Help me buy into a system!
I'm looking into picking up a DSLR. I understand that I will be buying into the lens and it is one of the more important choices so I was looking for some help in selecting some lens for my subject interests. I take interest in shooting...
Finding lenses for the above subjects will hopefully help me decide Nikon or Canon (I plan on starting with a Canon 50D or Nikon D90 depending the lenses recommended - I've handled both and they both feel great in my hands so I'd like to leave it up to the lens)
- scenery and land/nightscapes
- architecture
- some people for family gatherings/dinners
Finding lenses for the above subjects will hopefully help me decide Nikon or Canon (I plan on starting with a Canon 50D or Nikon D90 depending the lenses recommended - I've handled both and they both feel great in my hands so I'd like to leave it up to the lens)
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That's the beauty of DSLRs, chose the camera body that suits your needs and budget and then the same for the lens.
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That having been said, either of the cameras to which you refer will hold you in good stead for your identified photographic focus (no pun intended).
Here's a short list of things you may want to consider:
- Hold the cameras in your hands. Play with/learn the controls and what they do. Does one feel better in your hands? Does one just feel right?
- Availability/price/performance of accessories - as you grow, can you easily get what you want, when you want it, and a price you can afford?
- Architecture - that implies the future need for a perspective correcting (aka, a tilt/shift) lens. Canon has a number of these. Not a flame or slam ... I don't know what is available in a Nikon mount. Do they?
I'm a Canon shooter so I can talk to the lens that are available for that line:- Scenary .... All sorts of options.
- The Canon EF-S 10-22 is a very nice lens.
- By the same token, the Sigma 10-20 is also well thought of.
- The EF 16-35
- The EF 17-40
- I don't know anything about architecture photography, I'll have to let someone else address that
- People
I hope the above has been of some help....- How about the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS - I love this lens
- Or the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8
- Or the Sigma 17-50 f/2.8
- Or the EF 24-105 f/4 - might be a bit long (and slow) for indoor shooting, but it makes a really nice walking around lens on either a crop sensor body like the 50D or on a full-frame camera such as the 5DII.
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Canon 10-22mm/Nikon 10-24mm(both very nice lenses)
Tokina 11-16mm(a very nice third party lens that would work well with either system)
As for people/general photography I think a fast zoom like scott mentioned would suit you well. If you have the money the Canon 17-55 or the Nikon 17-55 are both excellent lenses. On the cheaper side, I have both the Tamron 17-50 2.8 and the Sigma 18-50 2.8 and they are both great general people lenses.
I also have recently started shooting with more prime lenses and Nikon's new 35mm 1.8 is a great general low light lens as is the 85mm 1.8 which rocks for head shots. Canon has equivalent primes for both of these lenses so no real advantage there for either camp.
I've shot with both Canon and Nikon and honestly they have their pros and cons for each system. Before choosing a system I would also take a look at the bodies that each company is making that are above the range you are looking too. Which brand is offering more of what you would want in an eventual upgrade? Check lens prices, Canon lenses are typically a little more affordable than the Nikon equivalent so that may play in. Check out flash systems, I really liked the ability to have a wireless system using my pop-up flash in Nikon CLS but the new Canon 7D has this as well so I would imagine the Canon line will move towards having this in most future models.
In the end it comes down to what you are comfortable with. If you like the feel of the Canon system better, you are going to enjoy shooting more with that camera. I think its kind of like Ford/Chevy or Pepsi/Coke. They are both great systems and both have TONS of room to grow. You will find professionals for all sorts of photography using both systems so you really cant go wrong with either.
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YseanY, welcome to the Digital Grin.
Your needs are reasonably typical and I doubt that either Nikon or Canon systems would be limiting.
Starting with the people/event application, a "standard/normal" zoom lens is typically used and on a crop 1.5x/1.6x system lenses of 17-55mm-ish range are common. A larger constant aperture lens (f2.8) generally offers more flexibility as well as generally better image quality and faster, more accurate focus.
For scenery and landscape/nightscapes, a wider angle of view is often suggested for "vista" landscapes but any lens may be used, depending more on the scene. Considering the suggested cameras I would recommend a 10-20mm-ish zoom, in addition to the above zoom, to cover many applications.
