I need help

Kopfjager

I need some help. I'm as new as they come,I have only owned a POS point & shoot that I hardly used. I took these pictures at a hockey game and would like to know how to make them better and why. Also what settings could be used to freeze the puck. I am using a Canon 50D with a Canon 24-105L IS USM set at f4,1/200, 800 iso without a flash. I do not want to be taught how to take good pictures but would rather learn to take great pictures, I do not have thin skin so I can take the criticism. Thanks.

aktse

Kopfjager wrote:

I need some help. I'm as new as they come,I have only owned a POS point & shoot that I hardly used. I took these pictures at a hockey game and would like to know how to make them better and why. Also what settings could be used to freeze the puck. I am using a Canon 50D with a Canon 24-105L IS USM set at f4,1/200, 800 iso without a flash. I do not want to be taught how to take good pictures but would rather learn to take great pictures, I do not have thin skin so I can take the criticism. Thanks

The lighting in that rink is pretty good for ice hockey. In general, I would recommend a faster glass. To freeze the puck, you need a much faster shutter split and you need to increase your ISO.

My hockey photography tips can be found in this thread

Kopfjager

aktse wrote:

The lighting in that rink is pretty good for ice hockey. In general, I would recommend a faster glass. To freeze the puck, you need a much faster shutter split and you need to increase your ISO.

My hockey photography tips can be found in this thread

aktse-
Thanks for the tips. The 24-105L is the only lens that I own at this time, I just bought the camera & lens. This is not ice hockey, it is roller hockey and the floor has kind of a grey cast to it. Can I make the equipment that I have work?

aktse

Kopfjager wrote:

aktse-
Thanks for the tips. The 24-105L is the only lens that I own at this time, I just bought the camera & lens. This is not ice hockey, it is roller hockey and the floor has kind of a grey cast to it. Can I make the equipment that I have work?

Roller hockey is similar to ice hockey -- indoors, fast action, poor lighting, through scratched glas.

You keeper rate won't be very high and you need to set your expectations correctly, but you can get some decent shots.

1) Read my thread again... nearly everything applies. Actually, everything applies except for one tidbit and I would still do it in a pinch.
2) Pick your shooting spots and know the limits of your focal lengths. You won't be able to shoot across the rink. Also, anticipate plays and shots.
3) Shoot wide open (f/4 for you), bump up the ISO to 1600, and up the shutter speeds to the fastest without underexposing too much. I don't think it's possible for you, but I like 1/500 or faster
4) Custom white balance
5) Post process for "pop"

and forgot to say, welcome to dgrin

Kopfjager

aktse wrote:

Roller hockey is similar to ice hockey -- indoors, fast action, poor lighting, through scratched glas.

You keeper rate won't be very high and you need to set your expectations correctly, but you can get some decent shots.

1) Read my thread again... nearly everything applies. Actually, everything applies except for one tidbit and I would still do it in a pinch.
2) Pick your shooting spots and know the limits of your focal lengths. You won't be able to shoot across the rink. Also, anticipate plays and shots.
3) Shoot wide open (f/4 for you), bump up the ISO to 1600, and up the shutter speeds to the fastest without underexposing too much. I don't think it's possible for you, but I like 1/500 or faster
4) Custom white balance
5) Post process for "pop"

and forgot to say, welcome to dgrin

Thanks again for the help. I will give a try with the Open leagues( semi-pro speeds) and adjust for the Elite league( NHL speeds).

cmkultradome

Welcome to Dgrin!! I've been shooting ice hockey for the last 2 years and have learned a lot from aktse. I agree that since you can only go to f4, you should boost up the ISO to 1600. You will see more noise but if you run the photos through a software program (i.e Neat Image, Noise Ninja) it will clean them up. I shoot with a Canon 40D, ISO 1600, 70-200 2.8 (non-IS). I think the 50D is even better at higher ISOs. Custom white balance also seems to make a huge difference.

If you can, start saving for the 70-200 2.8. It makes a world of difference for indoor sports. I also shoot gymnastics and wrestling. I picked up mine used for about $800 but for now it is the only lens I use when I'm at the rink or the gym. I use the non-IS version. I'm now saving up for the 85 1.8, more for gymnastics, but I've also heard its good for hockey. Good luck and keep on shooting.

