Canon 50D-580EXII question

TGAllen

Does the High Speed Sync work (in AV Mode) with the Flash tilted up in a Bounce Configuration?

I used my 50D-580EXII yesterday in this configuration and noticed that the shutter speed stayed at 1/250 regardless of my aperture value. With the flash turned off, the meter reading was 1/1000 at f2.8, but as soon as I turned the flash on, it would stay at 1/250 and cause overexposure. I'm probably just having a brain fart...:dunno

ziggy53

I use the Sigma EF 500 Super and EF 530 Super flashes, but I can confirm that in "Manual" mode on the camera, the camera/flash may be set to FP/HSS mode and shot with shutter speeds faster than "sync" on both the Canon 40D and 5D MKII and with the flash head set to other than direct.

kdog

Your HSS wasn't enabled from your description as that's exactly what happens when it's off. There's an indicator displayed on both the flash LCD as well as in the camera viewfinder when in HSS mode. It's the same symbol as on the HSS button -- a little lightning bolt and an 'H'. When you press the button, that symbol will be illuminated and you will be able to select a higher shutter speed.

Regards,
-joel

Nikolai

kdog wrote:

Your HSS wasn't enabled from your description as that's exactly what happens when it's off. There's an indicator displayed on both the flash LCD as well as in the camera viewfinder when in HSS mode. It's the same symbol as on the HSS button -- a little lightning bolt and an 'H'. When you press the button, that symbol will be illuminated and you will be able to select a higher shutter speed.

Regards,
-joel

+1

TGAllen

Nikolai wrote:

+1

Thanks for the responses, but that was the first thing I checked and the HSS was selected. Which is why I thought maybe it only works with the flash in the direct forward position. I checked the manual and it does not say that HSS does not work in the bounce position. I was able to make it work in Manual and in TV modes, and also in AV mode with it in direct.

Nikolai

TGAllen wrote:

Thanks for the responses, but that was the first thing I checked and the HSS was selected. Which is why I thought maybe it only works with the flash in the direct forward position. I checked the manual and it does not say that HSS does not work in the bounce position. I was able to make it work in Manual and in TV modes, and also in AV mode with it in direct.

I just tried. I see the effect you're describing. M/Tv allows for HSS, Av mode switches to Max Sync Speed *regardless* of the head position (direct/raised/turned/etc). Honestly, I don't remember if it was the case before, I don't use speedlight much, especially under the circumstances where HSS is really needed (like high noon outdoors).

ziggy53

Since AV mode cannot guarantee any particular shutter speed, it would not make too much sense allowing HSS/FP mode for the flash while the camera is in AV mode, since HSS/FP mode "requires" a shutter speed higher than flash sync.

kdog

Nikolai wrote:

I just tried. I see the effect you're describing. M/Tv allows for HSS, Av mode switches to Max Sync Speed *regardless* of the head position (direct/raised/turned/etc).

ziggy53 wrote:

Since AV mode cannot guarantee any particular shutter speed, it would not make too much sense allowing HSS/FP mode for the flash while the camera is in AV mode, since HSS/FP mode "requires" a shutter speed higher than flash sync.

You guys are confusing me. I just tried HSS in AV mode on both my Canon 40D and 5DMII, and it works fine, indoors or out, and regardless of flash head position.

Also, here is a quote from the Canon 580EXII manual, page 17, High Speed Sync.

"With high-speed sync (FP flash), the flash can synchronize with all shuttter speeds. This is a convenience when you want to use aperture priority for fill-flash shots."

Now I don't have the 50D. Does it not work that way?

Nikolai

kdog wrote:

You guys are confusing me. I just tried HSS in AV mode on both my Canon 40D and 5DMII, and it works fine, indoors or out, and regardless of flash head position.

Also, here is a quote from the Canon 580EXII manual, page 17, High Speed Sync.

"With high-speed sync (FP flash), the flash can synchronize with all shuttter speeds. This is a convenience when you want to use aperture priority for fill-flash shots."

