Seeking C&C on 3rd Motocross Shoot

Gringriff

Okay, I want to go ahead and post a few of these hoping to get some feedback on additional areas to work on getting better. I do feel these are an improvement over my July post. I am using a gray card but the red dirt made it difficult for me to control WB but I am still learning there too. So let me know what you think (If you want to see the bigger versions the gallery is at http://andygriffin.smugmug.com/gallery/9332772_3qnVi#623945021_nKeMe ).

Thanks,
Andy


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kiz5

I'm not a motorsports fan, but the main thing I feel about it -- is for the jumps, get as low as you can. While you might have been limited by the terrain, if you weren't ... definitely, get low. Be safe, but do what you can. The higher it looks like they're getting, the better.

BCSPhotoguy

They have a good feel to them, but seem to be washed out? Could me my monitor but something colour wise is missing. One thing to work on is finding the balance of showing motion (wheel spin) and sharpness of the bike. Thats one of the things that i keep in mind everytime I do MX - but sometimes get caught up being "safe" and freezing the action.

Love the shots of the young ones, parents would love them!

Gringriff

kiz5 wrote:

I'm not a motorsports fan, but the main thing I feel about it -- is for the jumps, get as low as you can. While you might have been limited by the terrain, if you weren't ... definitely, get low. Be safe, but do what you can. The higher it looks like they're getting, the better.

Thanks Kiz5 - This jump was an uphill and I was higher than the take off and landing. I will try to get some lower positions next time.

Gringriff

BCSPhotoguy wrote:

They have a good feel to them, but seem to be washed out? Could me my monitor but something colour wise is missing. One thing to work on is finding the balance of showing motion (wheel spin) and sharpness of the bike. Thats one of the things that i keep in mind everytime I do MX - but sometimes get caught up being "safe" and freezing the action.

Love the shots of the young ones, parents would love them!

Thanks so much for the feedback BCS. I am not sure what I need to do about the "washed out" look?? Maybe these were overexposed or maybe I damaged it in PP. I did try to reduce the temperature to avoid a yellow/orange cast over many of them - I felt like the trees did not have correct greens so I tried to eyeball and adjust the temperature.

In some of these I adjusted the Levels very slightly on the lower side just to help the bike and rider stand out more, and it appeared to help. The only other thing I did was cropping and a little USM.

I agree about the wheel spin. My first shoot I was using speeds around 1/1250. This time I tried to increase the motion of the wheels so I shot more around 1/800. it seems to have made the nobbies out of focus but no real blur.

Maybe I can post a couple without adjusting the WB to see what people think.

And my wife liked the the little ones too!

Thanks again,
Andy

Erbeman

I think you have done a pretty good job here on these other than the colors. They are a bit washed out. I don't know what mode you shoot in but, you need to open you aperature a bit more and slow down your shutter speed. This will help give a little blur to the background. Just a little tip, I shoot in manual mode always, but I always try to shoot a little underexposed from what my camera's meter tells me. I like a darker color rich picture as opposed to a bright, washed out kind of pic. However that is just my opinion, and that doesn't mean alot. I love the pic of the little kid on the 50 coming over the jump.

Gringriff

Erbeman wrote:

I think you have done a pretty good job here on these other than the colors. They are a bit washed out. I don't know what mode you shoot in but, you need to open you aperature a bit more and slow down your shutter speed. This will help give a little blur to the background. Just a little tip, I shoot in manual mode always, but I always try to shoot a little underexposed from what my camera's meter tells me. I like a darker color rich picture as opposed to a bright, washed out kind of pic. However that is just my opinion, and that doesn't mean alot. I love the pic of the little kid on the 50 coming over the jump.

Thank you Erbeman. I was shooting in Manual mode, f/4.5. I have a fear of someone getting dark prints so I have tended to be just a little on the high side of center in the exposure meter. I've read so much about images being bright on monitors but then when the prints arrive they are too dark. I will definetly try to get some shots with lower exposure next time.

Erbeman

Gringriff wrote:

Thank you Erbeman. I was shooting in Manual mode, f/4.5. I have a fear of someone getting dark prints so I have tended to be just a little on the high side of center in the exposure meter. I've read so much about images being bright on monitors but then when the prints arrive they are too dark. I will definetly try to get some shots with lower exposure next time.

F/4.5 huh, that's a good place to be. Most all of these have a background that is in focus. Some are blurred, but most aren't. I would think at 4.5 they would be more blurred.

nw scout

Gringriff wrote:

I am using a gray card but the red dirt made it difficult for me to control WB but I am still learning there too.

Thanks,
Andy
]

Hey Andy.

A little confusing here.
You are using a grey card for exposure, correct, not to white balance I hope.

Overall I think they are nice except for the exposures.
You did a good job picking spots to shoot that have good action and clean backgrounds.

The problem is with the exposures, and I think for sure the grey card is the problem.
It is really difficult to shoot with a gray card when on location, by your self, and in changing light.
You are making things WAY to difficult for yourself IMO. You are correct in trying to learn, but are doing it in about the most difficult situation possible.
Carry a light meter if you want to go old school

Also, always better to underexpose a little than overexpose. You can correct later in PP and the images will look much better.

Great job on capturing some good MX action, just save the grey card for the studio.

Gringriff

nw scout wrote:

A little confusing here.
You are using a grey card for exposure, correct, not to white balance I hope.

Oh Gosh! Actually I am using the gray card to set the custom White Balance. I lay the card down and take a shot and use it for the custom WB. Is that wrong? Would you recommend using Auto White Balance or choosing one of the other modes such as Cloudy or Sunny (depending on conditions).

