My computer is dead--need a new one, HELP!!!

lizzard_nyc · September 2, 2009

Hello All,

Let me just start by saying that I know more about photography than I do computers--which is to say I know nothing about computers, so bare with me.

My old desktop crashed and burned beyond repair. I have since taken up photography and will be using CS3 to process my photos.

I've been doing enough research to leave me befuddled.

Ok here are my needs/questions:
1. Desktop under $500 (is that doable?) I dont' care if it's rebuilt/used.

2. What is the minimum RAM I need to store my photos, run CS3, store tons of music, play videogames, use the net etc.

3. Do ALL computers now a days come with Vista? I've yet to hear anyone say anything positive about Vista. what's more, all the Vista is 64 bit, which leads to #4.

4. For the sake of family harmony, videogames will also be played on this computer (Worlds at War or something plus a bunch of others) which from reading other blogs, are not compatible with the 64 bit business.

5. I was told that I can pay for a downgrade to leave Vista for XP--Are you serious? Pay for a downgrade?--no wonder our economy is in the tank, but I digress.

6. Do I need to buy a video card?

7. Also I was told by a tech person at work that Windows is getting away from XP and will no longer be supporting XP in the near future, so why downgrade and what does "not support mean"?

8. I'd like world peace too, but I'll settle for a basic computer that doesnt' run as slow as molasses, for a beginner photographer whose family plays videogames and listens to music and who does not have a house in the Hamptons and therefore price is an issue.

Any recommendations or at least clarification on the above, specifically regarding Vista would be appreciated.

Help me Rhonda, help help me Rhonda!

Richard · September 2, 2009

lizzard_nyc wrote:

Hello All,

Let me just start by saying that I know more about photography than I do computers--which is to say I know nothing about computers, so bare with me.

My old desktop crashed and burned beyond repair. I have since taken up photography and will be using CS3 to process my photos.

I've been doing enough research to leave me befuddled.

Ok here are my needs/questions:
1. Desktop under $500 (is that doable?) I dont' care if it's rebuilt/used.

Assuming your monitor is OK, it's doable. If you look for a refurbished machine (Dell has some pretty good offers usually) you can get a lot of bang for the buck.

2. What is the minimum RAM I need to store my photos, run CS3, store tons of music, play videogames, use the net etc.

RAM has nothing to do with storage--that's a matter of disk space. I run CS3 quite comfortably on an XP machine with 3GB. However, if I were to replace my machine today, I would probably look for a minimum of 4GB and use a 64-bit operating system.

3. Do ALL computers now a days come with Vista? I've yet to hear anyone say anything positive about Vista. what's more, all the Vista is 64 bit, which leads to #4.

Well, a few computers come with OS-X, but let's not get into that. If you are staying with Windows, most of what you see in the shops will have Vista, but Win7 is scheduled for release in October. Win7 seems to have addressed most of the problems in Vista, and soon you should see machines for sale that include a free upgrade to Win7. BTW, both Vista and Win7 are available in 32-bit versions as well as 64. You will not be able to take advantage of anything more than about 3.5 GB of RAM if you use a 32-bit operating system.

4. For the sake of family harmony, videogames will also be played on this computer (Worlds at War or something plus a bunch of others) which from reading other blogs, are not compatible with the 64 bit business.

I'm not a gamer, so I don't know much about the issues here. In general, 32 bit programs can run perfectly on a 64-bit operating system. The incompatibility issues mostly have to do with older hardware that may not have well-behaved drivers for 64-bit systems.

5. I was told that I can pay for a downgrade to leave Vista for XP--Are you serious? Pay for a downgrade?--no wonder our economy is in the tank, but I digress.

I went out of my way to get an XP machine when most new offerings were Vista. We have a pre-release version of Win7 running on one machine in the house. It performs well and has not had a single problem (so far). I wouldn't look for an XP machine today, but I would make sure that I don't have to pay anything extra to get to Win7.

6. Do I need to buy a video card?

Yes, if you want to run video games. They are much more demanding than CS3.

7. Also I was told by a tech person at work that Windows is getting away from XP and will no longer be supporting XP in the near future, so why downgrade and what does "not support mean"?

Msft is going to be supporting XP much longer than they are stating, as many large, corporate customers are in no hurry to dump it. It also is their only alternative to Linux on small, cheap netbook computers. Still, if you want to avoid Vista, XP is looking back, while Win7 looks to the future.

8. I'd like world peace too, but I'll settle for a basic computer that doesnt' run as slow as molasses, for a beginner photographer whose family plays videogames and listens to music and who does not have a house in the Hamptons and therefore price is an issue.

