Remembrance Day

Patti

Not sure this quite qualifies for this forum. Taken at Remembrance Day services here in London yesterday. Although not generally a selective colour fan, I thought it was worth a go with this shot, given the occassion. I also tried out a CS4 B&W conversion technique a friend suggested :thumb . Opinions?


Remembering...

rutt

Very nice, but just say no to selective color.

thoth

rutt wrote:

Very nice, but just say no to selective color.

It is a nice photo and certainly belongs here, Patti. It looks as though it could use a contrast to me, though.

Patti

rutt wrote:

Very nice, but just say no to selective color.

. The Nancy Regan of PJ!

Flyinggina

The photograph makes me want to know more about this man, why he is standing there and what he is remembering.

Of course, I know something about the context, but I like to look at a photo like this as though it had no title and I had no information about it except what I can see.

This definitely works for me. The look on his face says so much.

Virginia

GSPeP

Nice picture

11 November is the official end of World War One. It's an official holiday here in Belgium and in France. (I didn't have to go to work yesterday )
The red poppy is symbolic for the remembrance of WWI due to the famous poem "In Flanders fields" (Lieutenant kolonel John McCrae, 1872-1918)

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

Did you know that WWI, although it ended more than 90 years ago, is still making victims today! Every year farmers in the area around Ypres and in the north of France get killed or wounded by munitions from WWI.

It was just in the news: the youngest casualty in Belgium from WWI is 26 years old. When she was 8, a WWI bomb exploded under a camp fire when she was attending a girlscout meeting. She spent 2 years in hospital before she was more or less OK.

sara505

GSPeP wrote:

Nice picture

11 November is the official end of World War One. It's an official holiday here in Belgium and in France. (I didn't have to go to work yesterday )
The red poppy is symbolic for the remembrance of WWI due to the famous poem "In Flanders fields" (Lieutenant kolonel John McCrae, 1872-1918)

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

Did you know that WWI, although it ended more than 90 years ago, is still making victims today! Every year farmers in the area around Ypres and in the north of France get killed or wounded by munitions from WWI.

It was just in the news: the youngest casualty in Belgium from WWI is 26 years old. When she was 8, a WWI bomb exploded under a camp fire when she was attending a girlscout meeting. She spent 2 years in hospital before she was more or less OK.

I remember veterans selling little red paper poppies on the street, here in the US.

rutt

If the red poppy is so important to the context of this shot, what about a color treatment?

BTW, I also saw your thread in Other Cool Shots. I think this is a perfect thread for this forum as well. And, in fact, I love how this shot works as part of that series.

But I still hate the selective color. I hate (or maybe I love) to be a broken record on this topic, but this technique worked exactly once: in Schindler's List, when it was fresh. But ever since it's been just a gimmick and can make even a potentially great picture look like the work of an amateur trying way too hard. In this particular case, what are you trying to achieve with selective color? I think you want to show that he is wearing a poppy for Remembrance Day. I think you want us to think of Flanders Field. That's a fine goal. But in selective color, what we think is, "oh, selective color. We are supposed to see that red flower. What could that mean? Well, the picture is titled Remembrance Day so it's a poppy. Oh, and that guy, could he be old enough to be a WWI vet?..." The flower and the dialog to decode it dominates the viewer's experience, ending with the question of whether the gimmick actually worked. Is that the experience you want?

Without the gimmick, this is a really nice portrait. I love the composition, the way his cap works with his hand. The beautiful bokah really works. (Now there is a way to focus attention!) The man's thoughtful look. I even like how the glasses interact with his eyes, something that's often problematic.

So, what to do? I suspect you are using selective color here because you can't decide between your very nice B&W conversion and showing that red poppy. Sorry, you have to decide. The picture is strong enough to stand without the red flower, and IMHO (sorry B.D.) the caption works just find to give whatever context we need. In the context of the series, it's even better. It works as the punchline, we have the title and the other shots as context.

Or you can try a color version. Flowers are saturated in a way that almost nothing else is. It will stand out plenty with no work at all on your part. In fact, you may have to desaturate it a bit to make it look right (in general that's the trick for flowers.)

