So what am I doing wrong?

BBones

Ok, looking through Maczippy's latest MotoGP shots there is a massive difference between the look of them and mine. I have to figure post prod has something to do with it due to me hitting very nearly the same onboard camera settings.

But why do mine look so "bad" in comparison?







Thanks in advance,

JamesJWeg

How about the EXIF's? Looks to me like some of my shots where I got a little too slow on the shutter speed causing them to look a little soft. But I am fairly new to race photography so I may not be your best source of info.

James.

BBones

I always shoot between 1/160th and up to/no more then 1/320th.

F5.6-F8 also

Manual mode using the 70-200 IS L 2.8 Canon Lens Stage 2 for panning, no IS for head on's, auto focus

JamesJWeg wrote:

How about the EXIF's? Looks to me like some of my shots where I got a little too slow on the shutter speed causing them to look a little soft. But I am fairly new to race photography so I may not be your best source of info.

James.

BBones

Is there THAT dramatic of a difference between the 20d and the 1dMK2?

JamesJWeg

BBones wrote:

I always shoot between 1/160th and up to/no more then 1/320th.

F5.6-F8 also

Manual mode using the 70-200 IS L 2.8 Canon Lens Stage 2 for panning, no IS for head on's, auto focus

You are in the same shutter speed rang I was in. I went a little faster and could still keep the motion but get a crisper shot.

James.

BBones

Any faster of a shutter speed and I lose the wheels spinning. Plus I have read Maczippy's posts of what speed he is shooting at as well as reading the EXIF infor for Tim Huntington's shots. I should be able to hit those numbers.

JamesJWeg

BBones wrote:

Any faster of a shutter speed and I lose the wheels spinning. Plus I have read Maczippy's posts of what speed he is shooting at as well as reading the EXIF infor for Tim Huntington's shots. I should be able to hit those numbers.

Dunno, maybe we are not as steady? Maybe it is something else. I have noticed a marked decline in my image quality towards the end of the day. I think I am shaking the camera because my arms are tired by then.

James.

BBones

actually the sharpness is not what I am seeing as a major issue, minor perhaps. But where are all of the colors and such that I am seeing in Maczippy's shots versus mine? His smack me in the face with detail and color. Mine look muddy even though they are sharp.

JamesJWeg

How is this? More like what you want? All I did was reseting black and white points, someone who really knows PS could do a LOT better. Maybe it is all post that you are looking for.



James.

BBones

Actually, yeah that is a lot more along the lines what I am looking for, what did you tell it to be white? I usually go off the ARAI logo

JamesJWeg wrote:

How is this? More like what you want? All I did was reseting black and white points, someone who really knows PS could do a LOT better. Maybe it is all post that you are looking for.



James.

JamesJWeg

BBones wrote:

Actually, yeah that is a lot more along the lines what I am looking for, what did you tell it to be white? I usually go off the ARAI logo

I went off one of the checkers on the helmet, I found out some time back the the Arai logo isn't a good point, I found that one out with karts. I think it must be a little off. the black point made a bigger differance, underside of the rear tire.

James.

BBones

Thanks a lot! Hopefully that makes more of a difference, I know I am getting better, but I also know I am no MacZippy.


Anyone else chime in?

mercphoto

BBones wrote:

Thanks a lot! Hopefully that makes more of a difference, I know I am getting better, but I also know I am no MacZippy.

Anyone else chime in?

Your composition and technique is very good. I suspect your arms getting tired at the end of the day has something to do with the softness. The color issue I saw as well, and is probably just a matter of work with white balance and/or levels. Also, I'm wondering if your choice of f/5.6 to f/8 is maybe a bit shallow on the DOF. Motorcycles aren't huge like cars, but they aren't tiny either.

I found that Auto-Levels can work surprisingly well for outdoor sports and make colors nicer. The only issue I see is that sometimes it removes the blue from the sky. I also have a set of actions from Noel Carboni that has a "more vivid colors" action. It works really well, and the nice thing is it's "automatic". I don't have time to work each photo individually. Wish I did.

