Animoto and smugmug

jasonstone

Firstly - animoto rocks with smugmug - awesome stuff!

i tried embedding the clip direct from animoto at 640px and from smugmug at 640px
looks like animoto is a bit sharper / clearer at this resolution

any suggestions? have you checked it out?

check it out:

******** type="text/javascript" src="http://wanimoto.clearspring.com/o/46928cc51133af17/4ae1884a3a2ecc6f/46928cc51133af17/670dff55/-cpid/7030c40b87ea236a/-EMH/240/-EMW/432/widget.js"></********

<object width="640" height="356" ><param name="movie" value="http://www.stonesque.com/ria/ShizVidz-2009090604.swf" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="flashVars" value="s=ZT0xJmk9Njg5ODU3MDI0Jms9UTduaTMmYT0xMDA2MDE5MF9jQmF6ZCZ1PWphc29uc3RvbmU=" /><embed src="http://www.stonesque.com/ria/ShizVidz-2009090604.swf" flashVars="s=ZT0xJmk9Njg5ODU3MDI0Jms9UTduaTMmYT0xMDA2MDE5MF9jQmF6ZCZ1PWphc29uc3RvbmU=" width="640" height="356" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true"></embed></object>

not sure about embedding - but i put CODE tags around it - that way you can copy paste it

cheers
Jase

Mohamed.Ghuloom

I've been using animoto video on my homepage, it's better than a slideshow

SamirD

jasonstone wrote:

not sure about embedding - but i put CODE tags around it - that way you can copy paste it

Just post links to both videos. I'm very interested in this as I could be using Animoto A LOT in the next year or so.

AnimotoBecky

Yes, our DVD-Quality downloads are 864 x 480. If you upload the mp4 version of that, perhaps then you can get the full-on resolution?

jasonstone wrote:

Firstly - animoto rocks with smugmug - awesome stuff!

i tried embedding the clip direct from animoto at 640px and from smugmug at 640px
looks like animoto is a bit sharper / clearer at this resolution

any suggestions? have you checked it out?

check it out:

******** type="text/javascript" src="http://wanimoto.clearspring.com/o/46928cc51133af17/4ae1884a3a2ecc6f/46928cc51133af17/670dff55/-cpid/7030c40b87ea236a/-EMH/240/-EMW/432/widget.js"></********

<object width="640" height="356" ><param name="movie" value="http://www.stonesque.com/ria/ShizVidz-2009090604.swf" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="flashVars" value="s=ZT0xJmk9Njg5ODU3MDI0Jms9UTduaTMmYT0xMDA2MDE5MF9jQmF6ZCZ1PWphc29uc3RvbmU=" /><embed src="http://www.stonesque.com/ria/ShizVidz-2009090604.swf" flashVars="s=ZT0xJmk9Njg5ODU3MDI0Jms9UTduaTMmYT0xMDA2MDE5MF9jQmF6ZCZ1PWphc29uc3RvbmU=" width="640" height="356" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true"></embed></object>

not sure about embedding - but i put CODE tags around it - that way you can copy paste it

cheers
Jase

Dan7312

AnimotoBecky, two of the links in your profile are wrong.


Kirk Voclain:
http://animoto/com/go/kirk

should be
http://animoto.com/go/kirk

but it's broken anyhow

David Ziser:
http://animoto/com/go/david

should be
http://animoto.com/go/david

AnimotoBecky wrote:

Yes, our DVD-Quality downloads are 864 x 480. If you upload the mp4 version of that, perhaps then you can get the full-on resolution?

Dan7312

Also the videos on those pages don't seem to work... all I see is



When I try to play them.

Dan7312 wrote:

AnimotoBecky, two of the links in your profile are wrong.


Kirk Voclain:
http://animoto/com/go/kirk

should be
http://animoto.com/go/kirk

but it's broken anyhow

David Ziser:
http://animoto/com/go/david

should be
http://animoto.com/go/david

jasonstone

AnimotoBecky wrote:

Yes, our DVD-Quality downloads are 864 x 480. If you upload the mp4 version of that, perhaps then you can get the full-on resolution?

Actually i was embedding the 640px version - not the DVD quality download - just the regular mp4
this regular mp4 after importing by smugmug loses some quality

that's my problem at the moment...