Now I don't have the 50D. Does it not work that way?

Joel,
get your 5D2, attach 580EXII, turn the latter on, set HSS mode, put 5D2 into Av mode, go outdoors and see if you can get shutter speed above 1/200. I couldn't...

rwells

I don't own a 50D, so not sure about that specifically on that model. Doesn't make sense though about the bounce head issue. My 30D, 5D & 5DMkII will allow HSS in AV mode regardless of the head position.

And Nik, sounds like you have a C.Fn set to "force 1/250" in AV mode on 50D & the same on the 5DMkII (1/200). I just went outside with 5D2 in AV mode. ISO 100 ~ f/4 ~ 1/1000 with HSS enabled on the flash and head turned up to 45 degree position. Everything worked just as it should.

5DMkII
C.Fn I: Exposure

0 - Auto
1 - 1/200 - 1/60sec Auto
2 - 1/200 (force)

Nikolai

rwells wrote:

I don't own a 50D, so not sure about that specifically on that model. Doesn't make sense though about the bounce head issue. My 30D, 5D & 5DMkII will allow HSS in AV mode regardless of the head position.

And Nik, sounds like you have a C.Fn set to "force 1/250" in AV mode.

Possible, let me check...
Duh :bash
It was the camera flash setting.
It has three options:
0. Auto
1. 1/200..1/60, auto
2. 1/200 fixed
Mine was on 1. After I switched it to 0 (auto), the whole thing started to work on Av, too.

This round goes to Randy!

kdog

rwells wrote:

And Nik, sounds like you have a C.Fn set to "force 1/250" in AV mode on 50D & the same on the 5DMkII (1/200).

Good catch, Randy.

rwells

kdog wrote:

Good catch, Randy.

That solves Nik's issue, but not the OP's.

If the flash works fine in HSS when the head is directly forward, but not when the head is in a bounce position, I certainly think there is an issue with the flash itself. I know of no settings that would restrict such. (Clean all the contacts on the hotshoe and on bottom of the flash) Retry...

But, with that said: When you move the head from the straight on position, you go from E-TTLII to E-TTL. So there are some differences happening between the flash and the camera at this point. (you loose the lens reported distance) I'd say it's a flash issue, but you can't rule out the body completely yet.

Easy to diagnose: Try another flash on your 50D. If it works fine ~ it's the flash. If it still does the same, try your flash on another body.

Let us know the outcome here, so if anyone else has this issue the answer will be here, search-able.

ziggy53

Nikolai wrote:

... This round goes to Randy!

kdog wrote:

Good catch, Randy.

WTG Randy. Who da man? Randy's da man.

Thnaks to Nik for spelling it out.

rwells

ziggy53 wrote:

WTG Randy. Who da man? Randy's da man.

Thnaks to Nik for spelling it out.

:lol4

TGAllen

Thanks a bunch! I don't have access to the camera at the moment, but I would guess that would solve my problem. I'm still new to the canon system and I had my Sony and my Canon around my neck at the same time yesterday. After thinking about it, I was shooting my Sony straight on (with the Mini Softbox) in AV/HSS and the Canon was just in bounce mode with the Lumiquest Reflector. It was bright sun and just needed a little fill flash.

Thanks again, you guys are a great resource!

TGAllen

rwells wrote:

I don't own a 50D, so not sure about that specifically on that model. Doesn't make sense though about the bounce head issue. My 30D, 5D & 5DMkII will allow HSS in AV mode regardless of the head position.

And Nik, sounds like you have a C.Fn set to "force 1/250" in AV mode on 50D & the same on the 5DMkII (1/200). I just went outside with 5D2 in AV mode. ISO 100 ~ f/4 ~ 1/1000 with HSS enabled on the flash and head turned up to 45 degree position. Everything worked just as it should.

5DMkII
C.Fn I: Exposure

0 - Auto
1 - 1/200 - 1/60sec Auto
2 - 1/200 (force)

That was it! Thanks again!