Alien Bee Questions

Dooginfif20Dooginfif20 Registered Users Posts: 845 Major grins
edited August 27, 2009 in Accessories
So I have been looking at picking up some studio lighting. The studio I intern at uses alien bees and they seem pretty straight forward and seem to work great. He uses a remote trigger that Paul Buff doesn't make anymore. I was curious if anyone uses the receivers/transceivers that they offer. I was also looking at getting the cyber commander and using the transceivers that go with it. Anyone heard anything good or bad about them?
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  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited August 24, 2009
    Dooginfif20 wrote:
    I was also looking at getting the cyber commander and using the transceivers that go with it. Anyone heard anything good or bad about them?

    only good things......how well they work.....................
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    I use the basic cyber syncs (battery powered) and I love them. I can use them with my alien bees and with my canon flashes. Range is good and battery life is great. I only wish they had a loop on them to fasten them. For now I recommend a $5 bag of bongo ties.

    However I am thinking of switching to the new RadioPopper JrX system. This will allow me to control the power of not only alien bees but also my canon 580EX flashes. The alienbees cyber commander will only control the power of their monolights.


    Alienbees bees in general are the best 'pop' for the buck. They are simple to use and provide consistency.
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • Village IdiotVillage Idiot Registered Users Posts: 215 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    They're not the most consistent monolights out there and using sliders on analog strobes vs. digital controls that let you adjust lights via 1/10 stop increments means unless you're constantly testing with a light meter, you'll be sure to never have the same setup twice.

    Plus color consistency at low powers leave you with a noticeable red hue. Elinchrom D lites are a better option IMO if you need a "budget" strobe.

    The only reason I'd go with an AB setup over others is if you need a cheap portable solution. They have one of the cheapest portable setups on the market and you're not going to touch almost any other strobe setup for close to the same price.
    On a scale of 1 to 10, my awesomeness goes all the way to 11.
  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    Village Idiot wrote:
    They're not the most consistent monolights out there and using sliders on analog strobes vs. digital controls that let you adjust lights via 1/10 stop increments means unless you're constantly testing with a light meter, you'll be sure to never have the same setup twice.

    Umm unless the subject stands in the exact same spot, you set the lights in the exact same spot, you use the exact same modifiers, you control the ambient the exact same way, your model is the exact same color, your background is the exact same, The walls and ceiling is exact same, etc you will not have the exact same exposure twice.

    No matter what light you should white bal for studio work. I even recommend using a lightmeter for every setup change. But that may just be me. I know tons who just chimp and adjust.
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • Village IdiotVillage Idiot Registered Users Posts: 215 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    JohnBiggs wrote:
    Umm unless the subject stands in the exact same spot, you set the lights in the exact same spot, you use the exact same modifiers, you control the ambient the exact same way, your model is the exact same color, your background is the exact same, The walls and ceiling is exact same, etc you will not have the exact same exposure twice.

    No matter what light you should white bal for studio work. I even recommend using a lightmeter for every setup change. But that may just be me. I know tons who just chimp and adjust.

    But if you had a setup you wanted to copy for a later shoot, you wouldn't know that at f/9 your main light was 3/10 stops over half power and your fill was 1/10 over half and your two backgrounds were 3/10 over 3/4 to blow out the white backdrop. Or that you wanted to stop down your main by one step instead of trying to move a slider.

    Sliders are not very accurate. I mean, they work and it all comes down to what you prefer, but when I'm making adjustments, I want to know exactly where the power on my light is going to be at and it's convenient when I don't have to use a lightmeter if I just want to increment the power of one light by a small margin.
    On a scale of 1 to 10, my awesomeness goes all the way to 11.
  • rwellsrwells Registered Users Posts: 6,084 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    Village Idiot wrote:
    But if you had a setup you wanted to copy for a later shoot, you wouldn't know that at f/9 your main light was 3/10 stops over half power and your fill was 1/10 over half and your two backgrounds were 3/10 over 3/4 to blow out the white backdrop. Or that you wanted to stop down your main by one step instead of trying to move a slider.

    Sliders are not very accurate. I mean, they work and it all comes down to what you prefer, but when I'm making adjustments, I want to know exactly where the power on my light is going to be at and it's convenient when I don't have to use a lightmeter if I just want to increment the power of one light by a small margin.

