said 2 years ago and is even more true now... "I can tell you this for a certainty.
If you put the pics online you will be incredibly lucky to make 25% of what you will if you print on the night. Honestly I reckon you'll be lucky to make 10%.
If you can't buy a $100 printer ( my latest ones are ip4950 canons) and a spare set of inks, print 5x7's ( Don't waste your time with stupid 6x4's, do 5x7 and look professional not like an amateur from wartmart) and recoup the cost of the printer several times over, then you are doing something ELSE very wrong. "
Onsite Printing is the far and away best method to get decent sales with this. If you absoloutley cannot do onsite printing you MUST at least do onsite ORDERING. Take the pics, show them and take the orders and send them out.
Do not, and make it clear the pics WILL NOT be put online.
If you say they will go online, everyone will say they will look at them tomorrow or whenever as an excusenot to buy now and you'll end up with NO orders. I gaurantee it.
Oh yeah, several people are going to bleat they don't have time now or don't have their money or The phase of Jupiters 2nd moon isn't right just then etc but you have to understand these are excuses more than anything to get out of making the purchasing decision and if you fall for them, YOU will pay the price.
There is no way on this earth I would even think about doing any event if I couldn't do onsite. I have been doing event work more than long enough to know how to make money, as in real money for my effort and I know for a certainty that online is the very worst marketing model out there. You would absoloutley do far better throwing a hat on the floor and getting donations from people to take their pics and upload them to a site than actually try to sell them online.
If online is what you have your heart set on, my only advise is just don't bother thinking about this anymore, it' will be more profitable to stay at home and watch TV.
First thing to understand is there is selling the images and there is delivery of them. Online basicaly delivers the images before they are sold. That alone shows what a lousy business model the idea is.
Yeah, you can make them tiny, watermark them into obscurity and everything else and you'll still get them stolen and make no sales.
If you shoot, show and sell on the night you can charge a nomiunal fee to deliver by post. Easy enough but you'll have a few re dos from people who don't get the pics, arrive damaged etc. Annoying but not the end of the world.
If you sell and deliver on the night, those problems dissappear but you also get people impulse buying much better. How many time I have heard people tell me that they werent even going to look at the pics but their friends showed them theirs and they were fantastic and they want to see thiers now.
Sold a LOT of pics that way.
I generally just print everything these days, lay them out on the tables and they come up and buy. If it's a big group shot I tend to print for about half the people in the shot given most times there will be couples in them. If they want another copy, I put all the printed shots in another folder so I don't have to work out which one it was if there were multiple frames, I just print the one that's there. Only takes a minute to print another shot and 90 sec to print 2.
Yeah, you will have leftovers, who cares? You'll be selling for 20 times what the cost is so if you get 1 in 19 you'll brak even. 1 in 10 and you are way ahead.
The way I do these things is to arrange with the organisers to shoot EVERYONE when they enter the venue. They literally can't get in till they walk by me and they only get to walk by once I have shot them. I then print all the pics to 5x7 or more likley of late, 6x8 because the paper is cheaper and the larger prints have more wow factor and I can get a better price for them.
For 5x7's or 6x8's I charge $15 or $20 depending on the gig I'm doing. I also offer 8x12's by order for $30. Sell anything from a few to quite a few. You must have a display print so they know they are available on your table though, signage is better still.
[/QUOTE]And I have no idea on what to charge. Any advice?[/QUOTE]
You do now!