Help? I can't hold still . . .

GoofBckt

I just got a Macro, Canon 100mm 2.8 and I haven't been able to take ONE decent, clear shot of anything. :cry How the heck to ya get UP CLOSE and personal with a flower and focus, hold still enough to snap a good picture?? :scratch Thanks
Carrie

helloyo53

I have this problem, my hands are so shaky that it is pathetic. So I got into the habit of bringing a mini tripod if I'm going somewhere far, or just bring my regular tripod if it is just in my backyard or whatever. You could also try and lean up against something, that works for me too.

Elaine

I have that lens and really enjoy it, but it does take some work to get used to it. I would suggest shooting a manual exposure and keeping your shutter at least as fast as 1/100 or 1/125, and then set your aperture/ISO accordingly. F/2.8 may prove too shallow a depth of field as well (depending on the subject), so maybe start out with f/4. Then adjust your ISO to provide the correct exposure. Then, take a lot of shots!
I usually use auto focus, but sometimes, it works better to set the focus manually and then carefully move forward and back while looking through your viewfinder to land your focus point where you want before squeezing the shutter.
Good luck! Don't give up! It's a fun lens to shoot with!

PS - I noticed Ziggy helped you with your portrait shots. (Ziggy does rock!) Just as in those shots, the shutter speed may be the biggest culprit with your macros. One rule of thumb to consider is to keep your shutter speed at least as fast as 1/focal length. So, with the 100mm macro, that would mean staying faster than 1/100. Or if shooting the 70-200 at 200mm, keep your shutter faster than 1/200. Of course the IS on that lens enables you to shoot slower if your subject isn't wiggly, but the 100mm macro doesn't have IS (unless you have the newest one just released).

GoofBckt

Thank you for the feedback. I guess I'll have to start using my Gorilla pod when I want to use that lens. I tried leaning, but that didn't seem to help much either.

helloyo53 wrote:

I have this problem, my hands are so shaky that it is pathetic. So I got into the habit of bringing a mini tripod if I'm going somewhere far, or just bring my regular tripod if it is just in my backyard or whatever. You could also try and lean up against something, that works for me too.

GoofBckt

Hi, sorry gang, I didn't see Elaine's post there too. Elaine, thank you for the advice. I'll try these things. I was also thinking 2.8 would be a little short.

Elaine wrote:

I have that lens and really enjoy it, but it does take some work to get used to it. I would suggest shooting a manual exposure and keeping your shutter at least as fast as 1/100 or 1/125, and then set your aperture/ISO accordingly. F/2.8 may prove too shallow a depth of focus as well (depending on the subject), so maybe start out with f/4. Then adjust your ISO to provide the correct exposure. Then, take a lot of shots!
I usually use auto focus, but sometimes, it works better to set the focus manually and then carefully move forward and back while looking through your viewfinder to land your focus point where you want before squeezing the shutter.
Good luck! Don't give up! It's a fun lens to shoot with!

Elaine

GoofBckt wrote:

Hi, sorry gang, I didn't see Elaine's post there too. Elaine, thank you for the advice. I'll try these things. I was also thinking 2.8 would be a little short.

I added a PS to my post!

GoofBckt

Here I am again . . . Elaine, i don't have IS on either lens. But you're definitely right about the shutter speed. I use Av alot and I'm seriously thinking that Manual is the way to go. Thanks again so much.

Elaine wrote:

I have that lens and really enjoy it, but it does take some work to get used to it. I would suggest shooting a manual exposure and keeping your shutter at least as fast as 1/100 or 1/125, and then set your aperture/ISO accordingly. F/2.8 may prove too shallow a depth of field as well (depending on the subject), so maybe start out with f/4. Then adjust your ISO to provide the correct exposure. Then, take a lot of shots!
I usually use auto focus, but sometimes, it works better to set the focus manually and then carefully move forward and back while looking through your viewfinder to land your focus point where you want before squeezing the shutter.
Good luck! Don't give up! It's a fun lens to shoot with!

