Swan conundrum

PeterD-2009

Hi all. Been away for a weeks vacation in sunny Dorset, England.

Saw this puzzle I would like to share with you on the River Piddle (not joking:D it really is called that).
A swan family had set up its territory between two bridges - nothing unusual about that.

Here is the female adult

http://peterd-2009.smugmug.com/Recent-Photos/New-Bird-Uploads/8916554_2JU45/1/#627389602_iBjwF-A-LB

Whilst the male was away doing its normal macho thing - defending the territory from unwanted visitors.

http://peterd-2009.smugmug.com/Recent-Photos/New-Bird-Uploads/8916554_2JU45/1/#627395349_4qGt8-A-LB

Every thing normal up to now but look at this family shot

http://peterd-2009.smugmug.com/Recent-Photos/New-Bird-Uploads/8916554_2JU45/1/#627399338_gR37v-A-LB

The 'cygnet' in front of the group looks very odd.
Unlike the rest of the group, this bird was quite noisy and gave out goose like calls. Now, I was convinced that this was really a gosling and not a cygnet. But why should the swans tolerate a gosling in their midst and the whole group be so comfortably settled together?


http://peterd-2009.smugmug.com/Recent-Photos/New-Bird-Uploads/8916554_2JU45/1/#627391514_fPd3g-A-LB

Now here is a closer view of this bird.

http://peterd-2009.smugmug.com/Recent-Photos/New-Bird-Uploads/8916554_2JU45/1/#627401322_58yeC-A-LB

Now, the head and beak shout swan except for the lack of blackon the face.

So, I wonder what the truth is. Is it a x bred goose which by chance has developed swan like features to the head? If so, how come a normally very protective family group adopting a stranger? If neither of these, then what can describe that which I have seen?

I would welcome any comments and thoughts on this. It has really got me beat.:dunno

Thanks for viewing

leaforte

Either a Gwan or a Swoose...both very rare.

Ric Grupe

Maybe the Mrs. got goosed!:D

PeterD-2009

leaforte wrote:

Either a Gwan or a Swoose...both very rare.

Thanks for your suggested names. You never know, you could be famous in naming a new species:D . All you have to do is think up the latin name .

Great comment.

PeterD-2009

Ric Grupe wrote:

Maybe the Mrs. got goosed!:D

Thanks Ric . Every one a winner. There may be some truth in what you suggest. The male swan was driving off a white goose by flying up and landing on his head.:D

PeterD-2009

2010 Update
Since seeing this 'adopted Goose' last year, I have been contacted by Neil Matthews from Dorchester who has a further update to this intriguing story. Neil has very kindly agreed to add his images to my gallery as a follow-up for others to view/debate.

I would not normally post other peoples images on this forum but, in the interest of continuity of the theme of this thread, I thought I would invite you to view the two sets of images in one gallery.

The gallery is here > http://www.imageinuk.com/Other/Adopted-Goose-with-Swans/10639789_vHtzS#627399338_gR37v

Snowgirl

Quite amazing. Has it been determined that the bird is actually a cross breed?

PeterD-2009

Snowgirl wrote: »

Quite amazing. Has it been determined that the bird is actually a cross breed?

Thank you for viewing and commenting.

Your question is one that many have debated since I posted my images of last year. I am sure we all appreciate that swans are VERY protective of their cygnets, even driving off other swans that try and approach. This 'goose' being readily accepted by the swan family is what attracted me to view the strange behaviour last year. Another thing that interested me was the long swan-like neck on the 'goose'. This has been thought possible if it were a crossbred embden (a large goose with a swan-like neck). This however does not address the swan-like bill. The crossbred embden has a normal goose bill which is short and stubby.
The images this year, taken by Neil, confirm that the affinity between the swans and 'goose' was not a co-incidence. The strange features also have not changed.
I think the jury is out on this one. I have read on the internet that goose/swans have cross-bred in the far east. Lots of questions but no answers as yet.

racer

There is a pond near my house that has about 50+ ducks that most are multiple cross breeds. There are some really messed up looking ducks there. I call it the mutt duck pond, and after taking many photos of these ducks, I would believe anything is possible. Swans and geese breeding together dosnt really suprise me. At this pond it is normal to see the geese, ducks, and swans all herded together with little mutt ducklings running around.
So if it is possible to have a gwan, then is it possible to have gucks?

