Venturing into Multiple Flash Work

jwashburn

I am strongly looking at getting a couple of SB600/800/900 flashes for my Nikon D200 possible soon to be D300 or 700.

My question is whether or not I need any type of remote transmitter devices such as a Pocket Wizard. From what I can tell the D200 pop up will work as a commander and I can set flash power and groups from my camera, but I not sure if I am missing anything. I have watched the online Nikon video and done some reading, but I still have a few questions. I will be shooting mostly BMX, skateboarding, that type of thing.

JohnBiggs

Honestly? I went the way you are about to and I wish I didn't.

The built in transmitter sucks in daylight//outdoors which is what I think you will be doing.

The flashes are pricey

I'd consider one SB600 for any time you are doing on camera work.

Then I'd consider Lumopro LP120 for all the rest(http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,12311.html)

Yep it looks sucky, but it works well with radios and has decent power. So they often are back ordered. (Read more here:http://strobist.blogspot.com/2009/03/manual-flashes-two-debuts-and-adoption.html)

Then get radios (I use www.alienbees.com, Cyber Syncs), and stands (LumoPro LP604 from mpex.com)

jwashburn

JohnBiggs wrote:

Honestly? I went the way you are about to and I wish I didn't.

The built in transmitter sucks in daylight//outdoors which is what I think you will be doing.

The flashes are pricey

I'd consider one SB600 for any time you are doing on camera work.

Then I'd consider Lumopro LP120 for all the rest(http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,12311.html)

Yep it looks sucky, but it works well with radios and has decent power. So they often are back ordered. (Read more here:http://strobist.blogspot.com/2009/03/manual-flashes-two-debuts-and-adoption.html)

Then get radios (I use www.alienbees.com, Cyber Syncs), and stands (LumoPro LP604 from mpex.com)

Cool thanks for the info. Ill check it out. this is the type of infromation I was looking for.

edit:

It looks good. I have a question though. Do you find you miss the TTL and Auto functions? Since I am not very experienced with flash photography am I putting myself in a tough spot or is it pretty easy to dial in flash settings. I will be shooting mostly in mid day and twilight

JohnBiggs

jwashburn wrote:

It looks good. I have a question though. Do you find you miss the TTL and Auto functions? Since I am not very experienced with flash photography am I putting myself in a tough spot or is it pretty easy to dial in flash settings. I will be shooting mostly in mid day and twilight

Except for the most expensive radios (The newest pocketwizards) you will not get those functions anyways.

Indoors, or where your built in remote can reach you can maintain that with all nikon flashes. Nikon is supposed to be good with it. I use canon and tried similar and I would get some crazy exposures. It wasn't consistent, always changing, etc.

Now this will get flamed. There are a lot of people who have good luck with the built in multiple flash systems.

The manual stuff actually wasn't as hard as I thought. I can walk in a room and guess what setting I need pretty well.

In the mean time, you could buy a SB 600/800 and one lumopro kit. Try it out and see what you think. If you can't get it, the $120 lumo pro will sell pretty easily. Shoot, PM me and I have a few buyers who will take it for $110.

jwashburn

JohnBiggs wrote:

Except for the most expensive radios (The newest pocketwizards) you will not get those functions anyways.

Indoors, or where your built in remote can reach you can maintain that with all nikon flashes. Nikon is supposed to be good with it. I use canon and tried similar and I would get some crazy exposures. It wasn't consistent, always changing, etc.

Now this will get flamed. There are a lot of people who have good luck with the built in multiple flash systems.

The manual stuff actually wasn't as hard as I thought. I can walk in a room and guess what setting I need pretty well.

In the mean time, you could buy a SB 600/800 and one lumopro kit. Try it out and see what you think. If you can't get it, the $120 lumo pro will sell pretty easily. Shoot, PM me and I have a few buyers who will take it for $110.

Thanks for the info. I am going to start with a 600 without a doubt. I am going to try and figure out how to use one flash first. Then as I move forward I can look at my other options.

Thanks again for the response.

pathfinder

If you can tell your subject where to sit or stand and they will do it, go with manual off camera flash, whether you shoot Nikon, Canon or a point and shoot. Once the flash to subject is fixed, the exposure never changes, so you can shoot in Manual Mode to your heart's content.