PS - I noticed Ziggy helped you with your portrait shots. (Ziggy does rock!) Just as in those shots, the shutter speed may be the biggest culprit with your macros. One rule of thumb to consider is to keep your shutter speed at least as fast as 1/focal length. So, with the 100mm macro, that would mean staying faster than 1/100. Or if shooting the 70-200 at 200mm, keep your shutter faster than 1/200. Of course the IS on that lens enables you to shoot slower if your subject isn't wiggly, but the 100mm macro doesn't have IS (unless you have the newest one just released).

Elaine

GoofBckt wrote:

Here I am again . . . Elaine, i don't have IS on either lens. But you're definitely right about the shutter speed. I use Av alot and I'm seriously thinking that Manual is the way to go. Thanks again so much.

I used AV for a long time, but a couple years ago I challenged myself to shoot manually for an entire week, and I've never gone back! Well, here and there I do, when I know that it would be beneficial, but shooting manual exposures has allowed a lot of improvement in my photos. Go for it!

GoofBckt

You know what, Elaine, someone else said the same thing in a thread I read yesterday. I'm going to try it. SCARY! lol I'll do anything to improve, that's for durn sure! You're awesome. :ivar

Elaine wrote:

I used AV for a long time, but a couple years ago I challenged myself to shoot manually for an entire week, and I've never gone back! Well, here and there I do, when I know that it would be beneficial, but shooting manual exposures has allowed a lot of improvement in my photos. Go for it!

CyberSteak

few things I've been taught when it comes to macro work.

- tripod
- manual focus
- self timer
- mirror lock

and if your lens has IS, turn it off while on a tri-pod (still don't understand this one, but IS on a tri-pod will mess with the focus).

GoofBckt

Wow, I had no idea Macro could be so tedious :P. Maybe Macro is not for me. Thanks for the tips, I'm not one to give up easily so I'll try anything if it will help. But . . . what is mirror lock?

CyberSteak wrote:

few things I've been taught when it comes to macro work.

- tripod
- manual focus
- self timer
- mirror lock

and if your lens has IS, turn it off while on a tri-pod (still don't understand this one, but IS on a tri-pod will mess with the focus).

GoofBckt

So . . . I took this one yesterday of dew on tiny little ground webs. How bad is it?
#1


#2 ..and this one of a cute little fuzzy flower where 90% of it is OOF.

GoofBckt wrote:

Wow, I had no idea Macro could be so tedious :P. Maybe Macro is not for me. Thanks for the tips, I'm not one to give up easily so I'll try anything if it will help. But . . . what is mirror lock?

CyberSteak

You're shooting with the Canon 40D?

<---same here.

http://photo.net/equipment/canon/40D/

Mirror Lock-Up

For maximum sharpness tripod photography at high magnifications, either with macro or telephoto lenses, the Canon 40D includes mirror lock-up capability. This is enabled via Custom Function III-7. Once enabled, a single press of the shutter release locks up the mirror. After the vibration of the mirror slam has subsided, a second press will take the picture. How can this reduce vibration and increase image sharpness if a clumsy human keeps touching the camera? It can't, unless you attach a remote release or use the self-timer. For landscape photography, put the camera on a tripod, set exposure and focus manually, enable mirror lockup, set the self-timer mode to 2 or 10 seconds, and press the shutter speed just once for each image. The mirror will lock up as soon as the shutter release is pressed. Two seconds later, the shutter will open and the picture get taken. Two seconds should be enough for the vibration of the mirror and the vibration of a finger on the shutter release to dissipate.
Mirror lock-up is most important at shutter speeds between 1 second and 1/30th of a second.
Some of Canon's film bodies had a mode in which mirror lock-up was enabled only with the self-timer. This was very useful for travel photography when the camera was on and off a tripod because it is so easy to switch in and out of self-timer mode (the "drive" button). The EOS 40D lacks this capability and switching in and out of mirror lock-up mode involves wading through a series of menus, unless you use up one of your three "custom function memories" on the mode dial.