    You might want to take a look at Paul's new AlienBee Max

    Digital among other things.
    Randy
  • Village IdiotVillage Idiot Registered Users Posts: 215 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    rwells wrote:
    You might want to take a look at Paul's new AlienBee Max

    Digital among other things.

    Which will be a welcome improvement when it hits users' hands. But iirc, it got pushed back even farther because of power supply issues in which they're scrapping the idea of using a digital power supply with automatic power switching in favor of the old analog supply that's already in use. So it's still going to be an analog light with digital controls.

    http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10041-10168

    Not to mention the Einstein that was completely scrapped. That would have been an awesome light, but he couldn't deliver on it.
    On a scale of 1 to 10, my awesomeness goes all the way to 11.
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    JohnBiggs wrote:
    Umm unless the subject stands in the exact same spot, you set the lights in the exact same spot, you use the exact same modifiers, you control the ambient the exact same way, your model is the exact same color, your background is the exact same, The walls and ceiling is exact same, etc you will not have the exact same exposure twice.

    No matter what light you should white bal for studio work. I even recommend using a lightmeter for every setup change. But that may just be me. I know tons who just chimp and adjust.

    AMEN BROTHER JOHN!!!!!
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    Village Idiot wrote:
    But if you had a setup you wanted to copy for a later shoot, you wouldn't know that at f/9 your main light was 3/10 stops over half power and your fill was 1/10 over half and your two backgrounds were 3/10 over 3/4 to blow out the white backdrop. Or that you wanted to stop down your main by one step instead of trying to move a slider.

    I think you missed the point. You are talking about adjustments in the tenths but you don't think slight positional changes are going to skew the exposure by just as much? Or the reflectiveness of the subject or the walls???

    By your method, I could just throw gaffers over the sliders once I have them set and achieve the same.
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    rwells wrote:
    You might want to take a look at Paul's new AlienBee Max

    Digital among other things.

    Paul has changed the release date to unknown for now.....the switching power supplies were not going to work as they were supposed to so he is redesigning a new analog power supply........also he had decided to make a growth movement to Switzweland and now that is hosed up also...........
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • Village IdiotVillage Idiot Registered Users Posts: 215 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    JohnBiggs wrote:
    I think you missed the point. You are talking about adjustments in the tenths but you don't think slight positional changes are going to skew the exposure by just as much? Or the reflectiveness of the subject or the walls???

    By your method, I could just throw gaffers over the sliders once I have them set and achieve the same.

    But the point is, you can have such fine adjustment. Like I said, it's personal preference but if you want precise control, sliders just won't do it unless you're using the marked spots.

    And once you have everything set, variables like what color walls you have in your house and whatever color the subject is don't change. If I have white walls in my studio, they're not going to magically become gray after the first shot that I took.

    And I realize other lights have limitations, like the Speedotron line where distance becomes your fine tuning for power. Sometimes you can't move the light back another 4' from the subject or another 4' up in the air.

    And positional changes? Not everything I shoot wiggles around, or is even an animate object for that matter.
    On a scale of 1 to 10, my awesomeness goes all the way to 11.
  • Dooginfif20Dooginfif20 Registered Users Posts: 845 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    I appreciate all the comments! Honestly I have already decided on the Alien Bees, but I was curious if anyone has used the cyber commander because I know you cant order them on the site right now. I was told that they shipped some out so someone has to have one. I dont mind the slider to adjust output. I was also curious if anyone would suggest the Pocket Wizards over what you can get from Paul Buff. I just figured it was a tad bit cheaper to get them through Alien Bee and then it would all be uniform.
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  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited August 25, 2009
    PW's are in my opinon way too much money for the regular studio pro.....I have been using 16 channel ebay triggers for over 2 yrs now and love them......I have never needed to fire my strobes at 350-400 ft yet......but the ones I use are good to about 150ft and that will cover any church I will be shooting in or reception hall for that matter...................
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2009
    All I can add is I've been using the ebay triggers in the studio and have had no problems with my Bee's.

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2009
    Radio popper is releasing new inexpensive wireless triggers that will allow you to adjust output on the alien bees and most current speedlights!

    I believe they come out this week.
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • bendruckerphotobendruckerphoto Registered Users Posts: 579 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2009
    I would love to by the RadioPoppers. Unfortunately, their PX (TTL compatible) system sucks compared to the way PocketWizard does it, so I am still waiting on Nikon PocketWizard ControlTLs (supposed to come in the fall).
    New Jersey Portrait and Event Photographer: Ben Drucker Photography // Find me on: Twitter // Facebook // LinkedIn

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  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2009
    bendruckerphoto wrote:
    I would love to by the RadioPoppers. Unfortunately, their PX (TTL compatible) system sucks compared to the way PocketWizard does it, so I am still waiting on Nikon PocketWizard ControlTLs (supposed to come in the fall).