I am not even sure how I would use it to set exposure. For exposure I am taking a shot, looking at the Histogram and adjusting to get it close then looking at the image (zooming in) to make any more fine tuning of the exposure - either ISO or Speed.

Gringriff

Erbeman wrote:

F/4.5 huh, that's a good place to be. Most all of these have a background that is in focus. Some are blurred, but most aren't. I would think at 4.5 they would be more blurred.

I just went back and checked and made the camera data available in the galleries and yes it was at f/4.5 for almost every shot. The ISO was usually around 200, 250, or 320. These were with Canon 70-200mm lens. Maybe I need to drop down to f/4 or less.

Maybe I need to go back to 2.8 or 3.2 like I shot on July 5th at same track. Although conditions were VERY different very cloudy that day and even periods of rain sprinkles compare to last Sunday that was very Sunny and Hot! Do the colors in photo below look any better from the July shoot?

1. Here is f/2.8, Speed 1/640, and ISO 640


2. f/3.2, ISO 125, Speed 1/800

Erbeman

Those colors do look better, but you didn't have a bright sunny day there either. So, you really can't compare the two. It's all about trying different setting until you find what works best for your equipment and your eye.

BCSPhotoguy

I may get slammed here.. But try this - set it to shutter priority (if nikon) try speeds all over the place! start 'safe' at about 1/800 and go down from there! Next, If the lens is a 2.8 or f4 i guess - set the dial to Apeture and set it to 2.8 or whatever so you can switch between the shutter speed you are using to the Aperture setting so you can isolate the rider quickly. I know Erbeman uses Manual (and I am truly jealous for that ) But i find on a track you are worring more about NOT getting hit then camera settings! Let the camera do the work!!! Leave it on Auto WB too.

...unless you are a 'Manual Only' Person, this may work for you! !!

Gringriff

Thank you both again for your help. I will continue to try different things and try to keep learning.

BCS - I have actually tried that idea before. I tried using AV, TV, and M mode and dialing in the camera for each mode and then going back and forth to see how it works (I think that was during soccer season). Anyway I got so confused I took a bunch in DEP-A mode which were just awful! All operator error - need more experience.

Looking forward to my next chance at MX!

nw scout

Gringriff wrote:

Oh Gosh! Actually I am using the gray card to set the custom White Balance. I lay the card down and take a shot and use it for the custom WB. Is that wrong? Would you recommend using Auto White Balance or choosing one of the other modes such as Cloudy or Sunny (depending on conditions).

I am not even sure how I would use it to set exposure. For exposure I am taking a shot, looking at the Histogram and adjusting to get it close then looking at the image (zooming in) to make any more fine tuning of the exposure - either ISO or Speed.

Ooops...

Grey card for exposure, white card for white balance

Alone, and on location, I would not do either. Again, its great that you are trying to learn, just do it in a more controlled environment so you have a quality result from your effort.

On location, I almost always shoot with the white balance set to cloudy. It gives a nice slightly warm tone to the image. Correct White balance is not near as important on location, and since it is changing throughout the day, it is very hard to keep up with it.

In the studio, shooting product for ads, white balance is very important as the client wants to see colors as color correct as possible. I do a custom white balance to the strobes to ensure a correct color match.

If you guys want to see some of my work you can check it out here.
www.bushproductions.net

I have been working as a freelance photographer / scout for this company for about 15 years.
We shoot most all the ad work for Yamaha and also have done tons of work for Honda, Chevy and others over the years.

Since I freelance for them, all the images are owned by them and I cant / dont show them for self promotion. But at least it will give you an idea of some of the type of work I do.

Since most guys reeding this are into MX I thought you might like to check it out.

BCSPhotoguy

OH...
MY....
GORSH......!

Seriously... You cannot EVER have a bad day at work! Amazing. That website is close to making me put my gear up for sale on ebay to the lowest bidder.

All i got!

I may send you emails from time to time!!! Amazing work! BTW: Which one are you in those shots?

nw scout

BCSPhotoguy wrote:

OH...
MY....
GORSH......!

Seriously... You cannot EVER have a bad day at work! Amazing. That website is close to making me put my gear up for sale on ebay to the lowest bidder.

All i got!

I may send you emails from time to time!!! Amazing work! BTW: Which one are you in those shots?

Hey.
I thought you moto guys might like that

We just put that site up a few months ago. Never needed one till the economy went in the hole.

If you look in the behind the scenes.......
3rd pic is Lawson, one of my twin boys
pic #6 is me on the ladder
pic #8 is me on the far left in the snow
Pic #13 is me on the snowmobile

Lots of others in there. If its a dorky guy with a camera having fun, its probably me

Feel free to pm me here, or ask me any questions that you think I may be able to help out with.
My e-mail is
nwlocations@verizon.net
This is my main email and is connected to my scouting site / www.nwlocations.com

And don't you EVER EVER sell your cameras!!!!

Gringriff

nw scout wrote:

Ooops...

Grey card for exposure, white card for white balance


If you guys want to see some of my work you can check it out here.
www.bushproductions.net

I have read so much about how using a gray card for the white balance was the way to go - Oh well.


And Scout - I loved those pictures , thanks for sharing the link.

Erbeman

Scout, I'm pretty sure we all hate you now :beatwax You've seriously landed yourself one helluva sweet gig there.

nw scout

Gringriff wrote:

I have read so much about how using a gray card for the white balance was the way to go - Oh well.

This video looks a little dorky, but explains WB pretty well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Q2aSgTZPc