I conquered ‘Prints to dark’ problem, but............

net1994

For the longest time I had the problem of prints being to dark when getting prints back from my favorite printer. Learned the expensive way my photo work flow was all wrong. Bought a Spyder 3 Pro calibration device, and a 24” HP LP2475w LCD panel. I had my prints done at Adorama and Mpix. Results varied slightly, but one constant issue is that certain prints from each company have a slight to heavy red cast. Or the photos have warmer feel to them. Very odd and even more frustrating. Not every photo is affected, but many are.

Here are a few specs:

HP LP2475w LCD Bri 08 Con 80 (default is 90 Bri 80 Con)
Set to 6500K
Gama 2.2
Luminance 89 cd/m2
Spyder 3 Pro created color profile.
Photoshop CS3 in sRGB

Using both Adorama and Mpix soft proof ICC printer profiles. Could anyone suggest what the problem may be? Some people who bought this LCD panel report having color uniformity issues with many report a strong red color cast from left to right. But I have not noticed this.

Can anyone suggest what could be the problem? Maybe it me! Ha ha. Or, maybe I’ll just break down and buy a mid-high end photo printer for home printing, but would prefer not to.

Sam

I suggest you post or link to example images (down loadable would be a help) that look good on your monitor, but have this red cast when printed.

That way a few different people here with calibrated monitors can take a look at them.

Sam

net1994

Maybe I spoke too soon about prints being to dark?
Very good point Sam, can't believe I didn't think of it.

Check out my gallery of the best examples of my problem:
http://www.paintbypixels.com/gallery/9618066_aEMwB

These two pics are the biggest offender:
The original photo 'UnderLeaves'

I soft prrofed the photo, made adjustments and then coverted to Mpix ICC profile. I then saved the file, but did NOT embed the profile. Here is the result 'UnderLeaves_MPIXMETAL-BelowGamutWarn' :

You can see the dramatic color shift between the two. While I submitted the second photo 'UnderLeaves_MPIXMETAL-BelowGamutWarn,' what Mpix sent me looks like the first photo!! Exactly. While the first photo is the one I did 90% of the work on.

Whats up with that!?!? Something has got to be missing from my work flow in Photoshop? The pic I got looks like the original, even though I soft proofed it and made changes with Mpix's ICC Profiles. Then I saved the file but have been told to NOT embed the profile as it will get stripped out anyway.

Maybe I spoke too soon about beating 'prints to dark?' Here is the original apple photo #1

After soft proofing, adjustments I submitted this one to be printed #2:

What I get back for #2 is much closer to #1, and noticeably darker and flat. Please don't let your screen fool you on this one. Its is darker in print. Please take a look at the originals on my site.

I have turned my LCD's brightness almost to Zero during calibration, what more can I do??

Now that I have given LOTS more detail, can anyone surmise whats going on? Please feel free to download the originals from my site and see what I cannot!

Thanks

Sam

OK,

I think I know what's going on here.

I think you have the work flow out of sequence, and a color space error.

The first step is to view / edit your image using your calibrated monitor profile.

Once you have the image looking the way you want, then view it using the icc profile for the printer and paper combination used to print the image.

Depending on the image, the printer and paper your image can look very close to your view using your monitor profile, or it can look substantially different.

At this point, while viewing your imge with the paper ICC profile, the idea is to make whatever adjustments needed to get your image to look the same as it did when you were finished processing it using your calibrated monitor's ICC profile.

Save the changes with a different file name, but don't convert the color space to the printer profile. Use whatever color space the printer requires. Normally that would be sRGB.

Now if you decide to print this image on different paper and / or use a different printer, start with the original image processed using the monitor's profile. Open it up and soft proof, look at it using the recommended ICC profile, make whatever changes you need to again match the original. Save this using a different file name.

This is not an exact science. There is some trial and error involved. That's why it's best to work with one printer who delivers consistent prints.

I hope this helps.

Sam

net1994

Thanks for replying Sam. Sorry I did not include my work flow in this thread. Here it is:

1, Open Nikon RAW file in sRGB.
2. Make adjustments with a sRGB working space in Photoshop CS3.
3. Save as 16 bit TIFF in sRGB
4. Convert to 8 Bit and save as JPEG
5. Use Adorama or Mpix Paper profiles and softproof in PSP. Liberal use of Gamut warning to get out of range colors in line.
6. Covert to Adorama/Mpix printer profiles (Adorama told me on the phone this needs to be done, and Mpix confirmed this step).
7. Save as 8 Bit JPG with new name. NOT EMBEDDING profile.

Sam, the only difference (I think) from my work flow and what you suggest, is my step 6. Should I not covert the profile to their own printer profiles? Just leave as is after I'm satisfied with soft proofing, then save as sRGB?

Sam

I do most of my own printing so I have the advantage of see the output right away and making any changes or tweaks I want.

While it's up to you I would recommend opening converting the RAW file in and working in Adobe 1998, or pro photo, color space.

Hopefully you are opening / converting the RAW file as 16 bit, then saving the tiff as your master file, not opening and working in 8 bit then converting and saving as a 16 bit file.

Now just to be clear the processing should be done to taste on your master / tiff file and saved.

Then open your master tiff file, soft proof using the desired ICC profile. Again when viewing, soft proofing, your image make any adjustments necessary to get the image to look like your original. Then go ahead and convert this to sRGB save it as an 8 bit jpg.

Send this to the printer and compare these prints with your on screen image. It will not be perfect, but should be very close.

Currently I only use two color spaces. Adobe as my working and at home, printing color space. My printer, can take advantage of the Adobe color space and a 16 bit file, a few labs can print using the Adobe color space, but many can not and need an 8 bit sRGB file. I will convert a file as needed for the out put.

I am not clear on the instructions from MPIX or Adorama. I never convert the file to an ICC profile. I use these for soft proofing and printing only.

Also I can recommend Bay Photo. These guys are very good, knowledgeable, deliver consistent quality, and are helpful. They are a cut or three above MPIX in quality.

Sam