BBones

WHere did you get that from? The more vivid colors download.

mercphoto

BBones wrote:

WHere did you get that from? The more vivid colors download.

http://actions.home.att.net/index.html

mercphoto

mercphoto wrote:

http://actions.home.att.net/index.html

In particular, you want the "dSLR Tools" action set he has for sale (rather inexpensivly). You get the More Vivid Colors action, plus a lot more. Exposure plus or minus, in half-steps, that work well even with JPG's. Actions to remove certain types of common color casts. Noise reduction at three levels. A few actions to improve shadow detail. Local contrast enhancement. And they can work on the background layer, or can create a new layer with the results, or can work only on a pre-selected part of the image. Rather nice and useful.

gsgary

I like no2 backing in , Maczippy told me he does not do post work if he can help it, I'm going to practice at Donnington British motogp to have a go my camera is not upto it really but who cares, next year when i get better i will treat myself to a EOS 20D

Gaz

gus

mercphoto wrote:

I found that Auto-Levels can work surprisingly well for outdoor sports and make colors nicer. .

Bill, what auto- levels are you mentioning ? Saturation settings in the camera itself ?

Tks Gus

mercphoto

Humungus wrote:

Bill, what auto- levels are you mentioning ? Saturation settings in the camera itself ?

Auto-levels in Photoshop. In-camera I use Parameters-1 on my 20D, which is a +1 boost in saturation, contrast and sharpness. Then in Photoshop I auto-level (though I think I prefer Noel's more vivid color action better), then a sharpening via a high-pass filter. That's it.

About my only gripe about auto-levels is it can tend to remove a nice blue from the sky and make it dull. But for photos that start out well exposed and with well behaved histograms, as my outdoor sports photos are, its an easy way to add punch to the colors.

gus

mercphoto wrote:

Auto-levels in Photoshop. In-camera I use Parameters-1 on my 20D, which is a +1 boost in saturation, contrast and sharpness. Then in Photoshop I auto-level (though I think I prefer Noel's more vivid color action better), then a sharpening via a high-pass filter. That's it.

About my only gripe about auto-levels is it can tend to remove a nice blue from the sky and make it dull. But for photos that start out well exposed and with well behaved histograms, as my outdoor sports photos are, its an easy way to add punch to the colors.

Bill the parameters wouldnt apply to RAW settings though i assume from a poor google search. Is that correct ?

Gus

mercphoto

Humungus wrote:

Bill the parameters wouldnt apply to RAW settings though i assume from a poor google search. Is that correct ?

The answer depends entirely upon which converter you are using. If you are using Canon's converter, then it will default to the parameters used in-camera (but you can over-ride them manually during conversion). If you are using anyone else's converter, then the in-camera settings do not apply.

gus

mercphoto wrote:

The answer depends entirely upon which converter you are using. If you are using Canon's converter, then it will default to the parameters used in-camera (but you can over-ride them manually during conversion). If you are using anyone else's converter, then the in-camera settings do not apply.

ok ta bill...the fog is lifting. Im using CS2.

mercphoto

Humungus wrote:

ok ta bill...the fog is lifting. Im using CS2.

I've only shot races in RAW seldom, but I did shoot part of a race in RAW+JPG once, to get a feel for what I'd have to do in the raw flow to match or exceed my JPG results. (Bear in mind, part of the requirement is that my raw flow be automated. Yes you can manually manipulate a raw and get better results. But I refuse to manually manipulate that many photos per race). And I did find that with Photoshop I could do more-or-less a straight conversion of the RAW file, then either auto-levels or use Noel's more vivid color action, then do a high-pass filter for sharpening, and things turned out nearly identical.

gus

Ok...i was starting to wonder if you were talking Jpeg. I will shoot RAW for this race i have this week-end as ive never had a media pass & its our fastest most popular car race in 0z (excluding the GP in melb) I will hopefully have some stuff to temp some magazines & with low skills, RAW will give me more room to move on the shots.

This is going to be a baptism of fire with my 400mm f/5.6

Thanks for your help here...its been much appreciated mate.

Gus

maczippy

Good luck btw.

I shoot every event in RAW. To answer Bones I think there is a difference in image quality from the 20D and MK2, even if the sensor is identical, it wouldn't make sense for Canon to make a 20D do everything that a MK2 could do otherwise people wouldn't buy the MK2.

For me the post processing is part of what I do differently and has evolved through shooting various subjects (primarily horses) and as such if I told you *exactly* what I do I'd have to kill you. It's not a secret, it's just a question of working and increasing your familiarity with tools at your disposal until you find what works for you. I never shoot to make anyone else happy but myself, but the trick to marketing your work is to be different, and the way I handle my images (I feel) I offer something different.

