Maybe yes, maybe no...

bdcolen

Okay - I've thought about ALL your comments. And I've decided - definitely Yes!:rofl :rofl However...with some serious dodging on the left, and burning on the top and right. With that done - Yes, I want the woman on the right just where and how she is - that's why I framed as I did...She provides a suggestion of a second 'layer' of patrons, separated from the counter folk. A crop from the bottom wouldn't be good - the table clothes definitely tell you something about the place. As does the t.v. But those of you who felt that I needed to separate the guy on the left by dodging were spot on. So...

Anyway - thanks - and always feel free to disagree. :clap :clap

Flyinggina

Ready for a little heresy?

I think this shot would be a lot more interesting in color.

:hide

Virginia

black mamba

I have to agree with Virginia. But then, I'm a known color freak. Aside from that, I'm not at all sure what the main subject is or what story is meant to be told. If your title is geared to solicit a vote....I'd say no to this one.

Tom

Tina Manley

The thing that bothers me is that it's all backs (or back ends!) and they are all so separate - but maybe that's the point.

Tina
www.tinamanley.com

bdcolen

Flyinggina wrote:

Ready for a little heresy?

I think this shot would be a lot more interesting in color.

:hide

Virginia

Not heresy at all.:D But I tried that, and the color is, well, ugly.

bdcolen

black mamba wrote:

I have to agree with Virginia. But then, I'm a known color freak. Aside from that, I'm not at all sure what the main subject is or what story is meant to be told. If your title is geared to solicit a vote....I'd say no to this one.

Tom

Well, I think there may be 2 subjects - isolation in a group, which always draws me, and obesity.
. But you may be right - it may not work.

bdcolen

Tina Manley wrote:

The thing that bothers me is that it's all backs (or back ends!) and they are all so separate - but maybe that's the point.

Tina
www.tinamanley.com

See my comment above, Tina. This one may be a swing and a miss.

ian408

I kinda like it. I see all backs, one open chair which seems symbolic in a way. The TV makes it seem somewhat 1984'ish except no one's paying attention.

Flyinggina

Ok, I trust you on the color.

I got the obesity theme, but it doesn't grab me enough to make we want to look further at the picture. I didn't really get the isolation in a group feel, even though it is obviously there.

One thing you might try, is to lighten up the blacks just a bit. I'd like to see a little more separation between the bottom of the fellow with the apron and the jacket of the fellow sitting at the bar (who doesn't look particularly obese, btw).

Also, I might find it a more interesting shot if you cropped out the guy on the left and the tables in the foreground. I like the face in the TV, the other two not looking at each other or at the TV and the empty chair turned sideways between them as though someone just left.

Virginia

sara505

I hate saying this - except that you did ask - but this one just doesn't do a thing to me.

bdcolen

sara505 wrote:

I hate saying this - except that you did ask - but this one just doesn't do a thing to me.

That's why I asked.. Please - and this goes for everyone: Don't hesitate to tell me that one of my efforts misses the mark; I'm no better an editor of my own stuff than you are of yours - just wait until I post my cell phone photos. I realize that there are some people who harbor the absurd belief that their
waste material doesn't stink. But I'm not one of them.

lizzard_nyc

I say no. For this particular shot I just need to see one face, too many backs--don't you always tell me to stop shooting from behind?

This shot had so much potential.

rutt

I think it needs a better caption and/or title.

damonff

I love it. The thing I like most about it is the chair that is in the middle of the shot that is turned toward the camera, kind of offering up the emptiness while the others shun it. It's gorgeous.

rainbow

This works for me more and more on repeat viewings.

What works: This is a "hole in the wall" diner. Probably has a lot of regulars that go there as part of their routine. Everyone is in their own little world. No conversation, just eat, drink coffee, ponder life's tough breaks, ...
Even the cook is in his own isolated world. And the TV guy is certainly unaware or uncaring...

So the turning of backs of everyone is what is thought-provoking. And how many of these red and white vinyl tablecloths frequent every similar small town diner? ...

thoth

rutt wrote:

I think it needs a better caption and/or title.

Richard

It has some things that I like, the empty chair and the TV that nobody is watching, but no cigar this time, I'm afraid. On my monitor, the two guys on the left are barely distinguishable from the stool and blend into a single mass. This works against the obesity idea. The good news is that a simple shadow/highlight adjustment in that area can bring out enough detail to fix it. OTOH, I don't think the partial, bright and blurry woman on the right adds anything and I don't see a good way to crop her out.

baldmountain

No. This is the kind of shot I get by accident when I fat finger the shutter release. Why or why did you leave half a woman in the shot on the right? Either crop her out or include all of her. Oh and half a bare fluorescent tube? I bet the color was gross. But the biggest issue is that there is nothing interesting in the shot. No pretty people, no expressions, no interesting background, nothing...

People think to themselves, "Hey, I'm channeling Lee Friedlander and I'm going to take a picture of everyday people in a dinner." But they aren't Lee Friedlander and they don't grok what he did at all. I know because I deluded myself in just that way here:



Yikes, that sounds harsh. But you should know better. I know you know better.

thoth

This is exactly the sort of response to a photo nobody seems to like that everyone in this forum should be getting. Why is it that the one man that likely needs pandered far less than any of us gets it the most?

