Appropriate fee for product photography services??
tekkiegrrl
Registered Users Posts: 5 Beginner grinner
Hello all,
I am just getting started doing professional work and need your opinion. I have an opportunity to do some product shots for a health and beauty website. I need to provide 3-5 shots of 15-20 different products. I quoted the owner a price of $20 a product. She indicated she believed the price to be too high because some of her products only cost $9. Also, she is not paying me cash, but instead we are bartering - she will give me photo credit on her website, and an amount of her product that is equivalent to the price we quote her. I felt $20 per product was reasonable despite the products cost, because it's not any less effort for me to photograph the object, and she is paying for the service. Also, I am sure she has other items that cost more than $20. Am I being unreasonable, or should I be charging by the hour? Or is it simply enough that she will give me photo credit on her site? Any and all feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I am just getting started doing professional work and need your opinion. I have an opportunity to do some product shots for a health and beauty website. I need to provide 3-5 shots of 15-20 different products. I quoted the owner a price of $20 a product. She indicated she believed the price to be too high because some of her products only cost $9. Also, she is not paying me cash, but instead we are bartering - she will give me photo credit on her website, and an amount of her product that is equivalent to the price we quote her. I felt $20 per product was reasonable despite the products cost, because it's not any less effort for me to photograph the object, and she is paying for the service. Also, I am sure she has other items that cost more than $20. Am I being unreasonable, or should I be charging by the hour? Or is it simply enough that she will give me photo credit on her site? Any and all feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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I am not kidding.
Actually you are under pricing yourself to get 3-5 really good shots is going to take some time and then you have to process the shots and then deliver back to her........give her an hourly fee of $50-75 per hour and explain you'll probably only get 1 or 2 products per hour due to each product takes its own set up, lighting etc etc etc......unless you want to do one set up and do a conveyor type shoot with no creativity involved...........
I like your response. Thanks!
You're welcome.
I have done some small product photography.
This is COMMERCIAL photography. There is so much to do with that - it's not a portrait with out commercial value.
Your gear costs money.
Your lights cost money.
How long did it take you to learn to photograph her product?
What materials are you using to shoot it?
What's your time worth? Not just for shooting it, but processing the images, burning a disk
I calculate my hourly must have rate x 3 at a minimum since the time to shoot is about 1/3 the time so by what you are saying at $20 a product if you spend 15-20 minutes setting each shot up, testing the light, and then processing the image you are making less than minimum wage. And that's not even including the price of your gear, camera, lens, lights, batteries, set, electricity, telephone, computer, Website. What'd you pay an attorney to set up and review your contract? Did you get an accountant's help in setting your pricing? The real bottom line here at $20 is that you are paying your client to shoot this job.
Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
http://flashfrozenphotography.com
Tell her I will gladly accept several of her products in return for my telling my friends that the products came from her!!!
Seriously, you have grossly underpriced your services.
Professional photographers do not work for free, and working for a photo credit is working for free.
Free doesn't pay your bills, your camera equipment, or your depreciation.
If you are going pro, the first thing you must do is draw up a business plan, figure out what your cost of doing business is, then from that you will be able to calculate what you must charge in order to support your business. There are several books and articles listed in this section , also if you scan this section you will find numerous posts discussing this same thing.
For this job, though, as Art has pointed out, you will be spending a lot more time on the assignment than the time it takes to click your shutter. Travel , set up and take down, several shots in order to get the one or two that will be used, post processing, and meeting with her again to decide which shots will be used, and prints or cd ( if she wants hard copies).
Your time is valuable.
Oh, and don't forget the most important thing of all- a CONTRACT!!!
Yes, be sure to get it all in writing- and specify what the price will be for her specific usage. You will of course retain copyright, and license the photos to her to use for a specific amount of time in specific media. It's good to get a retainer up front, so that if she decides she doesn't want to pay for photos after all, you've earned something for the time you spent shooting.
I have a feeling when you approach her as the true professional that you are, you will find that she doesn't really want a professional after all, she just wants a guy with a camera to take free photos for her.
But this will be a good learning experience for you so you will be ready for the next assignment that comes along!
I visited your web site and it looks like your trying to build your portfolio. That (in my mind) along with the barter puts this in different category. If you want the job, I think your going to have to be more flexibly with the negotiations, but don't give it away.
Also the cosmetics probably cost her less than 50% of the retail price. So the cost to her is pretty good. Unless the cosmetics are something you would buy anyway the value to you is even less.
If you want the job for you portfolio anyway I would ask why 3 to 5 shots of each product. Is it to ensure a good final image or is it 3 to 5 different looks? That makes a big difference. If she is asking for multiple shots simply to ensure a good usable image then you can reduce the number of shots processed by simply explaining you will guarantee the image to meet agreed upon criteria. If she wants 3 to 5 different looks then it's very close to 3 to 5 different products and does need to be charged accordingly.
Maybe look at how much she is willing to pay and how much time it will take you to take and process X number of shots then develop a package that will meet both of these needs.
I would also explain that with an online sales business one key way to set your product apart from the crowd is the web site and the product presentation. IE: photograph. A better photography will look more professional, and be more appealing resulting in greater sales. That is worth more than cheap photography that could actually drive sales away.
Bottom line is you can be flexible but don't undervalue your work. Decide the point at which your willing to walk away from the job.
Sam
I would add that in my business I am often asked to barter. My very common answer is that bartering does not pay for my costs of product for resale nor does it pay my mortgage. My rule and barterers don't like to hear this but, but don't unless you really use the product or know that you will be using the service, ie plumber within a short period of time.