I use the same adage when I go shoot at race tracks. I always ask other shooters where are they going, and most have their whole shooting plan down to a fine art, so they tell me, and I then go where they're not......

The ultimate is to develop your own style, and it will happen, becuase if we all shot the same way and tried to replicate each other then it wouldn't be fun anymore...

Just remember to not be afraid to take chances and try different things. What I find so saddening in most media centres I have been in lately is that another photog will see a shot that you've taken, ask you where you shot it, and then go and try to get the same shot. That to me is very disappointing.

Good luck Hu!!! BB, keep at it, you're getting it down! Merc, excellent advice as always.....!!

Andrew

ian408

When I see two moto shots, I know whether you or Andrew shot them. IMHO,
that's a good thing.

Ian

JamesJWeg

I found out how important personal style is by suprise. When I first did karts, I made the mistake of doing what everyone else did, but then I also shot ones that felt like what I wanted for myself, not expecting any interest. To my suprise the next time I showed up at a karting event I was bombared with requests, and ALL of them were for the ones that I put my heart into, many people comented that they had never seen my style of perspective before, that was when I realized that you have to shoot what you are comforatable with, it's cool to pick up technical tips from others, but use your own style.

James.

galaxycowpoke

BBones wrote:

Actually, yeah that is a lot more along the lines what I am looking for, what did you tell it to be white? I usually go off the ARAI logo

BBones, here's a surefire way to find your best white points. Go to Image Adjustment > Threshold, then move slider to the right to see where the lightest part of the image lies. Avoid specular highlights (mirror-like reflections).

I learned this at a recent seminar. I'm comfortable with my camera work at this point but started shooting digital in 2005 and have been climbing a massively steep learning curve this year (hence the seminar and loaded bookshelves).

After some experimenting, I decided to shoot RAW because it gives me the flexibility and freedom to create the images that I'm personally satisfied with. Maczippy's advice to create our own work is sound from both an artistic and marketing perspective.

I like to engage powerful works by Andrew et.al. and, yes, borrow here and there but with the goal of building on those excellent works to create something entirely new. Shooting RAW provides me with a more flexible medium with which to express this creativity and, as such, is worth the extra time, effort, and pain. I have an idea of where I want to be with my RAW workflow, but I'm a long way from it.

Anyway, try that Threshold trick. I think you'll like it.

Andy

maczippy wrote:

Good luck btw.

I shoot every event in RAW. To answer Bones I think there is a difference in image quality from the 20D and MK2, even if the sensor is identical, it wouldn't make sense for Canon to make a 20D do everything that a MK2 could do otherwise people wouldn't buy the MK2.

For me the post processing is part of what I do differently and has evolved through shooting various subjects (primarily horses) and as such if I told you *exactly* what I do I'd have to kill you. It's not a secret, it's just a question of working and increasing your familiarity with tools at your disposal until you find what works for you. I never shoot to make anyone else happy but myself, but the trick to marketing your work is to be different, and the way I handle my images (I feel) I offer something different.

I use the same adage when I go shoot at race tracks. I always ask other shooters where are they going, and most have their whole shooting plan down to a fine art, so they tell me, and I then go where they're not......

The ultimate is to develop your own style, and it will happen, becuase if we all shot the same way and tried to replicate each other then it wouldn't be fun anymore...

Just remember to not be afraid to take chances and try different things. What I find so saddening in most media centres I have been in lately is that another photog will see a shot that you've taken, ask you where you shot it, and then go and try to get the same shot. That to me is very disappointing.

Good luck Hu!!! BB, keep at it, you're getting it down! Merc, excellent advice as always.....!!

Andrew

Andrew: This is one of the finer posts made on Dgrin of late.

Can I bottle this into a sports (kart, motorcycle racing) tutorial/info piece for dgrin.smugmug.com ?? Of course there'll be accredation to you and your website.

Se7enUK

I may try shooting in Raw next year, but we shall see.

maczippy

Andy wrote:

Andrew: This is one of the finer posts made on Dgrin of late.

Can I bottle this into a sports (kart, motorcycle racing) tutorial/info piece for dgrin.smugmug.com ?? Of course there'll be accredation to you and your website.

I'd be honoured....!

I'm trying to poke my nose in more here and offer help as time allows!

Andrew