</H2>
And no...don't give up.

Elaine

GoofBckt wrote:

So . . . I took this one yesterday of dew on tiny little ground webs. How bad is it?
#1


#2 ..and this one of a cute little fuzzy flower where 90% of it is OOF.

Could you share your EXIF?
I like your shots! I'm guessing the DOF was pretty shallow, especially on that flower. That's why it looks so soft....but I bet some tips of the flower parts are sharp.

Just as an example, here's one of my favorite macros...
Canon 40D
100 2.8 macro
f/5.6
1/500
ISO 400


As you can see, at f/5.6 the wings both near and far are blurred and there is really just a narrow area of the flower and the head/side of body that are in focus.

Macro shooting can be very detailed. There are some absolutely amazing macro artists around here that blow me away with their work! So far, I stick with stuff I can do hand held.

frons

I've rarely tried to photograph flowers, but subject movement could be an even bigger factor than your movement. Even with a tripod, wired release, mirror lockup/shutter delay, and f/11 or smaller, movement of your subject is so greatly magnified in macro that you'll never get a sharp photo if there is even the slightest breeze. Using wire or some other support to stabilize the stem could go a long way to keeping your subject still.

Edit: Just saw your posted photos. The web and flower look great, but as you can see, DOF is limited even with very small apertures. Focus stacking is one way to approach this. I find the OOF parts of the flower interesting, but you may have envisioned it differently.

GoofBckt

CyberSteak: Wow, thanks for that. I've never even heard of mirror lock. I learn so much here, it never ceases to amaze me. And I do use a 40D, but for these shots I just used my Rebel XS because I have small hands and it's so much lighter and easier for me to hold.

Elaine, thanks for the nice comment. I guess I'm so new to Macro that I'm not yet sure what I like or don't like. Such as Frons saying the flower blur was interesting and in my head, I'm looking for stark clarity when in macro "artistry", there are some blurred areas that make it interesting, like the wings in your shot. Love that one.

CyberSteak wrote:

You're shooting with the Canon 40D?

<---same here.

http://photo.net/equipment/canon/40D/





And no...don't give up.

GoofBckt

Elaine -
EXIF Flower: Canon Rebel XS
Shutter Priority
ISO 200
Aperture f/2.8
Exposure time 1/4000
Focal Length 100mm

EXIF dew drops:
Same as above

That doesn't sound right to me. I'm definitely switching to Manual all the way from now on! lol
Thanks for asking. This recent experience has been a real eye-opener.

Elaine wrote:

Could you share your EXIF?
I like your shots! I'm guessing the DOF was pretty shallow, especially on that flower. That's why it looks so soft....but I bet some tips of the flower parts are sharp.

Just as an example, here's one of my favorite macros...
Canon 40D
100 2.8 macro
f/5.6
1/500
ISO 400


As you can see, at f/5.6 the wings both near and far are blurred and there is really just a narrow area of the flower and the head/side of body that are in focus.

Macro shooting can be very detailed. There are some absolutely amazing macro artists around here that blow me away with their work! So far, I stick with stuff I can do hand held.

CyberSteak

GoofBckt wrote:

CyberSteak: Wow, thanks for that. I've never even heard of mirror lock. I learn so much here, it never ceases to amaze me. And I do use a 40D, but for these shots I just used my Rebel XS because I have small hands and it's so much lighter and easier for me to hold.

That's what the tri-pod's for. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >

<--Realized he's finally reached the point where he's learnt enough to start passing on a few morsells of knowledge.

GoofBckt

Haha! You're a funny guy. Yep, I kinda gathered that. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/mwink.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" > Gotta love dem morsels!

CyberSteak wrote:

That's what the tri-pod's for. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >

<--Realized he's finally reached the point where he's learnt enough to start passing on a few morsells of knowledge.

