Implied Motion - Waterfall

brvheart

Hi guys -

I asked in an earlier thread about showing applied motion in the daylight. This is my first outing trying this again - so here are two shots from the outing. One of the things that I struggled with was the blow out of the sunlight on the rocks and the middle of the fall - is there anyway to help that either with the first shot or in PP?

GOLDENORFE

good compositions, would have been better using an ND filter and slower shutterspeed.[ thats my personal choice ]
bracketed 3 frames at + - 1 or 2 , then merged HDR style using layers in photoshop, use layer mask over the blown out areas.
phil

craig_d

I don't recall offhand if the XTi has Highlight Tone Priority, but if so, it might help with the highlights blowing out.

Otherwise, as noted above, an ND might help, or HDR techniques, if simply stopping down and lowering the ISO level isn't enough to get you to the shutter time you want without overexposure or loss of shadow detail.

Seemingly blown highlights can sometimes be recovered by manipulating curves in post-production, but not always. It depends on whether the highlights are really blown, or just so close to it that your eyes can't tell the difference.

brvheart

thanks for the feedback - would it work if I used three images lowering the exposure on each - as in take what I have, adjust the exposure save as a new picture then merge them?

GOLDENORFE

brvheart wrote:

thanks for the feedback - would it work if I used three images lowering the exposure on each - as in take what I have, adjust the exposure save as a new picture then merge them?

yes, if you shot in RAW would be quite easy to reduce highlights in 1 version to merge with another
phil

Sexy6Chick

I see what you mean about the blowout on the rocks, but you succeeded in capturing some pretty good images despite that. Nicely done "Nick":D I like the first one more of the two.

Wiren

Bry
Can I ask what your settings were on this shot? What aperture did you use, shutter speed, ISO, etc. I assume you used manual settings and not an auto feature?

Were you stuck to this time of day....? I find the best time to do falls is early in the morning, from right before daybreak to a couple hours beyond (or late in the afternoon, early evening) I usually get up on a sunday at 3-4 am and drive to my locale to get my shot without the sun there to blow it out. I also use an ND grad when needed.

Also, were you stuck to this angle of shot? Sometimes if you move around for different angles, you can limit your blowout and also get a different angle/perspective of your subject.

take care,

Lee

brvheart

GOLDENORFE wrote:

yes, if you shot in RAW would be quite easy to reduce highlights in 1 version to merge with another
phil

I did shoot in raw - I dont know how I would do what you are saying though - still new to the whole RAW/PP world.

brvheart

Sexy6Chick wrote:

I see what you mean about the blowout on the rocks, but you succeeded in capturing some pretty good images despite that. Nicely done "Nick":D I like the first one more of the two.

Thanks Sexy

Nick

brvheart

Wiren wrote:

Can I ask what your settings were on this shot? What aperture did you use, shutter speed, ISO, etc. I assume you used manual settings and not an auto feature?

Were you stuck to this time of day....? I find the best time to do falls is early in the morning, from right before daybreak to a couple hours beyond (or late in the afternoon, early evening) I usually get up on a sunday at 3-4 am and drive to my locale to get my shot without the sun there to blow it out. I also use an ND grad when needed.

Also, were you stuck to this angle of shot? Sometimes if you move around for different angles, you can limit your blowout and also get a different angle/perspective of your subject.

take care,

Lee

I was not stuck at that time day - I was just went for a walk at lunch and had my camera with me so I shot it I dont have a ND filter - are they expensive?

The Angle was kinda set as there is only so many spots to up at and get the shot in - I was keep that in mine though

as for the settings on the shots -

#1
F22
TV - .8s
83mm
ISO100
#2
F29
TV - 2s
105MM
ISO100

brvheart

craig_d wrote:

I don't recall offhand if the XTi has Highlight Tone Priority, but if so, it might help with the highlights blowing out.

Otherwise, as noted above, an ND might help, or HDR techniques, if simply stopping down and lowering the ISO level isn't enough to get you to the shutter time you want without overexposure or loss of shadow detail.

Seemingly blown highlights can sometimes be recovered by manipulating curves in post-production, but not always. It depends on whether the highlights are really blown, or just so close to it that your eyes can't tell the difference.

I have tried HDR exposure but can not get the AEB feature figured out - maybe I am over complicating it, but when go in and choose the -1, 0 +1 or what have you, it does not seem to stick and take the three exposures - anyone with an XTI that can give a walk through would be awesome

Wiren

brvheart wrote:

I was not stuck at that time day - I was just went for a walk at lunch and had my camera with me so I shot it I dont have a ND filter - are they expensive?