Thanks to everyone for your feedback! Here's the best part: I had a conference call scheduled with her at 6 PM tonight. I called her promptly at 6, she didn't answer, I left a message, and she hasn't returned the call yet.
My reasoning for charging $50.00 an hour was the market I'm in, and the advise I got here when I started.
As for this lady, I'd say she can go some place else to have her work done. She's complaining about $20.00 per product (about $40.00 per hour if you do 2 per hour), plus she won't return your calls, and she missed an appointment. That doesn't sound like a professional businesswoman to me. I also question if you have this hard of a time getting ahold of her for the pre-production meetings, how hard of a time will you have when it's time for her to pay the invoice?
I'd chalk this up as a lost cause and move on. In the future though, I'd suggest you figure out your costs and charge per job or per hour and not per product. At least that's how the larger companies do it.
Commercial Photographer
http://www.FredJClaus.com
http://www.Fredjclaus.com/originals
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When your dealing with someone on craigslist who is looking for a real cheap deal, and isn't even going to pay in nearly worthless American money but in cosmetics your bound to have these kinds of problems. Her cost is somewhere between $0.25 and $0.50 per dollar, so what she is really telling you is that she doesn't think 3 to 5 shots of a product is worth $5.00 or $10.00 to her.
Look at this way, you have gained a lot information and thought hard about this subject. You will be better prepared for the next opportunity.
Sam
This "potential customer" already devalued the photographer's work before even getting anything! Not returning calls/missing appointments is a HUGE red flag. This is just for her to GET photos. Imagine trying to get paid, or getting her product in exchange if bartering. What a message that sends.... I've had that happen, and have pointed this very issue out to them (if I finally hear back from them). Some may not even realize how this comes across. After that, I move on.
I agree about the bartering advice too. No sense doing that if you don't use the product/service. I let them know if I even use such services or not. It has to be of *equal value* to what I'm offering. Some assume their service/product would be accepted, just because...
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I started out shooting as a hobby 3 years ago, and just in the past year I had to run around like a madwoman because I'd been getting price requests. So on with the research to be prepared (ooooh boy)...
A year ago I got my first Product Photography gig, at a major publisher (Reader's Digest Canada) for one of their health magazines they launched here. I was referred to by a freelance designer friend just because she saw my "samples" on my site! When they asked for my rates, I had created a general price list to prepare for any amount of work, based on my time/costs/profit (after shooting many products for myself to see how long it would take me). Not all of it may apply to all clients, but I had to consider many possible requests and list them ahead of time so they know what I do, the value of my work, and what charges/costs to expect. I had broken down the mandatory charges (applicable to every job) into three parts:
1) Creative/set-up fee --- 1/2-day rate, and full-day rate (MINIMUM charge is 1/2-day rate whether they only had 1 product, or 10+, or cancelled after booking)
I also calculated an hourly rate like others mentioned, based on my own set-up time, overhead costs, travel and profit. However, I did not reveal that rate to the client. I just used it to calculate my MINIMUM 1/2-day rate and full-day rates as a creative/set-up fee, etc.
2) Product Pricing --- ($$ per-shot groupings, from 1-20, 21-60, 61-100... 100+ I do a custom quote) based on image processing time, etc.
Two or more shots of the same item is discounted (first shot at regular price, two or more slightly less). I list what this includes (Photoshop touch-ups, seamless white background, preservation of natural shadows -- not "fake" drop- shadows, online review of photos, web-optimized and Hi-res images, Items on CD, or whatever).
3) Image Licensing -- based on usage/value/time period. I used FotoQuote's advice as a guide for this pricing
I also have in writing that I retain copyright and the right to use images for promo purposes/stock.
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Extras/Optional (not necessarily for every job):
- Rush service - per product
- Close-cropping/clipping paths (esp. if products' edges are more complex)
- Extra CD copies
- Product Assembly (if I have to assemble a product before shooting it, etc.) hourly rate -- charged in 15-minute increments, based on client approval after quoting them. I've gotten a bunch of individual gift basket items, items shipped in pieces due to shipping concerns, etc., --- things I had to put together first before shooting. Does not include "group shot" arrangement. This is actual assembly. Unexpected and time-consuming. It all counts!
I don't supply fancy "props" yet. My resources ain't that big just yet! Send me your stuff and I'll shoot it!
This list may seem detailed, and may not work for everyone, but it works for me. I also realized that it saved answering the same questions, and some also needed to have things itemized/broken down and spelled out for them. Saved me a lot of time. I just send the list as a PDF to anyone asking for rates. The research and experimenting also gave me the confidence to charge what I charge, and behave like my work has value (which it does). I started out pricing like this from the beginning so that anyone who asks, will realize I value my work.
RD didn't even bat an eye at my prices. Neither did subsequent clients who wanted to pay for value. Any tirekickers who disappeared were never ready to pay, period...long before they asked for my rates. No loss there.
Now I use this breakdown as a guide for other projects that may come along, with relevant changes of course (sporting events, band shots, physique photo shoots, etc).
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After that, I shot for a design firm who needed shots of those fancy complex Math calculators and other products for a high-school textbook (which I helped design too).
Oh yeah. This reminds me to finally add a "Published" gallery to my site.
Hope some of this helps for next time, tekkiegrrl. Good luck and happy shooting!
Paula
Film/TV Stills Photography
"When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt." ~ Henry J. Kaiser
$20 per product is relatively cheap. The fact that she sells her items for $9 is completely irrelevant to your situation. The odds of her selling 1 of each item is pretty slim.
The quote for the photography as mentioned several times is your decision alone. It is based on your costs, your time, and your ability.
The price of the item being photographed has nothing to do with you whatsoever.
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