Flyinggina

thoth wrote:

This is exactly the sort of response to a photo nobody seems to like that everyone in this forum should be getting. Why is it that the one man that likely needs pandered far less than any of us gets it the most?

Because he encouraged it and because he has offered it up as a teaching moment for all of us?

Virginia

thoth

Flyinggina wrote:

Because he encouraged it and because he has offered it up as a teaching moment for all of us?

Virginia

And that is unique? A B.D. dud teaches us no more than any other dud does it? Or, rather, a non-B.D. dud teaches us no [I[less[/I] than a B.D. dud does it?

lizzard_nyc

thoth wrote:

And that is unique? A B.D. dud teaches us no more than any other dud does it? Or, rather, a non-B.D. dud teaches us no [I[less[/i] than a B.D. dud does it?

Speaking for myself, I dont' usually like commenting on B.D.'s photos--I have my opinion of them, but dont' usually verbalize them, it makes me uncomfortable, especially if I don't like it, because who am I? I'm just starting out. I'm more comfortable c&c the rest of the group (hate to lump you all into one as there are different levels of photographers here) --but just more comfortable commenting on others--this I have to get over. B.D. gave me a nice push to comment on this shot and so I took it--and truth be known, it felt kind of
good:D .

I learn from all shots, the good the bad and the ugly--no matter who posts them--

bdcolen

lizzard_nyc wrote:

Speaking for myself, I dont' usually like commenting on B.D.'s photos--I have my opinion of them, but dont' usually verbalize them, it makes me uncomfortable, especially if I don't like it, because who am I? I'm just starting out. I'm more comfortable c&c the rest of the group (hate to lump you all into one as there are different levels of photographers here) --but just more comfortable commenting on others--this I have to get over. B.D. gave me a nice push to comment on this shot and so I took it--and truth be known, it felt kind of
good:D .

I learn from all shots, the good the bad and the ugly--no matter who posts them--

Good!

thoth

lizzard_nyc wrote:

I learn from all shots, the good the bad and the ugly--no matter who posts them--

That's my point. Everyone learns a little from every shot posted here. And every poster learns a little from every comment they receive. Even B.D. will learn a little from the very worst photographer around. I can understand a flood of posts responding to an amazing picture; we all like those. But a flood of posts responding to a mediocre photo due, in full, to the poster is far too obvious.

rutt

I agree with Travis. One of the things I'd like to distinguish Street & PJ is blunt honest critique.

michswiss

thoth wrote:

And that is unique? A B.D. dud teaches us no more than any other dud does it? Or, rather, a non-B.D. dud teaches us no [I[less[/I] than a B.D. dud does it?

There might be a lesson in this for us*. We should be giving the same level of exploration and comment to as many of the images we see here as we can. Good, bad or indifferent. I get a bit tired of posting images and get the one B.D. comment then everyone else stops. Ok an exaggeration, but there are many, many talented people here and I love getting your feedback too.

For me this image is a dud and ugly and for that reason I'd like to see the ugly colour as well. If it's meant to express the full nature of obesity then bring it on. Bad, dehumanising lighting could add to the story.

* I wouldn't put it past B.D. to have orchestrated this to get us to express our own voices.

Richard

thoth wrote:

This is exactly the sort of response to a photo nobody seems to like that everyone in this forum should be getting. Why is it that the one man that likely needs pandered far less than any of us gets it the most?

I think that on all forums, people who post many comments tend to receive many comments.

michswiss

Richard wrote:

I think that on all forums, people who post many comments tend to receive many comments.

How does someone comment on an image that almost certainly can never be recreated? What we capture is ephemeral.

Richard, I think in this case we are still finding our voice. Many of our images aren't pretty, nor are we trying to make them so. Many comments receiving many comments isn't fair, it's just that we aren't familiar with the language used to describe what does or doesn't work for the the types of images we are posting. I think this is where B.D. and other experienced "reality" photogs can help.

Not to say that the occasional "Great Shot!" comment isn't appreciated!

thoth

michswiss wrote:

There might be a lesson in this for us*. We should be giving the same level of exploration and comment to as many of the images we see here as we can. Good, bad or indifferent. I get a bit tired of posting images and get the one B.D. comment then everyone else stops. Ok an exaggeration, but there are many, many talented people here and I love getting your feedback too.

Agreed.

I don't post a ton because A) I don't like saying 'me too' and I still find myself struggling to provide what I feel is valuable feedback for many of the photos I see. However, I think I'll put those problems aside and try my hand at responding in more volume and hope that helps.

thoth

michswiss wrote:

How does someone comment on an image that almost certainly can never be recreated? What we capture is ephemeral.

Richard, I think in this case we are still finding our voice. Many of our images aren't pretty, nor are we trying to make them so. Many comments receiving many comments isn't fair, it's just that we aren't familiar with the language used to describe what does or doesn't work for the the types of images we are posting. I think this is where B.D. and other experienced "reality" photogs can help.

Not to say that the occasional "Great Shot!" comment isn't appreciated!

I tried to respond to Richard's comment and just couldn't find the right words. I think you did so nicely, Jennifer.

Richard

Personally, I learn as much by reading comments on other people's pics as on my own. In some ways it's easier since ego doesn't get in the way. That is especially true when a pic evokes little or no reaction at all. Of course, a serious critique is much more valuable than no response, but I'm in this for the long haul, so if I don't learn a lot today, hopefully I will learn more tomorrow.