The Angle was kinda set as there is only so many spots to up at and get the shot in - I was keep that in mine though

as for the settings on the shots -

#1
F22
TV - .8s
83mm
ISO100
#2
F29
TV - 2s
105MM
ISO100

ND grads aren't too awfully expensive, I picked one up the other year for around....... $40 hard to remember. I bought a Cokin 2 stop ND grad, it is square and has a screw mount to fit into the lens then you slip the square grad into the holder and voila, you have up to a 2 stop control to help with blown highlights, helps if you want to drag the shutter also.

Sorry, can't help with your XTi, I shoot Olympus and have no clue to your camera's settings and such. Seems like you shot at a very bright point in the day when you went for that walk, earlier in the day and clouds help a lot when shooting water like that. A lot of the falls in my area are in the Gorge (Columbia River Gorge, Oregon) and there are a lot of trees to help shade my water so I don't have to deal with what you dealt with on that day.

This looks like an intersting spot and a nice little falls are, would love to see it if you shot it in the early AM on a cloudy day, if you do so, be sure to post it.

Cheers

Lee

brvheart

Thanks for the info Lee! I will most assuredly catch those falls under the right conditions. Now that I am focusing and beginning my journey as a photographer instead of just taking a picture I have picked up Petersons Understanding Exposure and have moved from auto to Manual mode I love to try to capture the moment I. A creative way rather than just point and shoot. Today would be perfect as it is overcast with no sun.

craig_d

That Peterson book isn't bad and will give you some good ideas, but there are a number of little technical gotchas in it to watch out for. For example, he tells you that stopping down increases sharpness, but he never mentions that stopping down too much will decrease sharpness due to diffraction. In fact, I don't recall the word "diffraction" even occurring in the book. The impression I have of Peterson from reading two of his books (the other was "Learning to See Creatively", which I actually think is the better of the two) is that he's a highly capable photographer, but he's good because he has a great eye and he's learned to use his tools effectively in practice, rather than because he has a strong understanding of the physical principles or technologies that underly photography.

brvheart

craig_d wrote:

That Peterson book isn't bad and will give you some good ideas, but there are a number of little technical gotchas in it to watch out for. For example, he tells you that stopping down increases sharpness, but he never mentions that stopping down too much will decrease sharpness due to diffraction. In fact, I don't recall the word "diffraction" even occurring in the book. The impression I have of Peterson from reading two of his books (the other was "Learning to See Creatively", which I actually think is the better of the two) is that he's a highly capable photographer, but he's good because he has a great eye and he's learned to use his tools effectively in practice, rather than because he has a strong understanding of the physical principles or technologies that underly photography.

just took the wind out of the sales :-/ lol

IF not that book - is there one that you would suggest? Good point on the Sharpness.

craig_d

Like I said, it's not a bad book -- you just have to be aware that he glosses over some issues.

I don't have any other books on exposure to recommend offhand. There's a lot of good stuff online, though. Here, for example:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials.htm

These tend to be rather technically-oriented, and as such make a nice complement to books like Peterson's.

Wiren

I know of a good read......
and it ain't in the book store. I am a self taught photographer, 2 years and a little more under my belt only, but I think i'm doing better and better all the time (not to toot any horns there, I still suck compared to a lot of folks).

I have learned everything (or near enough) through photo forums. By watching what gets posted, reading comments about those I like, and if one blows me away and has not many comments, I will ask my own. Another part is by posting to numerous forums and listening well to the critique offered and working to improve it the next time. Lots of awesome photogs on numerous forums out there and most everybody (95%) are more than willing to outline their shots for you so you can learn. A lot of it is from trial and error, getting somewhere early enough to try numerous exposures of the same shot, shifting around the subject (if possible) to take numerous angles of the same subject. When you get home, you can see what worked or not - throwing yourself in with the wolves is usually the fastest way to learn I say.

I have only picked up a couple of books, and although I love to read, I learn better by doing and get bored with the books I buy - the only book I ever read and re-read is my owners manual.

good luck and take care, holler if you want to see examples (although I am not sure I am the best to learn from) or any ideas/critique about what you are doing, I am willing to help.

Oh, btw, here is my most recent post of shots I took this AM (09/20/09) http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=1217036#post1217036

Lee

brvheart

Also I went back today - it was overcast and wet from raining - I will post these up later - they are uploading right now.

I did figure out the AEB feature so I played with that also - I will try to combine the 3 jpegs in CS3 for a HDR just for learning.