You should also be aware of lenses which have "movements" to allow better correction of perspective and depth. In the Nikon land these are called "Perspective Control" or "PC" lenses for short. In Canon they are called "Tilt and Shift" or "TS" for short. Both allow elemental adjustments of the optics to adjust the perspective and depth of field, similar to a view camera movements.
Specific lens recommendations for a Nikon system might include:
Super-Wide zooms
Nikkor 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5G ED AF-S DX
Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G IF-ED AF-S DX
Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED AF-S
Standard zoom
Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED AF-S DX
... and for Canon:
Super-Wide
Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
Standard
Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM
(Note that Canon EF-S and Nikon DX lenses are designed to be used on their respective crop cameras.)
Third party lenses, available for either system:
Sigma 10-20mm, f/4-5.6 EX DC HSM
Sigma 10-20mm, f/3.5 EX DC HSM
Tokina 12-24mm, f/4 PRO DX
Tokina AT-X 11-16mm, f2.8 PRO DX
Tamron SP 11-18mm, f4.5-f5.6 Di-II LD Aspherical [IF]
Tamron SP 10-24mm, f3.5-f4.5 Di-II LD Aspherical [IF]
Tamron 17-50mm F/2.8 Di-II LD Aspherical
I also recommend the use of flash for the people and event photography plus suitable flash modifier.
I recommend a decent tripod and head for any long exposure work, like nightscapes.
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Sony, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic....
Also Canon's lens lineup has more selection from the standard range on up. Like 4 different 70-200s, a 100-400, and a 17-55/2.8 with IS. Nikkor has more selection in the super-wide zoom range.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
For non-pro use, a D90 is a terrific choice. Personally I would prefer a used D300 for it's more rugged body and switchgear. However, it is an older body and significantly more expensive than a brand new D90. For your application, the D90 would be a better fit.
I would also get the $100 SB-400 flash. Just flip up head, put on the 35mm 1.8 and shoot indoors in any light. Unless you're a pro I feel spending any more on a flash is kind of silly. Save the money and put it toward a better body.
For a Canon the inexpensive 18-55IS or the 28-135 with the telezoom 55-250IS is a good combination, adding a flash and cheap 50mm 1.8 is also a good addition
Choose the camera which feels best. I know you said you liked both, but let the ergonomics and overall handling ultimately be your guide - both are good picture-taking machines.
I'm a Canon shooter simply because my film SLR was Canon and I stuck with them pretty much for that reason alone, but it's worked out well for me. If I was buying a new Canon DSLR rig from scratch I would probably consider one of the combos below. I'm assuming you want to buy new at this point (although there are some excellent used bargains out there - used 50d's are turning up at very attractive prices now the 7d has hit the market, and sometimes people buy the "kit" of a camera when they don't need the lens, so 28-135is seems to be appearing a lot recently too)
Budget
- xsi or T1i with Tamron 17-50 2.8 and Canon 55-250is lenses. Total cost, +/- $1200
I'm a big fan of the xsi - people may turn up their noses at the Rebel moniker, but it's essentially a 40D under the hood (same processor and many of the same features). With an added grip it handles nicely (and fits bigger hands better), but can still turn into a VERY lightweight travel camera when needed. I've been very happy with mine. The T1i is essentially the same camera with video capability, and slightly better high ISO performance, comparable to the innards of the 50D (although high ISO performance is generally agreed to be a bit better than the 50D)
The Tamron is, quite simply, a fantastic all-around lens. It does the job and it does it affordably. I love mine; despite having a bag of other really good lenses (including L glass, Canon's pro/top of the line lenses) the Tamron is still the one I grab most often. The 55-250is is a "consumer" lens, but has great optics, and the IS works well. THe only reason I sold mine was because I needed a tele with a faster (smaller number) aperture. I would recommend the 17-50 for any crop camera if you need a zoom in that range.
If you need to save money, get the kit 18-55 in the short term - it's a surprisingly good starter lens, and you could do a lot worse.