If you are going to shoot "candids" of mobile children, who will not sit still, but be in constant motion ( and hence their flash to subject distance will continuously vary ) go with the OEM versions of iTTL or eTTL where the flash will help meter their output for you in real time. Canon and Nikon's "wireless" IR controls work much better indoors, where there are walls for the signals to bounce off. They can struggle out of doors in bright sunlight/ I use Canon's system out of doors at times, but the maximum reach is about 20 feet or less for reliable triggering. Sounds like the Nikon system is similar.

Both systems ( EM flash versus Manual Flash ) have advantages, and dis-advantages. The trick is to know which you want and when. I use both versions of flash in the Canon world. If you plan to use Manual flash, a flash meter is a handy addition to your pack. You can live without it, but then I can live without indoor plumbing too, but I don't want to anymore.

JohnBiggs

pathfinder wrote:

If you are going to shoot "candids" of mobile children, who will not sit still, but be in constant motion ( and hence their flash to subject distance will continuously vary ) go with the OEM versions of iTTL or eTTL where the flash will help meter their output for you in real time.

How are you triggering these OEM speedlights outdoors with bright sunlight or even low sunlight but more than 20 feet?

There is only one way I know of, PocketWizard FlexTT. Thats $200 for the camera and $200 per light and there are already problems. 1. Huge interference problems with canon speedlights. 2. Already compatability problems even though pocket wizard claims they are 'future proof usb upgradeable'.

I use a flash in manual all the time with changing distances. It's just something you need to prepare for. First, you can plan flash placement better. Second, Time your shots and the exposure for the best opportunity. Etc.

BTW: Major sports photographers use manual flashes, they're called house lights, even some minor ones use speedlights in a similar fashion: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/02/on-assignment-speedlighting-college-gym.html

angevin1

JohnBiggs wrote:

How are you triggering these OEM speedlights outdoors with bright sunlight or even low sunlight but more than 20 feet?

There is only one way I know of, PocketWizard FlexTT. Thats $200 for the camera and $200 per light and there are already problems. 1. Huge interference problems with canon speedlights. 2. Already compatability problems even though pocket wizard claims they are 'future proof usb upgradeable'.

I use a flash in manual all the time with changing distances. It's just something you need to prepare for. First, you can plan flash placement better. Second, Time your shots and the exposure for the best opportunity. Etc.

BTW: Major sports photographers use manual flashes, they're called house lights, even some minor ones use speedlights in a similar fashion: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/02/on-assignment-speedlighting-college-gym.html

You were thinking you might get flamed!

I am one of the ones JohnBiggs warned you about!

I use the SB line-up 600/800 quite successfully. indoors, out of doors. Even between the two: Shooting through closed window.

I often read that bright Sunlight causes problems. And somehow it must be causing problems for folks. But the light dynamics should not be a problem outside in whatever light. I have measured 98 ft. direct line of sight with my SB600 commanded by camera and SB800. Closer than that I rarely miss an exposure. If I do miss, it is because of the power/recharge function and me shooting too quickly between flashes.

And like Pathfinder suggested, if your target is mobile having the TTL function working for you is a huge plus!

I advocate FOR the Nikon CLS flash system, simply because it has worked so well for me.

When you get your SB600, just go out and play with it and find its limits, then decide if you can work within those limitations.

pathfinder

I can't speak for Nikon wireless system, but Canon's system will work out of doors, or at least mine does. You do need to be careful to keep the red sensor eye of the slave pointed at the master, and they need to be within about 20 feet or less. It sounds like the Nikon system has less of a range limitation out of doors. Canon needs to improve their non-radio system limits, I agree.

Speaking of the Pocket Wizard FlexTT and MiniTT, they offer a means to radio controlled ETTL that can be quite helpful. I do like mine, but they have not replaced an SE-E2 indoors for me quite yet.

I stand by what I said - if your model will stand still, and you can direct them and tell them exactly where to stand, fixed manual flash at a known distance from the subject is great, because the exposure never changes. Dial in your camera in manual aperture and manual shutter speed, and you are ready to rock.

If, however, you are shooting kids running around in a playroom, think monkeys in a cage at the zoo, the ability of your flash to modulate its output based on flash to subject distance real time, can increase your percentage of home runs dramatically. Or maybe I just am not that good with math to calculate from the guide number and distance what the aperture needs to be.

I spent months trying to figure out a way to avoid having both IR and radio control, and found that neither was a complete solution for my needs. The FlexTT and MiniTT PW's have helped now, but I still use both systems ( IR and radio triggers ) from time to time, and even throw in optical slave triggers as well.