help with canon speedlites

sparky675

Ok I just purchased a 580 to go with my 430. 2 stands and umbrellas, going to try some ebay triggers. but if I felt the need to hook this set up wired with a 40 d, what type of cords would I need,would i need hot shoe adapters for both flashes. I have a wedding shoot Oct 3rd in a nightmare for Photog's church that I need to have extra light. if I don't receive or they don't work I need another option. and I know buy the expensive remotes. well that is not in the budget this month. so If you could tell me what I need to get wired it would be deeply appreciated. Sparky

JohnBiggs

sparky675 wrote:

Ok I just purchased a 580 to go with my 430. 2 stands and umbrellas, going to try some ebay triggers. but if I felt the need to hook this set up wired with a 40 d, what type of cords would I need,would i need hot shoe adapters for both flashes. I have a wedding shoot Oct 3rd in a nightmare for Photog's church that I need to have extra light. if I don't receive or they don't work I need another option. and I know buy the expensive remotes. well that is not in the budget this month. so If you could tell me what I need to get wired it would be deeply appreciated. Sparky

If its the original 580 you will need some kind of shoe adapter... If you are the radioshack type a mod is VERY simple for this flash to build in a sync port. I did it to mine and it looks pro.

I believe the cactus recievers have hotshoe mounts on them, however, I love my cybersyncs. They don't break the bank either.

goodluck

pathfinder

Why buy Canon eTTL enabled flashes if you are going to only use them in manual mode with ebay radio triggers? Why not buy Vivitar 285HVs or Sunpaks, or something, as the Canon OEM flashes ( except the 580exII ) do not have a pc connection socket.

You will need hot shoe to pc style hot shoes for both to trigger them with ebay triggers or standard issue PWs. Flash Zebra or Paramount flash cords both make fine ones.

Or you can use the 580ex on your camera as a master and the 430ex off camera as a slave and use Canon's wireless control. Indoors it works pretty well. You could pick up another 580ex and have two off camera flashes and a master on your camera. Or you could use an ST-E2 controller for off camera eTTL flash

I have a bunch of links for Canon OEM flash system here, with material about the ST-E2 here.

For information on off camera manual flash ( non OEM, non ETTL ) the major source is David Hobby's Strobist

JohnBiggs

pathfinder wrote:

Why buy Canon eTTL enabled flashes if you are going to only use them in manual mode with ebay radio triggers? Why not buy Vivitar 285HVs or Sunpaks, or something, as the Canon OEM flashes ( except the 580exII ) do not have a pc connection socket.

You will need hot shoe to pc style hot shoes for both to trigger them with ebay triggers or standard issue PWs. Flash Zebra or Paramount flash cords both make fine ones.

Or you can use the 580ex on your camera as a master and the 430ex off camera as a slave and use Canon's wireless control. Indoors it works pretty well. You could pick up another 580ex and have two off camera flashes and a master on your camera. Or you could use an ST-E2 controller for off camera eTTL flash

I have a bunch of links for Canon OEM flash system here, with material about the ST-E2 here.

For information on off camera manual flash ( non OEM, non ETTL ) the major source is David Hobby's Strobist

I have three 580s and the plan was to use the built in canon system. Well it took two hot seconds for one of the flashes to not always fire indoors. I don't have lots of time to mess with that at a wedding, so now I am all manual with radio. In the end it is actually easier and more reliable for me than eTTL.

pathfinder

So you could have saved money by purchasing Vivitar 285 HVs for $89 each, instead of 580exIIs at about $420 each from B&H. The difference would pay for a set of Pocket Wizards to trigger them. Or for two 580exII, you could have 4 285HVs and a pair of PWs, or 4 Cyber-Syncs even.


What was the distance that you experienced failures with the Canon wireless system? Large church or what. Indoors in home size rooms the wireless system works pretty well, but at distances > 25 feet, or if the flash is behind you and the master faces forward it can fail to connect I agree.


A wedding shooter can usually choose their flash to subject distance so manual flash works fine for that.

JohnBiggs

pathfinder wrote:

So you could have saved money by purchasing Vivitar 285 HVs for $89 each, instead of 580exIIs at about $420 each from B&H. The difference would pay for a set of Pocket Wizards to trigger them. Or for two 580exII, you could have 4 285HVs and a pair of PWs, or 4 Cyber-Syncs even.


What was the distance that you experienced failures with the Canon wireless system? Large church or what. Indoors in home size rooms the wireless system works pretty well, but at distances > 25 feet, or if the flash is behind you and the master faces forward it can fail to connect I agree.


A wedding shooter can usually choose their flash to subject distance so manual flash works fine for that.

Off Topic-
I know ppl disagree with me. But eTTL (slave asside) has been too inconsistent. I've tried all kinds of methods.