Help me Rhonda, help help me Rhonda!

The good news is that today's hardware is far superior to anything offered even three years ago. Even a modest machine has plenty of pep.

lizzard_nyc · September 2, 2009

Holy smokes Richard, you answered my questions and then some!--Thanks:D .

Maybe a gamer/photog on the forum can tell me for sure about running some of the old games on a 64 bit machine as I was thinking of getting 4GB and the 32 bit program only can use the 3.5 or under, which I did not know til just now.

I will look into Dell's refurb programs then and see about upgrading to Windows 7--Paying for a downgrade just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

You are the best--thanks for the detailed info--and for using little words, lol.

Pupator · September 8, 2009

The Dell Outlet is indeed the way to go. You can certainly stay under that $500 mark and get something decent.

The old games will play fine on the 64-bit OS - they'll just play in 32 bit mode. They'll have access to all the RAM they need*.

Any PC you buy right now is going to come with a free upgrade to Windows 7. And by the way - I'd be happy to say good things about Vista if you need to hear them.

* The 3.5 GB limit is not really a limitation of a 32-bit OS. (Don't believe me? Check Windows Server 2000 machines with dozens of GB of RAM.) It's a licensing issue. Not to mention, what matters is whether or not the OS can address the RAM, not the game. If the OS can, the game can make use of it.

leaforte · September 8, 2009

I am also hoping for the whirled peas. (photo please).

Richard · September 9, 2009

Pupator wrote:

* The 3.5 GB limit is not really a limitation of a 32-bit OS. (Don't believe me? Check Windows Server 2000 machines with dozens of GB of RAM.) It's a licensing issue. Not to mention, what matters is whether or not the OS can address the RAM, not the game. If the OS can, the game can make use of it.

Um, it's been a while since I did any programming, but this doesn't sound exactly right to me. Unless the application was specifically compiled to check for a 64 bit environment, I think the executable will only be aware of 32 bits, which means that its address space is limited to 4 GB. Don't know how many older apps look to see whether they can run in 64 bit mode. Bottom line: in the absence of specific information, don't count on it.

Pupator · September 9, 2009

Richard wrote:

Um, it's been a while since I did any programming, but this doesn't sound exactly right to me. Unless the application was specifically compiled to check for a 64 bit environment, I think the executable will only be aware of 32 bits, which means that its address space is limited to 4 GB. Don't know how many older apps look to see whether they can run in 64 bit mode. Bottom line: in the absence of specific information, don't count on it.

I was using short-hand to save time, but that's probably why it didn't sound right to you.

The assumption (implicit in my comment) is that no single game would want (or even come close to) 4GB of memory. In the kind of system we're talking about, each came can address it's own 4GB (thus "as much as it wants"). Even if the game is written in 32-bit (and without PAE) - if there are 4GB of memory free (say on a system with 8GB) it can still address a full 4GB without having to use the disk instead.

Richard · September 9, 2009

Pupator wrote:

I was using short-hand to save time, but that's probably why it didn't sound right to you.

The assumption (implicit in my comment) is that no single game would want (or even come close to) 4GB of memory. In the kind of system we're talking about, each came can address it's own 4GB (thus "as much as it wants"). Even if the game is written in 32-bit (and without PAE) - if there are 4GB of memory free (say on a system with 8GB) it can still address a full 4GB without having to use the disk instead.

Ah, OK, I didn't get that at first, but what you are saying here is certainly correct. Now, why a gamer would want to play several games at once is another matter.

chrisjohnson · September 9, 2009

Vista is fine - don't believe all you read. However you do need 2GB RAM versus 1GB for XP.

XP is on the way out - Microsoft tend to support the last 2 operating systems and within 12 months XP will be #3. Still there are doubtless people still running Windows 98 so if you only have 500$ to spend then I would not worry too much about whether the OS is XP or Vista.

My wife uses CS3 on an XP machine with 1MB and it works. Hangs every now and again if you open too many files but nothing much to worry about for an "amateur".

RogerLund · September 9, 2009

Dell Deals, http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/us/segments/bsd/dell-deals-desktops?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

Now, 64 bit will cost you more, and unless your games are over four years old, they will work in 64 bit.

For gaming, I would recommend ati 3870 or nicer, a nvidia 9600 or newer.