AnimotoBecky

Good to know. Thanks for the clarification. Will add that to our list of future upgrades we can make to our SmugMug/Animoto integration!

jasonstone wrote:

Actually i was embedding the 640px version - not the DVD quality download - just the regular mp4
this regular mp4 after importing by smugmug loses some quality

that's my problem at the moment...

SamirD

jasonstone wrote:

Actually i was embedding the 640px version - not the DVD quality download - just the regular mp4
this regular mp4 after importing by smugmug loses some quality

that's my problem at the moment...

I've run into this too in my testing.

Watch these two links fullscreen:
http://animoto.com/play/ul10w6xXRmyVl0LHG8UYig?autostart=true
http://newpics.huntsvillecarscene.com/Other/Animoto/10145380_QBZXC#697685242_yToYa-A-LB

The Smugmug one, which was directly transferred from Animoto, loses sharpness. I can't tell if it is because it is being scaled down (and it makes more sense if this is the case), but it still doesn't fix the problem. The other thing may just be loss due to the encode-decode-encode process if Smugmug is re-coding the video. This is analogous to the old issue of loss between generational copies of VHS tapes. If Animoto videos do not need to be re-encoded for Smugmug, a flag could be set on these videos so they would not be subject to the encode-decode-encode process.

Any feedback appreciated. My users probably couldn't tell the difference, but I can.

AnimotoBecky

Hi Samir,

Yep, the online quality isn't as sharp as I'm sure you'd like. A lot of people have been uploading their DVD-Quality downloads, although we are hoping to make that exportation of the hi-res vids automated and furthermore, improving the sharpness of our online vids.

SamirD wrote:

I've run into this too in my testing.

Watch these two links fullscreen:
http://animoto.com/play/ul10w6xXRmyVl0LHG8UYig?autostart=true
http://newpics.huntsvillecarscene.com/Other/Animoto/10145380_QBZXC#697685242_yToYa-A-LB

The Smugmug one, which was directly transferred from Animoto, loses sharpness. I can't tell if it is because it is being scaled down (and it makes more sense if this is the case), but it still doesn't fix the problem. The other thing may just be loss due to the encode-decode-encode process if Smugmug is re-coding the video. This is analogous to the old issue of loss between generational copies of VHS tapes. If Animoto videos do not need to be re-encoded for Smugmug, a flag could be set on these videos so they would not be subject to the encode-decode-encode process.

Any feedback appreciated. My users probably couldn't tell the difference, but I can.

jasonstone

AnimotoBecky wrote:

Hi Samir,

Yep, the online quality isn't as sharp as I'm sure you'd like. A lot of people have been uploading their DVD-Quality downloads, although we are hoping to make that exportation of the hi-res vids automated and furthermore, improving the sharpness of our online vids.

i was doing a direct comparison between the web resolution 640px embedded that animoto offers

and the smugmug version also at 640px - where the smugmug version was exported from animoto - I assume that Animoto is exporting the 640px sized clip to smugmug and thus it's not that smugmug is up-res-ing a lower quality file

i don't have the pro account on animoto for unlimited DVD quality videos - only the 30usd one where i get unlimited web sized clips

SamirD

jasonstone wrote:

i was doing a direct comparison between the web resolution 640px embedded that animoto offers

and the smugmug version also at 640px - where the smugmug version was exported from animoto - I assume that Animoto is exporting the 640px sized clip to smugmug and thus it's not that smugmug is up-res-ing a lower quality file

i don't have the pro account on animoto for unlimited DVD quality videos - only the 30usd one where i get unlimited web sized clips

So where do you think the quality loss is coming from? Re-encoding by SM? Have you tried uploading a DVD quality one from Animoto? Did you still see a difference between Animoto and SM?

jasonstone

SamirD wrote:

So where do you think the quality loss is coming from? Re-encoding by SM? Have you tried uploading a DVD quality one from Animoto? Did you still see a difference between Animoto and SM?

I don't need a DVD quality clip - so I'm not going to pay for it just to test the uploading into smugmug - I believe that between animoto and smugmug they'll be able to test this pretty easily

I'm guessing that it could be either:
1) that animoto is feeding smugmug a web quality video (possibly less than 640px resolution), not dvd quality, for importing into smugmug accounts

or

2) that smugmug's re-encoding is losing some of the information


Honestly I don't know - that's why I asked here!

