Needing serious advice

squiddy

So I've only done a couple weddings for friends, nothing majorly serious or anything requiring a contract.

My Dj friend has been throwing out my name as a referral and just got a bite this morning from a girl interested in booking me for engagement and wedding photos.... problem is she's thinking wedding will be like 2yrs away.

I put pricing together that outlines if booking a wedding [whole day event] that engagement session will be included.

I am wondering if i should draw up a contract with her for enegement session separate [separate fee] and wedding later since it's so far off ORRRRR Get a contract set in stone now with a retainer so they can have the engagement session for "free".

[ps this may belong with "mind your own business" - plz move if necessary ]

Moogle Pepper

Any type of business or work you do needs to have sort of legal document. So yes, write up a contract for the wedding, that includes the engagement session too if you are including it with what you are offering them. Even if you do like one wedding per year, you should still have a contract.

Next get the retainer fee and mark down the date and keep in touch with the bride and groom.

cdonovan

squiddy wrote:

So I've only done a couple weddings for friends, nothing majorly serious or anything requiring a contract.

My Dj friend has been throwing out my name as a referral and just got a bite this morning from a girl interested in booking me for engagement and wedding photos.... problem is she's thinking wedding will be like 2yrs away.

I put pricing together that outlines if booking a wedding [whole day event] that engagement session will be included.

I am wondering if i should draw up a contract with her for enegement session separate [separate fee] and wedding later since it's so far off ORRRRR Get a contract set in stone now with a retainer so they can have the engagement session for "free".

[ps this may belong with "mind your own business" - plz move if necessary ]

2 years away is hard, especially for someone just starting into wedding photography... are you still going to be doing photography in 2 years, are you going to keep up with your equipment needs etc etc. It's cool to get a bite, but be sure to ask yourself if it's a viable thing for you to continue! Not saying anything personally. I know that I question myself sometimes, booking a year in advance! lol

Get a contract, get it signed, and get your retainer. Then the leg work is done, are you including engagement photos in your package, I would be sure to have contract signed and retainer before the engagement photos take place!

heatherfeather

One more thing to think about: When scheduling that far in advance there is a good chance your skills and therefore prices will increase by the time the actual event occurs. If you make a contract with today's prices you are likely to be working for far less than you are used to when the day actually rolls around. Do I sound like I am speaking from experience? Could be for a reason.

But cool to get the bite! Congrats!

squiddy

Good points! Yeah... geez i hope to be better in 2 years. lol.

I plan to take my business full force eventually, so i do plan to be doing this in 2 years. My biggest issue was... will i still live here in 2 years?! Which i will be unfortunately.

I called her tonight and let her know that we should definitely meet and see what she's looking for. She has seen the work I've done and says she loves it.

Now i have to whip up a contract

this stuff is hard work! lol

Scott_Quier

Heather has a very good point. I would do some serious thinking about what your plans are. What kind of packages, pricing, etc do you plan to offer in 2 years time. Price this job with that in mind. Write it up that way so the bride understands that you value your work. Write up and price out everything you will be offering the bride. The, if you wish, also include on the invoice/contract any discounts you plan to offer. This will set a precident with your client that nothing comes free - it all has a price associated with it and that you value your time and talent.

Get that retainer. Oh, and include terms in the contract related to cancellation. How much of that, if any, retainer will be refunded should the bride decide to cancel?

Once you've done all the above (and other stuff as well), you've got the hard part done. You've, essentially, built your short-term business plan. How cool is that?

Now all you have to do is vett the client and determine if you WANT to shoot for her. I know it's hard to turn away business, but you gotta be comfortable with the client. Pay attention to your intuition. It's when you don't that you begin to get into trouble - hmmmm does that sound like it comes from experience? Might be a reason.

bmoreshooter

There are several reasons for booking so far in advance. One is to lock in current priceing. Yes, you may be better at what you do in two years, or at least more experienced but that has nothing to do with your current bookings. Based on your theory, in ten years you should be incredible, but it doesn't work that way. What your doing now may be the limits of your abilities. If you only do a couple of weddings in the next two years it may not change things much. It's not quite fair to book prices based on what you may be able to provide two years from now. Make sure that your prices are fair now to both of you and get it in writing. In two years if you can provide more, then you can offer more services at additional prices but be prepared to give her what you promise now. We all wish that we could see into the future but that's for sci-fi tv. She's willing to take a chance on you and that deserves some concideration. Another option is to ask her to check with you in a year, but you will probably lose the job.

divamum

I don't know if this is possibility in Photographyland, but as a singer, there are two types of bookings:

1. Firm contracts, signed in blood on both sides (ok, j/k about the blood, but binding paper contracts with set fees, dates and full details)

2. A "hold" on the dates - this is a less formal agreement and both sides have some flexibility to change as needed; it also means that fees aren't set and final details are not nailed down. A "hold" is usually requested when the hiring body hasn't made up their mades regarding repertoire yet (or when the dates are SO far ahead that things may change in the interim). These requests are often made by email rather than paper contract (but email now counts as "in writing" and binding, so there is some recourse).