Which leads me to the Dell XPS 630 witch is over budget
http://www.dell.com/us/en/business/desktops/xpsdt_630/pd.aspx?refid=xpsdt_630&s=bsd&cs=04&~oid=us~en~4~xpsdt_630_anav1~~

Scott_Quier · September 9, 2009

I couldn't help myself
Depending on what "crashed and burned beyond repair" really means, my first thought would be to:

Determine what parts from you old machine are current enough to use
Buy replacement parts from some place, Newegg.com for example
Build the new computer
Download a copy of Win7 RC from Microsoft (or PM me, I'll send you a copy) - this is completely legal and will run until the end of March 2010.
Buy an upgrade of Win 7 (Home Premium) - you should be able to pre-order from places like Amazon, CostCo, etc for something like $100. You will then get that software in the mail on or about 22 Oct 2009
Hire a high-school gamer (a kid who plays games and builds his/her own computer from parts) for $50 to $100 to salvage usable parts from your old machine and build you a new one

lizzard_nyc wrote:

1. Desktop under $500 (is that doable?) I dont' care if it's rebuilt/used.

Yes, especially if you still have useable parts in your old computer - see above.

lizzard_nyc wrote:

2. What is the minimum RAM I need to store my photos, run CS3, store tons of music, play videogames, use the net etc.

Memory is used to run programs. Hard drive is used to store data. Running Vista, 2GB is about the minimum you want for memory. Win7 is even more frugal with memory. I've been running one release or another since May. Nice. With 4GB, you will be able to do just about anything you want.

lizzard_nyc wrote:

3. Do ALL computers now a days come with Vista? I've yet to hear anyone say anything positive about Vista. what's more, all the Vista is 64 bit, which leads to #4.

All new computers come with Vista installed. However, they also usually have an update coupon (or some other vehicle) to upgrade to Win7 when it is released. You really, really, really want to upgrade to Win7 - it kicks it all over both Vista and WinXP.

lizzard_nyc wrote:

4. For the sake of family harmony, videogames will also be played on this computer (Worlds at War or something plus a bunch of others) which from reading other blogs, are not compatible with the 64 bit business.

This is no longer much of a concern as there are very few games that will not run on Win7 x64.

lizzard_nyc wrote:

5. I was told that I can pay for a downgrade to leave Vista for XP--Are you serious? Pay for a downgrade?--no wonder our economy is in the tank, but I digress.

I wouldn't do this. Win7 is the bomb.

lizzard_nyc wrote:

6. Do I need to buy a video card?

You need a video card to translate the information from the computer to somthing that can be displayed on the monitor, but there is a better than even chance that you can salvage the video card from your old computer - unless the video is integrated into the motherboard, in which case you will need to get one for your new computer. But, if you are not building a replacement computer but are, instead, buying one this will not be an issue as one will be a part of the new computer.

lizzard_nyc wrote:

7. Also I was told by a tech person at work that Windows is getting away from XP and will no longer be supporting XP in the near future, so why downgrade and what does "not support mean"?

Near future - ummm .... not so true. Even with the release of Win7, MS will continue to support WinXP (at least with security updates) for a number of years to come. They are still doing this for Windows 2000 (yes, I have Win2K installed on a laptop for some things). And, as has already been noted, there are large segements of the business world that are reluctant to migrate away from WinXP in the near future. MS would be cutting off a limb should the elect to abandon WinXP.

lizzard_nyc wrote:

8. I'd like world peace too, but I'll settle for a basic computer that doesnt' run as slow as molasses, for a beginner photographer whose family plays videogames and listens to music and who does not have a house in the Hamptons and therefore price is an issue.

As I said, depending on what parts are salvagable from you dead computer, you should be able to build a replacement (and one that is faster than the old one) for well under your $500 budget limit.

Here's an example of what is possible:

The above assumes that all that is left of your old computer is the case. I put this configuration together in about 10 minutes, assuming the NewEgg on-line reviews (from previous purchasers was the real deal). I'm sure that it could be better optimized to either reduce cost and/or improve performance. But, I'm confident this configuration would run and probably run better than what you already have, and all for about $520 (+ s/h). Of course, any part you can salvage from you old computer and reuse would reduce this price tag.

lizzard_nyc · September 9, 2009

Whoa! I have not looked at this thread in a couple of days so I thought it was dead, thanks for all the replies.

Scott, I was told by my brother-in-law a tech guy who puts computers together for a living that it was dead--now he may have used this word because he knows I don't get the tech language--so I am printing this entire thread out and I will see if he can help me salvage some of my old equipment. I don't even know what kind of video card I currently have.

Either way, if I have salvagable equipment or not, I will go the refurb route with Dell.

Still don't understand computers, but I know a whole lot more than I did just yesterday, so thansk to all who replied.