PeterD-2009

racer wrote: »

There is a pond near my house that has about 50+ ducks that most are multiple cross breeds. There are some really messed up looking ducks there. I call it the mutt duck pond, and after taking many photos of these ducks, I would believe anything is possible. Swans and geese breeding together dosnt really suprise me. At this pond it is normal to see the geese, ducks, and swans all herded together with little mutt ducklings running around.
So if it is possible to have a gwan, then is it possible to have gucks?

Good morning racer and thanks for your reply. Ducks are deliberately cross-bred on farms for commercial reasons. We have a very strange looking Mallard male which mixes with the wild birds here in Langstone Harbour.
I had not heard of a swan/goose X before and there may be some other explanation for what Neil and I have seen. I know Neil has contacted the wildlife recorder for the area and a bird group. There is probably is a good explanation for this mystery and look forward to hearing it.

If more information is forthcoming then I shall post it on this thread.

PeterD-2009

Update on this story!

PeterD-2009 wrote: »

Good morning racer and thanks for your reply. Ducks are deliberately cross-bred on farms for commercial reasons. We have a very strange looking Mallard male which mixes with the wild birds here in Langstone Harbour.
I had not heard of a swan/goose X before and there may be some other explanation for what Neil and I have seen. I know Neil has contacted the wildlife recorder for the area and a bird group. There is probably is a good explanation for this mystery and look forward to hearing it.

If more information is forthcoming then I shall post it on this thread.

I promised to update this thread as more information came in.
Dave Appleton travelled to Dorset to find this bird that both Neil and I had photographed. He was successful in finding it and took more photographs which he has on his site. He also carried out a study of this bird by examining various attributes which you may find interesting to read. It would appear that this bird is a cross between Swan and Goose.
The exact parentage is difficult to to determine but Dave presents a good analysis which is easy to follow.
Thanks to both Neil and Dave this story continues and we seem to be closing in on the answer to my query of last year.
Dave's website link is http://www.gobirding.eu/Photos/Swoose.php

jwear

Thanks a very interesting read

PeterD-2009

jwear wrote: »

Thanks a very interesting read

Thank you for your reply Jeff. It's great when there is a sequel to a story. Looks as though I have made a rare find.

Lindiwe

That was interesting reading for sure. I'm curious, though, about a Black Swan being considered as a possible parent for your Swoose. I would have thought that there would be a serious lack of Black Swans in England, outside of maybe zoos?

PeterD-2009

Lindiwe wrote: »

That was interesting reading for sure. I'm curious, though, about a Black Swan being considered as a possible parent for your Swoose. I would have thought that there would be a serious lack of Black Swans in England, outside of maybe zoos?

Thanks for your reply.
Black Swans are also kept outside of zoos. Our local Garden Centre has two in their pond





It is a posibility that a Black Swan could escape from this sort of establishment or even be living with domestic Geese.
What I liked about Dave's approach was that he did not want to rule out anything.

PeterD-2009

Latest News 02 Jan 2011
Last year I contacted DERC (Dorset Environmental Record Centre) about my find and passed on details from Neil Mathews and the detailed investigative work carried out by Dave Appleton.
DERC have now posted a brief intro with urls to Dave Appleton's and my website. The link to DERC is here > http://www.derc.org.uk/general/welcome.htm and the reference is titled 'The Dorset Swoose'.
Dave has added new material to his website > http://www.gobirding.eu/Photos/Swoose.php and it is worth reading.
It has been established that this bird was born in 2004 to a Mute Swan and a Domestic Goose. The parentage of this domestic goose is still in question. It had been a well kept secret until I stumbled across it. I think that was partly because hybrids rarely live long after fledging and it's survival was something of a surprise.
Like all good stories, there remains a great mystery. Swans mate for life and are very protective of their territory with the parents ensuring it is well protected from ALL invaders. I had witnessed such activity back in 2009 when the male attacked a domestic goose which it tried to drown. How this particular hybrid Swan/Goose (Swoose) had developed an obvious bond with the adult swans is hard to understand. They will naturally drive away their own fledged young by the next breeding season.
I am pleased that this rare bird has now been officially recognised and I have asked our RSPB to consider if protection is required.

PGM

This is one interesting story! Thanks for posting.

PeterD-2009

PGM wrote: »

This is one interesting story! Thanks for posting.

Thanks Pam. I had not realised how interesting the story would be when I first found the Swoose. It's been developing over two years now with lots discovered and still more questions to debate.