Stephanie

Kopfjager

cmkultradome wrote:

Welcome to Dgrin!! I've been shooting ice hockey for the last 2 years and have learned a lot from aktse. I agree that since you can only go to f4, you should boost up the ISO to 1600. You will see more noise but if you run the photos through a software program (i.e Neat Image, Noise Ninja) it will clean them up. I shoot with a Canon 40D, ISO 1600, 70-200 2.8 (non-IS). I think the 50D is even better at higher ISOs. Custom white balance also seems to make a huge difference.

If you can, start saving for the 70-200 2.8. It makes a world of difference for indoor sports. I also shoot gymnastics and wrestling. I picked up mine used for about $800 but for now it is the only lens I use when I'm at the rink or the gym. I use the non-IS version. I'm now saving up for the 85 1.8, more for gymnastics, but I've also heard its good for hockey. Good luck and keep on shooting.

Stephanie

Thanks Stephanie for the info. I had planned on getting a 70-200 2.8 but was not sure if I would need something bigger. What is the advantadge with the 85 1.8 and what aplication is it best suited for? Thanks again,
Don

run_kmc

Kopfjager wrote:

Thanks Stephanie for the info. I had planned on getting a 70-200 2.8 but was not sure if I would need something bigger. What is the advantadge with the 85 1.8 and what aplication is it best suited for? Thanks again,
Don

The advantage of an 85mm f/1.8 is, relative to what you are currently using, the f/1.8. It's (someone correct me if I'm wrong) just over two full stops faster than f4, so you'll have faster shutter speeds. The downside is that you'll be fixed at 85mm. For most applications, that's not a problem at all, but it's not ideal for sports, especially hockey where your movement is limited.

For sports, I'd ideally have a zoom with a constant aperture of, say, f/2.8 than a prime, no matter the speed.

aktse

Kopfjager wrote:

Thanks again for the help. I will give a try with the Open leagues( semi-pro speeds) and adjust for the Elite league( NHL speeds).

A wrote a few posts about shooting NHL hockey. It's linked in the thread that I keep pointing out to you. However, my suggestion is for to start with kid or low level adult leagues first before you start shooting the pro level games if you really want to hone your skills. It's going to take a lot longer to learn if you spray and pray route.

Kopfjager wrote:

I had planned on getting a 70-200 2.8 but was not sure if I would need something bigger. What is the advantadge with the 85 1.8 and what aplication is it best suited for?

In general, the 85 f/1.8 is good fast prime with about 20'-25' of reach. I like it for portraits, theater, dance, etc. It's probably one of the my default lenses when I shoot basketball...

For hockey, I will throw it on if I have a lens restriction or if I have poor light and will tend to shoot action if I'm standing by the boards. With the 85mm, I limit my composition if I'm standing near the corners from half of the ice and a few feet inside of the blueline...

I know that you're a newbie, but you should invest some time into learning about exposure before buying anything else. As for what glass to buy/use, it really depends on the type of photos that you want and the lighting conditions that you have in the rink.

If you want "longer" (bigger isn't the term), your have a few limited choices -- siggy 120-300 f/2.8, canon 300 f/2.8, etc. The light in your area looks pretty decent and you might be able to get away with slower glass....

run_kmc wrote:

For sports, I'd ideally have a zoom with a constant aperture of, say, f/2.8 than a prime, no matter the speed.

I think the lens choice is really determined by two things. 1) How much light is available? 2) What type of compositions are you going after? I've been at rinks where f/2.8 is not enough... Yes, I can shoot at f/2.8 even in those conditions (ISO 3200), but I have to drop my shutter speed to compensate for the exposure. Experience tells me that nearly all images will not be usable to motion blur if I'm trying for clean action shots. For general adult hockey (not pro-level) in a non-professional lit arena, I stop seriously stop taking action shots once the shutter speed drops to about 1/200 or so and will focus on other things instead.

And I would almost kill for the 200 f/1.8. I've been tempted every single time that I see one for sale...

I have shot hockey with five primes -- 135mm, 85mm, 50mm, 24mm T&S, 8mm fish and have been somewhat successful with all of them.

I don't think there is a perfect sports lens that fits every needs. In general, learn all you can about exposure, know the subject inside and out, and do the best that you can with the lenses that you have.

Kopfjager

aktse,thank you very much for your time in responding. The info you have given and the links are a great help. This is what I was hoping for... to LEARN to take great pictures, not be taught to take good pictures. I will definately be spending alot of time practicing since work is slow. I live close to the roller rink and have an in with the ONTERIO REIGN and the DUCKS ( and live about 20 min from both)so I am definatly going to put in a bunch of quality time.

run_kmc thanks you for the info on the lens.

I look forward to learning alot more and being able to post some great pictures.
DON