    True, but pocket wizard is already having compatability issues while the new radio popper JRx is less likely to become incompatable in the future because of its simpler triggering mechanism.
    (http://www.pocketwizard.com/support/tech_bulletins/5dmii/)

    And get ready to fiddle with these work arounds to get decent range (http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/technology/range/)
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • bendruckerphotobendruckerphoto Registered Users Posts: 579 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2009
    JohnBiggs wrote:
    True, but pocket wizard is already having compatability issues while the new radio popper JRx is less likely to become incompatable in the future because of its simpler triggering mechanism.
    (http://www.pocketwizard.com/support/tech_bulletins/5dmii/)

    And get ready to fiddle with these work arounds to get decent range (http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/technology/range/)

    With me it comes down to this. Not only are the PocketWizards slightly cheaper than the PXs, they wouldn't need a triggering device. Essentially, I'd have to drop $250 on an SU-800, which is still a clunky solution. The range issues are due to the high amount of interference from the 580EX. I'm a Nikon shooter, and they've said there will be no problem with Nikon speedlights.

    Also, and equally important, PocketWizards are widely available. You can rent a Plus II, or a Flex TT5 for $15/day if you need an extra for a specific shoot. RadioPoppers? You'll have to buy a new receiver for $250.
    New Jersey Portrait and Event Photographer: Ben Drucker Photography // Find me on: Twitter // Facebook // LinkedIn

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  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2009
    bendruckerphoto wrote:
    With me it comes down to this. Not only are the PocketWizards slightly cheaper than the PXs, they wouldn't need a triggering device. Essentially, I'd have to drop $250 on an SU-800, which is still a clunky solution. The range issues are due to the high amount of interference from the 580EX. I'm a Nikon shooter, and they've said there will be no problem with Nikon speedlights.

    Also, and equally important, PocketWizards are widely available. You can rent a Plus II, or a Flex TT5 for $15/day if you need an extra for a specific shoot. RadioPoppers? You'll have to buy a new receiver for $250.

    I'm talking about the new JRx. Its about $60 for the transmitter and $90 for the reciver. $139 for the pair. You can pre order now.
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • bendruckerphotobendruckerphoto Registered Users Posts: 579 Major grins
    edited August 26, 2009
    I know. The problem is that I need TTL transmitters as well. I need to mix and match manual and TTL flash, and also use the same transmitter, so PocketWizard is my best choice. The ability to rent them is invaluable to me as well. I can't imagine investing $1000 in a system where if one ever broke or I needed an extra, I'd have to buy them online and wait.
    New Jersey Portrait and Event Photographer: Ben Drucker Photography // Find me on: Twitter // Facebook // LinkedIn

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  • Village IdiotVillage Idiot Registered Users Posts: 215 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2009
    bendruckerphoto wrote:
    I know. The problem is that I need TTL transmitters as well. I need to mix and match manual and TTL flash, and also use the same transmitter, so PocketWizard is my best choice. The ability to rent them is invaluable to me as well. I can't imagine investing $1000 in a system where if one ever broke or I needed an extra, I'd have to buy them online and wait.

    Plus my Sekonic 758 and Profoto setup don't have built in Radio Popper trigeers...
    On a scale of 1 to 10, my awesomeness goes all the way to 11.
  • bendruckerphotobendruckerphoto Registered Users Posts: 579 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2009
    Village Idiot wrote:
    Plus my Sekonic 758 and Profoto setup don't have built in Radio Popper trigeers...

    Forgot about that as well. The Sekonic 358 is on my list of stuff to get. You can add the PW capability for $50.
    New Jersey Portrait and Event Photographer: Ben Drucker Photography // Find me on: Twitter // Facebook // LinkedIn

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  • Village IdiotVillage Idiot Registered Users Posts: 215 Major grins
    edited August 27, 2009
    bendruckerphoto wrote:
    Forgot about that as well. The Sekonic 358 is on my list of stuff to get. You can add the PW capability for $50.

    Actually, that's what I have and I love it. And I lied about the Profotos too.
    On a scale of 1 to 10, my awesomeness goes all the way to 11.
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