Elaine

GoofBckt wrote:

Elaine -
EXIF Flower: Canon Rebel XS
Shutter Priority
ISO 200
Aperture f/2.8
Exposure time 1/4000
Focal Length 100mm

EXIF dew drops:
Same as above

That doesn't sound right to me. I'm definitely switching to Manual all the way from now on! lol
Thanks for asking. This recent experience has been a real eye-opener.

I enjoy shooting shallow, but with macro, shallow can be f/9! It's a different mindset for me to grab hold of.

When shooting manually, in most situations, I tend to think about my aperture first, go for as low an ISO as possible and see where that puts my shutter speed for a good exposure. I check the histogram and expose to the right. If my shutter is too slow for the given situation or lens, I bump up the ISO. Then click away!
On the 40D, I set custom function IV:4 to 1:Reverse Direction. That allows me to scroll the dial on top to the left when I want to move the little meter marker in the viewfinder to the left and scroll to the right when I want to move it right. That was more intuitive for me.

craig_d

Is your problem camera shake or low DOF? Both are issues with hand-held macro work. I use a 100mm f/2.8 Tokina macro (basically equivalent to the Canon non-L 100mm macro, except you don't get USM and you pay 33% less) and I typically shoot flowers up close at f/8 to f/11 with ISO 400 or higher. And I repeat each shot a few times because I know they won't all come out sharp.

One trick that I use is NOT to half-press the shutter button to lock focus before releasing the shutter. I just press it all the way, and the camera shoots as soon as it (thinks it) has focus. This gives my body less time to shift slightly between the time focus locks and the moment the shutter is released.

Sometimes I use a tripod, but only if it's convenient to bring one.

Another thing you can do is take up some sort of body discipline such as certain forms of yoga (not the "workout yoga" that most Westerners mistake for yoga). There is a practice called Asana that consists of learning to sit or stand in various postures, absolutely still, for extended periods. This can greatly increase your physical stability and also your awareness of what your body is doing. The Oriental martial arts (particularly Tai Chi) are also useful for this. Western systems such as the Alexander Technique or the Feldenkrais Method may have similar results, but I don't have experience with them.

Lord Vetinari

Few additional points on natural light macro shooting.
I actually tend to try and keep the shutter speed up around 1/200th or higher for handheld shooting macro shooting. This is because on a crop camera you need to take into account the crop factor plus for macro the magnification actually makes things worse by a factor of 1+M where M is the magnification. Thus for shooting at min focus distance with the 100mm macro lens on a 1.6 crop camera the suggested shutter speed would be 1/(100*1.6*2) = 1/320th.
I actually shoot natural light normally in TV mode and just adjust ISo to get the aperture I want. I use M mode for flash shooting where typical settings would be 1/200th, F11, ISo 100 and the flash supplies the required light in ETTL mode. This actually renders the shutter speed irrelevant as the effective shutter speed is the flash duration.
I also tend to use a pole when I'm shooting macro. All I do is hold the pole at the correct shooting height with my left hand along with a bit of camera- this helps stabilise it without being overly cumbersome to setup.

Brian v.

GoofBckt

You guys are so awesome with all this advice. I really appreciate it. I went out today for more practice. I mostly just practiced on flowers. It was windy and CyberSteak, no, I didn't bring a tripod, just hand-held. I know, I'm stubborn. Here are a few from today. Are these any good in the macro realm?
#1 This is a lilly that hasn't opened all the way yet.


#2 Another lilly bud

#3 A bug and a bud


#4 A party in a lilly


#5 Cactus with a tiny resident. I didn't even know the spider was there till I opened the image.



