lighting advice/help

chrismoore

Hi, on the advice of another thread I bought a 60" photek softlighter to do some portraits for fun. I have seamless white paper as the background. So I gave it all a try for the first time. Here is an example:





I used a 580EXII in the softlighter which was positioned 30 degrees camera left, a Vivitar slave on the ground, aimed about 45 degrees up at the paper on 1/2 power (about a stop brighter than the main), and positioned about 4-6 inches away from the paper. Camera was 1/200, f/5.0 ISO 100 which I arrived by trial and error as I can't find the lumisphere for my meter and waiting for a replacement.

I'd rather not get any additional lighting equipment at this point, as I will mainly just use this for my daughter and maybe friends, I'd like to try and make the most of what I have so far.

Does anyone have advice/critique on the lighting/exposure? the set up? On some monitors you can see a more distinct area bottom right that the background flash did not fully expose, and I wonder if that is a function of it's power, the camera settings, or its actual position?

Thanks so much

cwoodard

I am in pretty much the same position as you and have been struggling with setting it up in the best way. I think you have done a wonderful job! I am still getting too much shadow on one side of my subject's face. Think I need to fiddle with the position of the soft box some more.

jmphotocraft

I would say in 1 that the child's face is underexposed. The light is nearly flat and the eyes are dull. 2 is better, the light gives the face more dimension and the eyes are lit nicely. However the blown out background hurts my eyes, maybe I just don't like this style. But it is also causing chromatic aberration.

kdog

Sweet! Adorable kid. I'm new to this too, so take this with a grain of salt. But I'd be tempted to try a reflector or piece of foam board on camera right to get a bit more fill on her face. Actually, maybe the background is too bright as well now that I think about it?

Regards,
-joel

chrismoore

Thanks for the help, I'm totally new at this. I agree the background does appear a bit bright. The problem was that one setting lower on the slave made it gray. I also wonder if her being so close to the floor (the flash was on the floor) caused the segment behind her head to be the brightest.

Do you generally put the background flash right up to the backdrop and aim up, or set it a few feet away? I'm guessing as long as the light that hits it is the same, it really doesn't matter.

Village Idiot

Unless you move the main light right, you need more equipment. Either a reflector or another flash with an umbrella on a stand. Something to use as a fill anyways.

Swartzy

How far away was child from bg? Problem here is there is too much spill from the bg on to the back of child's head. Typically for a high key shot (just a general setting) is having the bg exposed 2 stops over subject exposure. This will insure white bg blow out....but...as with everything you can get away with less if you pay close attention to your histogram/LCD.

Most of my high key shots involve a minimum of 4 lights...2 for the bg...using flags/bookends to minimize spill. The other two are for the subject's exposure. I at times even the ratios for the key and fill so there aren't shadows per se...all depends on the look I'm after.

There are many many tutorials on line and examples of set ups. You can use umbrellas to bounce the light to bg or aim your lights at bg and set up bookends. I think Scott posted a pic of his set up a while ago....."Hey Scott"...where is that post?

The child's exposure here in these 2 shots are underexposed. Get those catchlight in the eyes....make them sparkle!

Here's an example:

chrismoore

Swartzy wrote:

How far away was child from bg? Problem here is there is too much spill from the bg on to the back of child's head. Typically for a high key shot (just a general setting) is having the bg exposed 2 stops over subject exposure. This will insure white bg blow out....but...as with everything you can get away with less if you pay close attention to your histogram/LCD.

Most of my high key shots involve a minimum of 4 lights...2 for the bg...using flags/bookends to minimize spill. The other two are for the subject's exposure. I at times even the ratios for the key and fill so there aren't shadows per se...all depends on the look I'm after.

There are many many tutorials on line and examples of set ups. You can use umbrellas to bounce the light to bg or aim your lights at bg and set up bookends. I think Scott posted a pic of his set up a while ago....."Hey Scott"...where is that post?

How far was the child from the backdrop in this example?