More $ to burn
- 7d w/ kit 28-135 lens (easier to find than just the body), or the lenses as recommended above. A spendier option would be the 24-105L + quality wide angle to cover your architectural needs, but you may want to wait until you've used your new camera a while to decide if you want to go that route. The beauty of buying the more popular lenses (ie Tam 17-50) is that they have surprisingly good resale value, so you can change things later on as your style and needs become clearer to you. Total cost +/- $1800-2000
Why skip the 50d? Absolutely nothing wrong with it at all, just my own personal prejudice: for me, I'm just not crazy about the handling on the xxD series. I'm in the minority here, however, so take this with a grain of salt, ymmv, just my opinion etc etc. HOWEVER... for what amounts to a $400 difference retail, I think the 7D is a much better machine. Yes, it's a more pro camera and you may feel it's overkill - it might be. But it also IMO handles better and if you start to take your photography more seriously will grow into it. It all depends on the $ available, of course - it IS a more expensive camera and there is absolutly nothing "wrong" with the 50d, so if you like it then save the money and put it towards another lens
If you plan on needing flash, then add another $300-400 for either a 430exII or 580exII OR go the strobist route and invest in two manual flashes (www.strobist.com for details - check out Lighting 101)
Hopeing Jonathan Swinton (Swinton Photo) will chime in about Oly and the 4/3 systems...........
My system is:
Pentax K200D
Sigma 10-20mm
Pentax 18-55
Pentax FA 50 1.4
Tamron 90mm 2.8 Macro
AF360FGZ flash
and a whole bunch of manual focus prime lenses from the 80s
For sure budget for flash. I didn't believe the hype until I bought one, completely changes your photography. Don't forget a good tripod for those landscapes, particularly at dusk.
One of my favourite lenses is a 25-year old manual focus Pentax SMC-M 100mm 2.8. My Pentax DSLR can meter with it, and stabilize it. Fantastic portrait lens.
I went to check out the camera bodies again and it seems like the Canon feels a little better in the hand (grip wise) but the button layouts on the Nikon feels better. I did not get a chance to play with the menu as the Best Buy in my area could not power up either camera.
Looking at the 17-55mm f2.8 lenses from both brands, the cost comes out the same if bought new. The price difference in the body is made up in the lens. There is, however, more of a used market for the Canon and finding used Nikon lenses are a little bit harder to come by. As for the wide angel lens, the Canon 10-22mm and Nikon 10-24mm sees to be about the same price. This is really a toss up for me!
Since the systems come out to be about the same price. Can anyone comment on the build quality of Nikon vs Canon lens? I noticed that some of the Nikon lenses are now made in China (I understand that quality parts still can come out of China as it is the QC that is important, but Japan tends to be more associated with quality electronics - though may or may not be correct). Has Nikon lenses drop in quality because of this? Anyone experience quality issues with either companies?
For UWA, I definitely would recommend the Tokina 12-24/4. If you're OK with picking up used gear, you can pick up one of the originals (version I) for about half the price of a new Canon 10-22. Even if you go with the new version II, you'll save yourself $200 over a new 10-22. The IQ on this lens is excellent.
For a general walkaround lens, I have the 24-105/4 IS and I absolutely love it for this purpose. While 24mm is closer to normal than wide on the 1.6x sensor, this range works for 85-90% of the shooting that I do. It also has a nice close-up range which I really like when I don't have a dedicated macro lens with me.
When I switched from Pentax to Canon this summer, one of the reasons I did so is the wider variety of accessories that are available for the Canon (i.e. extension tubes, teleconverters, etc), both Canon-branded and 3rd party. If you don't have a want or need for these types of specialized accessories and you don't anticipate ever wanting to get a FF body, then Pentax is definitely worth taking a look at, especially if you like the idea of traveling light--think pancake lenses.
Besides the fact that my parents gave me my 40D body for my birthday, I probably would've chosen Canon over Nikon anyhow because of the lens lineup. As somebody else previously mentioned, Canon lenses tend to run a little bit less expensive than their Nikon equivalents. Since I don't need constant 2.8 zooms most of the time, but still wanted constant aperture zooms, Canon fills this want nicely for me with the f4 zooms. In addition to the 24-105 I mentioned previously, I also have 70-200/4 IS to round out my zoom collection nicely.
HTH,
Heather
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