Andy? Doc? Anyone?

AnimotoBecky

Hi Jason,

It's the 1st option. Currently we're exporting the web quality. We're hoping to soon have the hi-res versions be exported. When exactly? Not 100% sure, but I'll keep you updated around that.

jasonstone wrote:

I don't need a DVD quality clip - so I'm not going to pay for it just to test the uploading into smugmug - I believe that between animoto and smugmug they'll be able to test this pretty easily

I'm guessing that it could be either:
1) that animoto is feeding smugmug a web quality video (possibly less than 640px resolution), not dvd quality, for importing into smugmug accounts

or

2) that smugmug's re-encoding is losing some of the information


Honestly I don't know - that's why I asked here!

Andy? Doc? Anyone?

Mark Ledingham

Becky, will the hi-res versions be offered for ALL of your customers? I'm asking since I've "only" invested $30 in Animoto. I sure hope the image quality will improve - even for web-quality videos.

jasonstone

AnimotoBecky wrote:

Hi Jason,

It's the 1st option. Currently we're exporting the web quality. We're hoping to soon have the hi-res versions be exported. When exactly? Not 100% sure, but I'll keep you updated around that.

thanks for the answer Becky - and I must say thankyou for the open and honest replies - it very refreshing in this day and age

Mark does raise a good point though - would you export high-res (dvd quality) to smugmug even when we've "only" got the $30 web quality account?

Thanks
Jason

AnimotoBecky

Very good question. I'm not entirely sure, but am going to write our TechTeam now regarding this and will relay their answer once I get word from them!

jasonstone wrote:

thanks for the answer Becky - and I must say thankyou for the open and honest replies - it very refreshing in this day and age

Mark does raise a good point though - would you export high-res (dvd quality) to smugmug even when we've "only" got the $30 web quality account?

Thanks
Jason

AnimotoBecky

Ask and you shall receive. TechGuys say anyone who has up-res'd a vid (even All-Access Pass holders) will be able to send over the hi-res version back to SM.

AnimotoBecky wrote:

Very good question. I'm not entirely sure, but am going to write our TechTeam now regarding this and will relay their answer once I get word from them!

jasonstone

AnimotoBecky wrote:

Ask and you shall receive. TechGuys say anyone who has up-res'd a vid (even All-Access Pass holders) will be able to send over the hi-res version back to SM.

ahhh but that still leaves the issue that a web sized clip that is exported to smugmug and processed by smugmug - note that no sizes have changed (as far as I know) looks less sharp than the web sized original on animoto

curious as to why - but I guess it must be down to smugmug's re-encoding process.

I don't want to pay $5 for up-resing a movie everytime I want to export it to smugmug just to get the same quality 640px video in smugmug as the 640px video in animoto

Hope I'm making sense here...

SamirD

jasonstone wrote:

ahhh but that still leaves the issue that a web sized clip that is exported to smugmug and processed by smugmug - note that no sizes have changed (as far as I know) looks less sharp than the web sized original on animoto

curious as to why - but I guess it must be down to smugmug's re-encoding process.

My thoughts exactly. Based on this methodology, that means that even a higher resolution copy will still look less sharp in SM than in Animoto. I've yet found time to try it, but I will and post results here.

asozzi

The issue may be the player.

SamirD wrote:

My thoughts exactly. Based on this methodology, that means that even a higher resolution copy will still look less sharp in SM than in Animoto.

I have the same issues, i.e the web version animoto creates is low but OK quality, the video automatically transferred to smugmug and viewed on smugums internal player is of even lower quality.

Since this problem is really evident with text I did a little comparison by taking screen shots of two different scenes in the full screen modus. Comparison
It is quite clear that the same scene on smugmug looks a lot more pixelated and watching the video you can actually see horizontal striping. Now the full screen mode exacerbates the issue but the same thing occurs in the original 604x480 format.

But then I downloaded the .mp4 file from Smugmug and played it in VLC and took the third set of screenshots. And they look very much like the original Animoto shots.

As a final comparison I re-uploaded both the Original Animoto and the Smugmug .mp4 files to YouTube. I have to say the results look somewhere between the original animoto file and the Smugmug Online. But even so the re-uploaded Animoto file was crisper.

