Question for the PJ forum, night shooting.

lizzard_nyc

I've gone back on forth on purchasing a flash--the FL36--but as you know already, there are tons of things I want to purchase and this just keeps getting lower on my list.

The holidays are around the corner and we have tons of people coming over---last count 29 for Thanksgiving:D . I want some documentary style shots, and very very few posed shots for this. Also since the sun goes down earlier these days I will be doing some street shooting in the dark, semi dark.

My kit lenses are pretty bad in low light (could be that I just dont' know what I'm doing yet--I shoot in shutter speed mode and aperture mode) and I can kick up the ISO to 1600 but still the shots are too dark.

Would you recommend I get the flash? Can't wrap my head around shooting with a flash for intimate family gatherings (yes 29 is intimate to me)--seems like such an annoyance--Also for street shots, I want to go as undetected as possible, and well flash just seems so wrong. My only other option is to shoot with my lensbaby which is very fast and great in low light--but the keeper ratio is maybe 1 out of 20 as it's easy to blurr the entire shot.

What to do--what do you guys do?
Our house is dimly lit--we don't have any bright lighting at all for the gatherings. It's very comfortable and almost nurturing, but bright, it is not.

baldmountain

Oooo, get the flash but learn to shoot off camera flash. Get a synch cable or wireless trigger. A flash is the one item I REALLY want but can't afford. (My wife thinks paying the mortgage and buying food is more important than a camera gear. )

Tina Manley

I don't ever use flash. Not just because I don't like the way flash looks, but because I'm trying my best to be invisible and nothing draws attention to the photographer more than a flash going off!! Way back in the days of film, I used TMax 400 pushed to 800 and, with Leica fast lenses, could take photos in the dark without attracting attention to myself. Now I'm still using those same fast lenses with digital. Rather than spending money on a flash, I'd save up for a faster lens and stay invisible!!

Tina
www.tinamanley.com

JimW

My two cents:
- Keep doing what you’re doing. Just keeping working it.
- Put the lens baby away for a while and that contrast treatment too.
- Don’t get a flash and expect to learn it in time for Tgiving. You probably won’t love the results.
- Turn up the ISO. Open up the aperture. Get the shot. Worry about how to remove noise etc later.
- Capture expressions. Shoot a lot.

Richard

Family gatherings indoors and shooting on the street at night are two very different things. I would suggest that for family it is a good idea, but it's pretty hard to be inconspicuous on the street with flash. I have used it to shoot night-time events but have never tried to use it for street candids. My guess is that you would only get one shot at it .

lizzard_nyc

ok, so from reading the above posts, I got the following...
No flash for street--which of course makes perfect sense.
This might mean I have to go manual! Guess I better start practicing.

I won't use the lensbaby, I was just saying it because it's my only fast lens.

I don't really know why I mentioned the FL36 since I can't really buy it right now anyway--just wondering if I will need it for documentary style family shots in low light conditions.

I will take some photos in the next couple of days with my kit lenses in low light with the exif info--maybe you guys can help me tweak them or tell me what settings to change--that would be great.

For the family shots--what about using my on camera flash (gulp) in 1/4 output? I'll try some of those too and you can hopefully help me.

Thanks for the tips...
I just can't imagine the winter months without much daylight and decreased shooting---that would be a huge bummer and I think it's stressing me out since I want to keep shooting and my low light shots suck!

Richard

lizzard_nyc wrote:

For the family shots--what about using my on camera flash (gulp) in 1/4 output? I'll try some of those too and you can hopefully help me.

Well, you could try, but generally speaking built-in flash wrecks photos. If you do indoors shooting with any regularity, you want to use a swivel/bounce flash at a minimum, so you can diffuse the light off a wall or ceiling. If you can get it off camera with remote triggers, that's even better. I seem to recall seeing ads for diffusers that attach to built-in flashes. This might be worth pursuing, but I have no idea of what's available for Olympus or how well these might work.

bdcolen

lizzard_nyc wrote:

ok, so from reading the above posts, I got the following...
No flash for street--which of course makes perfect sense.
This might mean I have to go manual! Guess I better start practicing.

I won't use the lensbaby, I was just saying it because it's my only fast lens.

I don't really know why I mentioned the FL36 since I can't really buy it right now anyway--just wondering if I will need it for documentary style family shots in low light conditions.

I will take some photos in the next couple of days with my kit lenses in low light with the exif info--maybe you guys can help me tweak them or tell me what settings to change--that would be great.

For the family shots--what about using my on camera flash (gulp) in 1/4 output? I'll try some of those too and you can hopefully help me.

Thanks for the tips...
I just can't imagine the winter months without much daylight and decreased shooting---that would be a huge bummer and I think it's stressing me out since I want to keep shooting and my low light shots suck!