#6 Inside of a miniature daisy

Lord Vetinari wrote:

Few additional points on natural light macro shooting.
I actually tend to try and keep the shutter speed up around 1/200th or higher for handheld shooting macro shooting. This is because on a crop camera you need to take into account the crop factor plus for macro the magnification actually makes things worse by a factor of 1+M where M is the magnification. Thus for shooting at min focus distance with the 100mm macro lens on a 1.6 crop camera the suggested shutter speed would be 1/(100*1.6*2) = 1/320th.
I actually shoot natural light normally in TV mode and just adjust ISo to get the aperture I want. I use M mode for flash shooting where typical settings would be 1/200th, F11, ISo 100 and the flash supplies the required light in ETTL mode. This actually renders the shutter speed irrelevant as the effective shutter speed is the flash duration.
I also tend to use a pole when I'm shooting macro. All I do is hold the pole at the correct shooting height with my left hand along with a bit of camera- this helps stabilise it without being overly cumbersome to setup.

Brian v.

Lord Vetinari

Looking good
Brian V.

CyberSteak

My only suggestion...

Too many hotspots. Bring a blanket or something to block out the sun.

Art Scott

GoofBckt wrote:

I just got a Macro, Canon 100mm 2.8 and I haven't been able to take ONE decent, clear shot of anything. :cry How the heck to ya get UP CLOSE and personal with a flower and focus, hold still enough to snap a good picture?? Thanks
Carrie

Personally....I use a tripod.....a giottos tripod that allows the center column to be removed and then replaced at nearly any angle I need.....for perfect focusing I use a macro focusing rail...specific model is the
ADORAMA MACRO FOCUSING RAIL......

this is a link to a similar tripod to what I use.....towards the bottom of the auction you'll see what I meant above.......

IPClark

I take my cue from Brian (LordV).

I shoot at around F8 to F11, shutter at 1/200.

I use my 430EX II with flash exposure compensation down a few stops. I also diffuse it. Currently with a StoFen but I keep on intending to build a diffuser like Brians. Just haven't got round to it.

I shoot hand held a lot of the time because quite simply by the time I've got the tripod in position, any bugs I may be trying to photograph have moved by then.

I do have a Manfrotto micro positioning plate for still stuff which makes life nice an easy.

With regards to the comment about never getting a sharp photo, I respectfully disagree with this. If your shutter and flash speeds are quick enough, you can freeze the action easily. I think the bigger problem is the shallow DoF macro produces (if you think regular 100mm is shallow, try it with extension tubes on. Dof is down to millimeters)

Still, I use the method of focus locking and moving forwards and backwards until the point I want to be sharp is in focus.

Remember the option of focus stacking to get the entire subject sharp and in focus. That is, taking multiple images through the focus range and stacking them using something like Zerene stacker or CombineZ.

Brian has an excellent tutorial on this.

GoofBckt

Thank you so much to everyone who replied. I love the wealth of information here. I will look at the tutorial and consider all other suggestions pointed out in this thread. You guys rock!

IPClark wrote:

I take my cue from Brian (LordV).

I shoot at around F8 to F11, shutter at 1/200.

I use my 430EX II with flash exposure compensation down a few stops. I also diffuse it. Currently with a StoFen but I keep on intending to build a diffuser like Brians. Just haven't got round to it.

I shoot hand held a lot of the time because quite simply by the time I've got the tripod in position, any bugs I may be trying to photograph have moved by then.

I do have a Manfrotto micro positioning plate for still stuff which makes life nice an easy.

With regards to the comment about never getting a sharp photo, I respectfully disagree with this. If your shutter and flash speeds are quick enough, you can freeze the action easily. I think the bigger problem is the shallow DoF macro produces (if you think regular 100mm is shallow, try it with extension tubes on. Dof is down to millimeters)

Still, I use the method of focus locking and moving forwards and backwards until the point I want to be sharp is in focus.

Remember the option of focus stacking to get the entire subject sharp and in focus. That is, taking multiple images through the focus range and stacking them using something like Zerene stacker or CombineZ.

Brian has an excellent tutorial on this.

GOLDENORFE

looks like you are getting the hang of it now,
just keep on practising
phil