I would have to say that the following quality levels are true:
1: Animoto direct is best
2: Download animoto and re-upload to Youtube
3: Download Smugmug File and re-upload to Youtube
4: Smugmug Online Viewer

Conclusion:
Smugmug transcoding is losing a lot of quality. Youtube does a better job it seems. For whatever reason the Smugmug .mp4 file is better quality than what is shown online (or the flash viewer is not as good).

Smugmug and Animoto need to have a heart to heart on how the file gets treated when sent directly.

jasonstone

asozzi wrote:

I have the same issues, i.e the web version animoto creates is low but OK quality, the video automatically transferred to smugmug and viewed on smugums internal player is of even lower quality.
<snip>

very very VERY thorough!! nice work!!

fingers crossed the smugmug heroes and animoto see this and have a pow-wow

AnimotoBecky

Yes, we are aware of the issue. We are aiming to export the hi-res versions of vids in the future. But we'll let you know if anything else develops in this regarding. Keep the feedback coming, as I definitely pass it along to the TechGuys!

jasonstone wrote:

very very VERY thorough!! nice work!!

fingers crossed the smugmug heroes and animoto see this and have a pow-wow

Ham1

asozzi wrote:

I have the same issues, i.e the web version animoto creates is low but OK quality, the video automatically transferred to smugmug and viewed on smugums internal player is of even lower quality.

Since this problem is really evident with text I did a little comparison by taking screen shots of two different scenes in the full screen modus. Comparison
It is quite clear that the same scene on smugmug looks a lot more pixelated and watching the video you can actually see horizontal striping. Now the full screen mode exacerbates the issue but the same thing occurs in the original 604x480 format.

But then I downloaded the .mp4 file from Smugmug and played it in VLC and took the third set of screenshots. And they look very much like the original Animoto shots.

As a final comparison I re-uploaded both the Original Animoto and the Smugmug .mp4 files to YouTube. I have to say the results look somewhere between the original animoto file and the Smugmug Online. But even so the re-uploaded Animoto file was crisper.

I would have to say that the following quality levels are true:
1: Animoto direct is best
2: Download animoto and re-upload to Youtube
3: Download Smugmug File and re-upload to Youtube
4: Smugmug Online Viewer

Conclusion:
Smugmug transcoding is losing a lot of quality. Youtube does a better job it seems. For whatever reason the Smugmug .mp4 file is better quality than what is shown online (or the flash viewer is not as good).

Smugmug and Animoto need to have a heart to heart on how the file gets treated when sent directly.

This is nice and very well detailed.

I will check with our tech guys and dig into why this is happening. I am not sure yet if this is an Animoto or SmugMug issue.

Markham

AnimotoBecky

Just to follow-up, Markham sent this to us at Animoto, and we too are looking into the issue. Thanks again for the thorough report!

Ham1 wrote:

This is nice and very well detailed.

I will check with our tech guys and dig into why this is happening. I am not sure yet if this is an Animoto or SmugMug issue.

Markham

SamirD

asozzi wrote:

Since this problem is really evident with text I did a little comparison by taking screen shots of two different scenes in the full screen modus.

Excellent work!

asozzi

Ham1 wrote:

This is nice and very well detailed.

I will check with our tech guys and dig into why this is happening. I am not sure yet if this is an Animoto or SmugMug issue.

Markham

Thanks for picking this up so fast! That is exactly why I am using Smugmug and Animoto.
I hope this gets resolved as I LOVE the integration but can't stomach the (current) results. The low rez animoto video's are just viewable enough for many purposes but any little further loss in image quality is just hurting too much.

And Becky, I am aware of the 5$ higher resolution method, point taken. But for many purposes the lower resolution videos are "good enough". Especially if there is no loss in fidelity when moved to smugmug. (should save you some bandwidth too )
Looking forward to the resolution!

r9jackson

What to do until you find the final solution

AnimotoBecky wrote:

Just to follow-up, Markham sent this to us at Animoto, and we too are looking into the issue. Thanks again for the thorough report!

I've been following these threads and also want to post a reasonably large Animoto rendering on my homepage or at least a favorite gallery. I have the highest quality downloads as MP4's. Is there anything easy I can do now until you have the final solution?

SamirD

Has anyone re-tested this with the new hq option on the SM side?

I can't tell a difference so far on my low-res videos. The high-res ones have looked good in the past when downloaded/uploaded.