Sorry for the flame. You are in good company. Yuri was the recipient of a nearly identical flame once. You only have to do an advanced search for posts by Rutt with the phrase "selective color" to find out how much of a crank I am on the topic.

Patti

rutt wrote:

If the red poppy is so important to the context of this shot, what about a color treatment?

BTW, I also saw your thread in Other Cool Shots. I think this is a perfect thread for this forum as well. And, in fact, I love how this shot works as part of that series.

But I still hate the selective color. I hate (or maybe I love) to be a broken record on this topic, but this technique worked exactly once: in Schindler's List, when it was fresh. But ever since it's been just a gimmick and can make even a potentially great picture look like the work of an amateur trying way too hard. In this particular case, what are you trying to achieve with selective color? I think you want to show that he is wearing a poppy for Remembrance Day. I think you want us to think of Flanders Field. That's a fine goal. But in selective color, what we think is, "oh, selective color. We are supposed to see that red flower. What could that mean? Well, the picture is titled Remembrance Day so it's a poppy. Oh, and that guy, could he be old enough to be a WWI vet?..." The flower and the dialog to decode it dominates the viewer's experience, ending with the question of whether the gimmick actually worked. Is that the experience you want?

Without the gimmick, this is a really nice portrait. I love the composition, the way his cap works with his hand. The beautiful bokah really works. (Now there is a way to focus attention!) The man's thoughtful look. I even like how the glasses interact with his eyes, something that's often problematic.

So, what to do? I suspect you are using selective color here because you can't decide between your very nice B&W conversion and showing that red poppy. Sorry, you have to decide. The picture is strong enough to stand without the red flower, and IMHO (sorry B.D.) the caption works just find to give whatever context we need. In the context of the series, it's even better. It works as the punchline, we have the title and the other shots as context.

Or you can try a color version. Flowers are saturated in a way that almost nothing else is. It will stand out plenty with no work at all on your part. In fact, you may have to desaturate it a bit to make it look right (in general that's the trick for flowers.)

Sorry for the flame. You are in good company. Yuri was the recipient of a nearly identical flame once. You only have to do an advanced search for posts by Rutt with the phrase "selective color" to find out how much of a crank I am on the topic.

Absolutely no offense taken. As I say, I'm not a big selective colour fan but think it can work sometimes. I posted the original colour versions for comparison. I have the B&W version at home and will post it this evening.

I also wondered whether the back of the gentleman on the right was a distraction or if cropping him out may not leave enough space in the direction of the subject's gaze.

sara505

Patti wrote:

Absolutely no offense taken. As I say, I'm not a big selective colour fan but think it can work sometimes. I posted the original colour versions for comparison. I have the B&W version at home and will post it this evening.

I also wondered whether the back of the gentleman on the right was a distraction or if cropping him out may not leave enough space in the direction of the subject's gaze.

I think I like this better in color. The reds naturally stand out. Unfortunately, the orange is now a distraction.

rutt

Lose the blue cast and it's more competitive with the B&W:



Perhaps color balance on the white in his hat or the gray in his hair? The gray hair is pretty much guaranteed to be neutral.

And you can easily take down the saturation of the orange background a touch.

I thought of a square crop for this. Give it a try, why not?

Flyinggina

The guy in front doesn't distract. He just gives context - the subject is standing with others.

It was a pleasant surprise to see the red in the hat to go with the poppy. For me that makes the color version the winner.

The orange doesn't bother me but I think Rutt's idea of a bit of desat is a good one.

Virginia

Patti

Here you go with the original crop, WB adjusted and the orange desatted

Patti

And here's the series I posted in the "other cool shots' forum and got exactly one comment. I didn't post here because I thought they were more street portraits than street/PJ

rutt

Super series, especially:



Love that color!

Patti

rutt wrote:

Super series, especially:



Love that color!

Thanks Rutt. I toned down the colour in the bokeh after the feedback on the photo of the veteran. The colour was gloriously intense but I thought probably distracted from the young air cadet.