In my example, do you think that adding a second flash for background, and positioning a silver reflector camera right for fill would be appropriate. I will probably get more equipment in the future, like another umbrella and hair light, but not now. I can get another Vivitar for the background pretty cheap and I have a reflector set. Thanks.

Swartzy

chrismoore wrote:

How far was the child from the backdrop in this example?

In my example, do you think that adding a second flash for background, and positioning a silver reflector camera right for fill would be appropriate. I will probably get more equipment in the future, like another umbrella and hair light, but not now. I can get another Vivitar for the background pretty cheap and I have a reflector set. Thanks.

This example: The baby was about 10 feet away providing enough room for the brolly set up and eliminate spill. A reflector would be appropriate. The key is to expose your subject properly and don't forget to take a custom white balance, setting your camera accordiingly....this will help you "nail" the look. One more flash for the bg will help. Remember, collectively, the bg should be at least 1 1/2 stops over your subject.....some of which can be corrected in post with some simple layer masking techniques using levels.

kidzmom

Your baby girl is stunningly adorable I love that chair and sweet dress! You are well on your way to mastering your new lighting set-up (I'm jealous). I think the 2nd shot looks like it is lit better than the first (there seem to be some dark areas in 1st shot on her face). I took a peek at your website. You have some amazing shots there! My jaw dropped to see that you are a doctor and not a full time photographer. Great work! Can't wait to see more shots with your new lighting set-up. I dream of getting some studio lights myself, and I'll be back with many a question for you then! Have fun

rwells

I think the lighting has been covered, but remember: Your eyes are first drawn to contrast in an image. For a high-key image you should have light colored clothing on your subject. This will allow the face/skin to be the darkest thing in the image, therefore will involuntarily draw your eye there first.

If you'll notice on your shots here, the first thing your eye is drawn to is the dark shirt, then you try and look at the face, but the shirt (the most contrasting thing in the image) keeps pulling your eyes away from the face.

Now, look at the example shot Swartzy posted. The face, and specifically the eyes are the darkest part of the image and is what pulls your eyes there immediately.

Hope that helps...

AlbertZeroK

Swartzy wrote:

Here's an example:

How did you get the reflection on the floor? What material did you use? Glass?

VayCayMom

rwells wrote:

I think the lighting has been covered, but remember: Your eyes are first drawn to contrast in an image. For a high-key image you should have light colored clothing on your subject. This will allow the face/skin to be the darkest thing in the image, therefore will involuntarily draw your eye there first.

If you'll notice on your shots here, the first thing your eye is drawn to is the dark shirt, then you try and look at the face, but the shirt (the most contrasting thing in the image) keeps pulling your eyes away from the face.

Now, look at the example shot Swartzy posted. The face, and specifically the eyes are the darkest part of the image and is what pulls your eyes there immediately.

Hope that helps...

That is some great advice, I am taking notes now!

chrismoore

rwells wrote:

I think the lighting has been covered, but remember: Your eyes are first drawn to contrast in an image. For a high-key image you should have light colored clothing on your subject. This will allow the face/skin to be the darkest thing in the image, therefore will involuntarily draw your eye there first.

If you'll notice on your shots here, the first thing your eye is drawn to is the dark shirt, then you try and look at the face, but the shirt (the most contrasting thing in the image) keeps pulling your eyes away from the face.

Now, look at the example shot Swartzy posted. The face, and specifically the eyes are the darkest part of the image and is what pulls your eyes there immediately.

Hope that helps...

Really helpful, I didn't even think about the impact of the outfit, but now that you point it out...
Thanks so much!

chrismoore

kidzmom wrote:

Your baby girl is stunningly adorable I love that chair and sweet dress! You are well on your way to mastering your new lighting set-up (I'm jealous). I think the 2nd shot looks like it is lit better than the first (there seem to be some dark areas in 1st shot on her face). I took a peek at your website. You have some amazing shots there! My jaw dropped to see that you are a doctor and not a full time photographer. Great work! Can't wait to see more shots with your new lighting set-up. I dream of getting some studio lights myself, and I'll be back with many a question for you then! Have fun

Thank you very much. We think she is adorable, too
Up until now I have been hesitant to even try studio/portrait type shots, it is a different world learning about lighting, etc. The forums here on Dgbrin have been invaluable in understanding set up, exposure, and the advice is outstanding. It is actually quite fun.