So...get some 160, 200, 250 watt bulbs and put them in some of the lamps when the family comes. Seriously. And another low cost solution to your problem is to go to Home Depot - or your neighborhood hardware store - and pick up a couple of shop clamp flood lights. Get a couple flood light bulbs, clamp the floods where they'll give you bounce light off a wall or ceiling, and away you go!
And forget the flash on the street.

michswiss

I'm not familiar with your system, but I would get a 50mm and/or a wide fast prime. It will open up new opportunities in dimly lit interiors as well as night shooting. I do almost everything these days with my 20/2.8 or 50/1.4.

I have a flash but I've only rarely used it, and then mainly as off camera for some experimental work. My image of the lifeguard stand was done using it. But for night time street and indoor stuff, pump the iso, go manual and work on hand stabilising techniques.

lizzard_nyc

bdcolen wrote:

So...get some 160, 200, 250 watt bulbs and put them in some of the lamps when the family comes. Seriously. And another low cost solution to your problem is to go to Home Depot - or your neighborhood hardware store - and pick up a couple of shop clamp flood lights. Get a couple flood light bulbs, clamp the floods where they'll give you bounce light off a wall or ceiling, and away you go!
And forget the flash on the street.

Will change out a couple of the bulbs. The weird little lamps are always on dim. There is just a general consensus to keep things dim, and everyone likes/wants the intimate setting, makes for a fun party. Parties here are a down to a science, a nice amount of people, dim light, great music, and lots of wine and food---can't throw off the equation too much, or they will have my head.
But I will up the watts some on the lamps, will see if that works.

lizzard_nyc

michswiss wrote:

I'm not familiar with your system, but I would get a 50mm and/or a wide fast prime. It will open up new opportunities in dimly lit interiors as well as night shooting. I do almost everything these days with my 20/2.8 or 50/1.4.

I have a flash but I've only rarely used it, and then mainly as off camera for some experimental work. My image of the lifeguard stand was done using it. But for night time street and indoor stuff, pump the iso, go manual and work on hand stabilising techniques.

You are right in that a nicer piece of glass would help of course, I might rent one actually, just thought of that, and I'll look into your recommendations. Maybe i will fall in love with my first fast prime and add that to my wish list.

Thanks.

michswiss

lizzard_nyc wrote:

You are right in that a nicer piece of glass would help of course, I might rent one actually, just thought of that, and I'll look into your recommendations. Maybe i will fall in love with my first fast prime and add that to my wish list.

Thanks.

My two primes were around $300 each, less than the flash I bought. I'm fairly sure better deals can be had and I am positive you will love them.

lizzard_nyc

michswiss wrote:

My two primes were around $300 each, less than the flash I bought. I'm fairly sure better deals can be had and I am positive you will love them.

See it's posts such as yours that make me want to say "to hell with my new desktop, I want to spend my money on good lenses instead."

baldmountain

Check out a book like Joe McNally's "Hot Shoe Diaries" A flash can open up a lot of creative opportunities. Especially with subjects who are willing to be posed.

I also like bd's idea of placing 150 and 200 watt bulbs or using a shop lamp from Lowes. (I have two shop lamps with tracing paper diffusers. )

esc2476

Good ideas all around. I like the idea of purchasing a fast prime 50mm lens if you can. They are relatively inexpensive and you will always have it for future use.

As someone else mentioned, you can always rent.

bdcolen

lizzard_nyc wrote:

You are right in that a nicer piece of glass would help of course, I might rent one actually, just thought of that, and I'll look into your recommendations. Maybe i will fall in love with my first fast prime and add that to my wish list.

Thanks.

Knowing that you're an Oly Gurl - check out the Sigma 30 1.4 - relatively cheap, it'll give you a 60 mm, which is a bit long but not too bad, and it's a reasonably good lens. The other thing to consider is the Olympus 50 f 2 macro- it'll be a 100 for you, but that is a good portrait lens. It's a really terrific piece of glass, if a bit slow focusing. Look on Ebay and you may find one used.

Wil Davis

The larger flood-light tungsten lamps will tend to get rather hot, and have a (relatively) short life.

B. D.'s advice about the Home-Boy Despot shop lamp clamps is good; I have some and instead of the floods (which get very hot), I use the Compact-Fluorescent (CF) n:vision (daylight) 100W equivalent; they consume ~27W; they stay fairly cool and give out about 1400 lumens, and have a lifetime of ~10,000hrs. Their colour temp is 5500ºK and they take around 5 mins to warm up. I use them all the time with my light-tent. The CFs are available in the larger sizes (200, 250, 500W) but they're more expensive and are physically larger. Here's a picture of the larger sizes (68W ?) from the techno-fandom site:

HTH -
- Wil