I'm better off getting the flash on manual, set the exposure at 5 feet, and know if I move to three feet to drop the power a stop and if I move to 8 feet to increase the power a stop. That to me is a lot easier than trying to guess what the eTTL system is going to do just because I zoomed in or something.

On Topic-
Yes. My recommendation these days are one 580 and the rest cheap flashes like vivitars. (I like the lumipro better (http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,12311.html))

I also say go with the cybersyncs over the poscket wizards. I used pocket wizards once and they kept loosing their programming or something. The cybersyncs are super simple, have nice range, and come with all kinds of cables.

In a studio situation with something like monolights, you aren't using eTTL, it's all manual, so going this way is no different.

pathfinder

JohnBiggs wrote:

Off Topic-
I know ppl disagree with me. But eTTL (slave asside) has been too inconsistent. I've tried all kinds of methods. [/url]

I know that there are various opinion about the exposure accuracy with eTTL, but I wonder if they are shooting in Manual Mode with the flash in eTTL , or Av or ( horrors )!!

I'm better off getting the flash on manual, set the exposure at 5 feet, and know if I move to three feet to drop the power a stop and if I move to 8 feet to increase the power a stop. That to me is a lot easier than trying to guess what the eTTL system is going to do just because I zoomed in or something.

I am always surprised that more folks don't understand 2.8 feet, 4 feet, 5.6 feet, 8 feet, 11 feet are each one stop of light from a manual flash too!

On Topic-
Yes. My recommendation these days are one 580 and the rest cheap flashes like vivitars. (I like the lumipro better

I already own three 285HVs and a 283, plus several Canon EOS flashes too, so I have not tried the Lumipro. Is it worth the extra cost over the 285HV? Is it built more robust?

I also say go with the cybersyncs over the poscket wizards. I used pocket wizards once and they kept loosing their programming or something. The cybersyncs are super simple, have nice range, and come with all kinds of cables.

I am not sure what programming you are talking about, unless you mean the newer MiniTT or the FLexTT versions. The older PWs were channel 1,2,3,4 and that was it. Mine never seem to fail me,but then I don't live with them from dawn to dusk shooting weddings either.

In a studio situation with something like monolights, you aren't using eTTL, it's all manual, so going this way is no different.

I agree. I have always said if you can tell the subject where to sit or stand, and they will do it, then manual flash is duck soup!

JohnBiggs

pathfinder wrote:

I know that there are various opinion about the exposure accuracy with eTTL, but I wonder if they are shooting in Manual Mode with the flash in eTTL , or Av or ( horrors )!!

I'm all manual. Full manual with eTTL bites me every time. I just read Neil's whole site, felt refreshed and decided to try his techniques this past weekend at a wedding. I was doing ok with it for the Getting ready shots, but as soon as I went out side I could not get it to do anything consistent.

pathfinder wrote:

I am always surprised that more folks don't understand 2.8 feet, 4 feet, 5.6 feet, 8 feet, 11 feet are each one stop of light from a manual flash too!

Yep, it's easy.

pathfinder wrote:

I already own three 285HVs and a 283, plus several Canon EOS flashes too, so I have not tried the Lumipro. Is it worth the extra cost over the 285HV? Is it built more robust?

Lumipro has the optical sync and the 1/8th power which I believe 285is missing. Strobist has a quick review of the lumi.

pathfinder wrote:

I am not sure what programming you are talking about, unless you mean the newer MiniTT or the FLexTT versions. The older PWs were channel 1,2,3,4 and that was it. Mine never seem to fail me,but then I don't live with them from dawn to dusk shooting weddings either.

I'm not a pocketwizard expert but these had LCD screens on the back. The owner had to keep coming back to set it again cause it would stop firing.

pathfinder wrote:

I agree. I have always said if you can tell the subject where to sit or stand, and they will do it, then manual flash is duck soup!

As long as you can control your distance it's also easy. I use it at receptions.

divamum

pathfinder wrote:

JohnBiggs wrote:

I am always surprised that more folks don't understand 2.8 feet, 4 feet, 5.6 feet, 8 feet, 11 feet are each one stop of light from a manual flash too!

Ok, in the 9 months or so I've been trying to learn about flash, all the reading I've done and questions I've asked... NOBODY has ever made that simple statement before. You're brilliant - talk about a lightbulb moment!!!

JohnBiggs

divamum wrote:

Ok, in the 9 months or so I've been trying to learn about flash, all the reading I've done and questions I've asked... NOBODY has ever made that simple statement before. You're brilliant - talk about a lightbulb moment!!!

Here is something easier... (instead of pulling out a tape measure.) Move the light a third of the way closer for 1 stop. (technically 28.6%, but we're talking about quickly eyeballing something anyways.)

No matter how far or close the light is, if you move it 1/3 of the way closer you will increase 1 stop.

Simple. Just remember that you can't move something in 2/3 and expect 2 stops because you have to always factor from the last position. 1/2 way is exactly two stops.