Swartzy

AlbertZeroK wrote:

How did you get the reflection on the floor? What material did you use? Glass?

The reflective surface is "Masonite" available at your local building center. This is a 4x8' sheet....white reflective on one side. I'll prolly get a couple more. Many times this is used on a table/bench we have at the studio so I don't have to lay on the floor. It works great for full body shots as well.

Another thought for high key.....colors work great as well to complement the scene. A way to think when shooting high key is "What do I want the viewer to see first?"..."Where is the focal point?" Oftentimes it's the eyes...but sometimes it's the "whole" as the image is portraying a particular statement. Most people when learning to shoot begin with headshots and get stuck in that rut. Try doing full body shots using props for "rounding out" your ability and learning curve. Once you have your lighting dialed in you can shoot lots of frames for different looks!

Another example just for illustration (not wanting to take over the thread...just wanting to help).

chrismoore

Swartzy wrote:

The reflective surface is "Masonite" available at your local building center. This is a 4x8' sheet....white reflective on one side. I'll prolly get a couple more. Many times this is used on a table/bench we have at the studio so I don't have to lay on the floor. It works great for full body shots as well.

Another thought for high key.....colors work great as well to complement the scene. A way to think when shooting high key is "What do I want the viewer to see first?"..."Where is the focal point?" Oftentimes it's the eyes...but sometimes it's the "whole" as the image is portraying a particular statement. Most people when learning to shoot begin with headshots and get stuck in that rut. Try doing full body shots using props for "rounding out" your ability and learning curve. Once you have your lighting dialed in you can shoot lots of frames for different looks!

Another example just for illustration (not wanting to take over the thread...just wanting to help).

Not at all... I appreciate the help. What is the consistency of the "masonite"? I found a white semi reflective surface at home depot, that was essentially hard cardboard and the times I tried shooting full body shots with it in combination with the seamless paper there was an obvious seam where the two met and was difficult to photoshop out (and look good).

kdog

chrismoore wrote:

Not at all... I appreciate the help. What is the consistency of the "masonite"? I found a white semi reflective surface at home depot, that was essentially hard cardboard and the times I tried shooting full body shots with it in combination with the seamless paper there was an obvious seam where the two met and was difficult to photoshop out (and look good).

Sounds like what you got was melamine. I'm half guessing that's what Swartzy got too. Question, while we're waiting for Swartzy to get back to us. If you blow out the background and the floor, then you're dealing with pure white pixels and shouldn't be too hard to clone out the seam, right?

My other question question concerns your Vivitar. How do you trigger it?

Thanks,
-joel

chrismoore

kdog wrote:

Sounds like what you got was melamine. I'm half guessing that's what Swartzy got too. Question, while we're waiting for Swartzy to get back to us. If you blow out the background and the floor, then you're dealing with pure white pixels and shouldn't be too hard to clone out the seam, right?

My other question question concerns your Vivitar. How do you trigger it?

Thanks,
-joel

You're right, its definitely doable, it just gets a little dicey cloning around the subject, and also if it is not totally blown there may be some difficulty. I didn't know if there always is a seam and as a rule, studio photogs photoshop it out, or if there is a combination of materials that can allow for a seamless transition while still using the reflective surface.

I used a remote trigger for the 580 in the softlighter and the vivitar for the background was triggered as a slave.

blaser321

I used two 4x8 tile boards from Home Depot it's about 13$ and just roll the paper under
the back board so the bottom of the paper has at least a 1foot radius and blow it out it should be OK
5 x AB800 lights 4 60x30 box 1 10 x 30 strip

kdog

Now that's a lighting system. :wow

chrismoore

kdog wrote:

Now that's a lighting system. :wow

:eat