I will have to re-read this a few times:)

Glad to know Vista is not so bad, but looks like I'm just upgrading to Windows 7 to save myself some serious hassle.

chrisjohnson · September 18, 2009

If Windows 7 really does save you hassle early on versus using the now mature Vista, it will be the first new OS in 25 years to achieve this feat.

I'll be waiting at least for service pack 1 on Windows 7 before I move. I suppose the "geeks" - no disrespect - moved already with the beta but personally, seeing that there are no earth shattering features in Windows 7, I am happy to wait until several million people tell me it is stable and sits quietly in the background where it belongs.

PS Adding to this post. I have been running Vista Business on my Toshiba Portege for a couple of years - the OS has been rock solid. So my trust in Vista is not half-hearted - it just works.

Richard · September 18, 2009

goldenballs wrote:

If Windows 7 really does save you hassle versus using the now mature Vista, it will be the first new OS in 25 years to achieve this feat.

I'll be waiting at least for service pack 1 on Windows 7 before I move.

In my experience, Win7 RC1 was a lot more stable and performed better than Vista. YMMV, of course. You are correct that SP1 will fix some problems and SP2 will fix others, no doubt. However, a lot more changed in the Windows world from XP to Vista (new driver model, new network stack, big change in security model) than will change from Vista to Win7. In Microsoft terms, it's more like the change from Win2K to XP, which was not very traumatic for most users.

Scott_Quier · September 18, 2009

Richard wrote:

In my experience, Win7 RC1 was a lot more stable and performed better than Vista. YMMV, of course. You are correct that SP1 will fix some problems and SP2 will fix others, no doubt. However, a lot more changed in the Windows world from XP to Vista (new driver model, new network stack, big change in security model) than will change from Vista to Win7. In Microsoft terms, it's more like the change from Win2K to XP, which was not very traumatic for most users.

On the surface, there's not a lot of difference between Vista and Win7. It's under the covers where a lot of the differences are to be found. Vista has problems managing memory resources in an intelligent manner - these issues have been, largely, overcome in Win7. The Win7 RC1 was stable. The "Release to Manufacturing" (RTM) build (that which is going to to distributed on Oct 22) is even more so. Excellent driver support - the RTM build has drivers for all the devices on all seven computers in my home (save one device on my son's custom built laptop - less than 2 weeks old) right out of the gate. I had an issue with the "integrated" web-cam on my 2yo laptop. About a month after RTM, MS released the device driver for the web-cam and delivered it via their Windows Update process.

Is it for everybody? I don't know. Is it the best O/S MS has released? Probably - I do believe, on it's initial release, it'll be the most stable, complete, and hardened (against mal-ware) O/S MS has ever released. Is it better than Vista - IMO yup. Is it better than WinXP-SP4, no question in what I use for a mind.

It'll be interesting to see what will be included in SP1.

dlplumer · September 18, 2009

or .......get yourself a real machine with a really good operating system and pay it off over time. It is called an iMac and the operating system is Snow Leopard.

(Someone had to say this).:D

If you absolutely can not afford it, well then, never mind.:cry

Newsy · September 18, 2009

dlplumer wrote:

or .......get yourself a real machine with a really good operating system and pay it off over time. It is called an iMac and the operating system is Snow Leopard. (Someone had to say this).:D

See points #4 and #8 in the OP's original post. I'm not so sure a Mac would be the best solution to support an existing collection of video games.

.

Pupator · September 18, 2009

dlplumer wrote:

or .......get yourself a real machine with a really good operating system and pay it off over time. It is called an iMac and the operating system is Snow Leopard. (Someone had to say this).:D

If you absolutely can not afford it, well then, never mind.:cry

*Sigh*

And the hunt it still on for a Mac person who isn't obnoxious.

dlplumer · September 18, 2009

Pupator wrote:

*Sigh*

And the hunt it still on for a Mac person who isn't obnoxious.

and a Pastor with a sense a humor (sigh)

Pupator · September 18, 2009

Oh, you were kidding? My mistake. I thought you really did think she should buy a Mac instead. Is that untrue?

You aren't the first, the only, nor certainly the worst around here. Your's was quite innocent and I apologize for not putting a smiley or something on my post to indicate hyperbole. It's not your fault but it is true that it's simply impossible to ask any question about a computer on Dgrin and not have someone tell you to "get a mac," even if your requirements from the outset obviously prohibit it. Maybe that's what you meant with "someone had to say this," but I don't think so.

Again, my apologies for an unfair generalization and the lack of a winking smiley.

By the way- the link in your profile to your website is broken. I think you have an @ sign when you should have a . You've got some beautiful shots in your Toroweap gallery.

My computer is dead--need a new one, HELP!!!

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