In your situation, where you're still ramping up your business, might a "hold" arrangement be a viable option? Perhaps with reservation fee - non-refundable if she changes her mind, but you will refund if your circumstances change. You could include language which specifies by when the "hold" will turn to a binding, formal contract.

Again, since I'm not a wedding 'tog I may be out of line here (so take with a LARGE grain of salt), but just sharing what happens in another artistic discipline.......

Scott_Quier

divamum wrote:

I don't know if this is possibility in Photographyland, but as a singer, there are two types of bookings:

1. Firm contracts, signed in blood on both sides (ok, j/k about the blood, but binding paper contracts with set fees, dates and full details)

2. A "hold" on the dates - this is a less formal agreement and both sides have some flexibility to change as needed; it also means that fees aren't set and final details are not nailed down. A "hold" is usually requested when the hiring body hasn't made up their mades regarding repertoire yet (or when the dates are SO far ahead that things may change in the interim). These requests are often made by email rather than paper contract (but email now counts as "in writing" and binding, so there is some recourse).

In your situation, where you're still ramping up your business, might a "hold" arrangement be a viable option? Perhaps with reservation fee - non-refundable if she changes her mind, but you will refund if your circumstances change. You could include language which specifies by when the "hold" will turn to a binding, formal contract.

Again, since I'm not a wedding 'tog I may be out of line here (so take with a LARGE grain of salt), but just sharing what happens in another artistic discipline.......

I think there's a lot of merit in your suggestion - flexibility on both sides when it's that far out is a goodness.

Art Scott

At 2 yrs out I would do a DM suggested and do a "date hold" with 1/2 of the retainer...non refundable .....at the 1 yr mark rest of retainer is due and at whatever you choose the final fees are paid......I have offered this in the past.....book today or this month and seal the prices even if the wedding is years away.....but make it clear that non of the retainer is refundable and that the couple need to stay in contact if addresses or circumstances change......I will allow bookings out to 5 yrs but do not allow payment until no more than 90days before wedding date.....I do not want to be responsible for holding that money....not in todays economy especially.........

squiddy

Great Suggestions on all sides... thanks so much for your input.

I've added her on my facebook paged and helped her with some suggestions for reception sites and engagement shoot sites. She seems very down to earth and easy to get along with... but maybe a bit too indecisive. Who knows... she JUST got engaged so there's always a lot running though your brain at this point.

Also with the 2 years out, she may change her mind on the date. She is setting it for Aug 2011, but she said it may be a bit earlier. I would say getting a retainer [non refundable] to hold the date and do the engagement session now would be acceptable. We can set up a payment plan [her suggestion, which i'm fine with] and say that as long as I have the date open, the date is subject to change and does not equal cancellation, however if the date they wish to change too is booked their payments will be returned? I don't like the idea of hosing people if i haven't really done any work.



Do a lot of you guys have a standard contract with sections that are negotiable or changeable per wedding? Or do you create new contracts for each occasion?

mmmatt

Some good suggestions here Squiddy! I agree that a "date hold" is a good idea, but if the date isn't firm you have nothing other than intent and an engagement session. Personally I would shoot the engagement session at my full-pop e-session cost and then write in THAT contract that those moneys will be applied toward their wedding contract if they book with you.

In my case, I include an e-session with every wedding package if they put up a 50% retainer. I did this to add value, inspire the e-session, and obviously to get 50% retainers. Shooting the e-session gives me a better relationship with my clients and helps me understand how to shoot them on their big day. The 50% retainer thing makes it less of a freebie in peoples minds so it has more value, and then of course it keeps the money wheel rolling. Also, if for some reason the wedding doesn't happen, I walk away with a fair price for my e-session and something more for my loss in a booking. This hasn't happened yet but that is my reasoning!

So, in my case I get $250 for a 1 hr e-session but I always try to shoot 2 hrs. My basic wedding package is $1750. I would write my contact for an e-session at $350 and note that all monies from the e-session (other than print/book allowances if they request that be in the contract) will be discounted from their wedding package price if they book me for a wedding occurring on or before Aug 2011. I would put in a disclaimer that their date is contingent upon my availability and if I am unable to honor their date request for any reason, no refunds will be given. Client has the option to book as soon as the date is finalized.

This protects you, protects them, sells an e-session and if things change with you in any way there will be no hard feelings because they have awesome e-session photos and paid a fair price for them.

That is how I would play this one! Also, you said earlier that you had to quick throw together a contract. I don't have a premade contract specific to this, but if you would like an editable MS Word copy of my basic wedding contract I would be happy to email it to you for your use. Just PM me with your addy. Not saying my contract is the end all to wedding contracts but certainly a place for you to start if you are interested.

Matt