Toroweap

Tango

Sunrise @ Toroweap...
I seriously dont understand how you people knockout so much photography... it takes me months to complete one image....

Need some cut & dry C&C
May I have your first impressions?
and second & third too?

anwmn1

Okay here goes:

1. Your slow- wasn't this like months ago?
2. I hate you! and my Jeep for breaking down on me.
3. hmmm.......



Seriously though-

This is a very strong image and you are going to get some mad props for it.

I will be the bad guy though and point out little nit picks that you can roll your eyes or toss out.

1. For me the biggest nit pick is actually the upper third of the image. The flare is great, the blue in the sky is sweet, and the depth of vistas is great. However all together it bothers me a little bit. Starting with the cliff edge on the right you have 6 separate horizontal lines which break the photo up. The eye kind of gets lost there and the large gray cloud is a natural break which makes it difficult for your eyes to naturally lead to the sweet blue above. This is not a technical issue at all as the top third as parts are done very well. It is more an artistic and natural flow that is missing.

2. Another artsy natural eye dead zone is actually the center of the image. Other than the blue sky at the top every other subject has leading lines moving your eyes to the center of the image. The cliff face on the left leads you directly to the river. The river leads you up and down from the sun flare to the rock ledge at the bottom. The flare and the rock ledge at the bottom both have protruding elements which lead to almost dead center in the image.... but there is nothing there.

I know this is not the normal type of feedback and some may not agree or even get it- but for me leading lines and natural eye movement are huge part of a piece of art. And that my friend is what you are trying to create.


On the normal feedback stuff the only nit picks are that I wish this thing has uber detail throughout the image. The sharpest points seem to be the right bottom third and the top portion of the cliff face on the left. You may consider doing multiple shots with different focus points and then merging them together so everything is sharp. I really wish the immediate foreground in the bottom left and the golder cliff face were as sharp as the other two areas I mentioned.

In closing:
This is a fantastic image and you should be proud and enter it into the contest I mentioned.

Just going a little deeper on the feedback for you.

Eia

First response is - wow. Second is - out of my league to c&c. Third response is - I'll be interested to see how this can be improved and hope to learn! This is breath taking!

richtersl

Didn't you do a similar shot for one of the challenges?
I think you nailed it this time, however.

It's gorgeous!

kdog

Toroweap... Toroweap... hmmm. Sounds familiar, but can't quite put my finger on it.

Beautiful rendition, Aaron. Your fastidious processing really shows here. Print, frame and hang.

Cheers,
-joel

dlplumer

This looks vaguely familiar

Nice job Aaron. My only nit is the lower right quadrant. I find the demarcation from the gold glow to the natural rock, too harsh. I would like to see it "feathered" a bit so it doesn't distract.

Tango

kdog wrote:

Toroweap... Toroweap... hmmm. Sounds familiar, but can't quite put my finger on it.

Beautiful rendition, Aaron. Your fastidious processing really shows here. Print, frame and hang.

Cheers,
-joel

Thanks Joel, I guess another introduction is in order....:D

get that Jeep ready!

Tango

richtersl wrote:

I think you nailed it this time, however.

It's gorgeous!

thanks Linda, I did better in camera with the mid-tones this time making the layering mask far more wide & natural than my MC1 entry.... also made the star a little smaller too...

Tango

dlplumer wrote:

This looks vaguely familiar

Nice job Aaron. My only nit is the lower right quadrant. I find the demarcation from the gold glow to the natural rock, to harsh. I would like to see it "feathered" a bit so it doesn't distract.

I will re-work the shadow with more feather, and maybe a little less curves

Tango

Eia wrote:

First response is - wow. Second is - out of my league to c&c. Third response is - I'll be interested to see how this can be improved and hope to learn! This is breath taking!

thank you kindly!,
also, out of your league?, not for a second ! (but if you only have nice things to say about this image thats completely fine on my ears...haha)

Tango

anwmn1 wrote:

Okay here goes:

1. Your slow- wasn't this like months ago?
2. I hate you! and my Jeep for breaking down on me.
3. hmmm.......



Seriously though-

This is a very strong image and you are going to get some mad props for it.

I will be the bad guy though and point out little nit picks that you can roll your eyes or toss out.

1. For me the biggest nit pick is actually the upper third of the image. The flare is great, the blue in the sky is sweet, and the depth of vistas is great. However all together it bothers me a little bit. Starting with the cliff edge on the right you have 6 separate horizontal lines which break the photo up. The eye kind of gets lost there and the large gray cloud is a natural break which makes it difficult for your eyes to naturally lead to the sweet blue above. This is not a technical issue at all as the top third as parts are done very well. It is more an artistic and natural flow that is missing.

2. Another artsy natural eye dead zone is actually the center of the image. Other than the blue sky at the top every other subject has leading lines moving your eyes to the center of the image. The cliff face on the left leads you directly to the river. The river leads you up and down from the sun flare to the rock ledge at the bottom. The flare and the rock ledge at the bottom both have protruding elements which lead to almost dead center in the image.... but there is nothing there.

I know this is not the normal type of feedback and some may not agree or even get it- but for me leading lines and natural eye movement are huge part of a piece of art. And that my friend is what you are trying to create.


On the normal feedback stuff the only nit picks are that I wish this thing has uber detail throughout the image. The sharpest points seem to be the right bottom third and the top portion of the cliff face on the left. You may consider doing multiple shots with different focus points and then merging them together so everything is sharp. I really wish the immediate foreground in the bottom left and the golder cliff face were as sharp as the other two areas I mentioned.

In closing:
This is a fantastic image and you should be proud and enter it into the contest I mentioned.

Just going a little deeper on the feedback for you.

nothing bad at all, thank you so much for the effort to my request!!!!!!
I can agree with you on most of these points!
I can adjust the comp on the next trip and see what happens...
and also, specifically multiple focus, last night when working this image I thought to myself "why the hell dont I change my aperture after shooting the sun start @ f22 !!!!! I was wishing I had shot the FG @ f11 or f8 and even done some multiple focus for the cliff on the left. I even thought to write out a step by step check list to remind me of this the next time that Im on a 2000ft cliff out in the middle of nowhere! so its really good that you were open enough to notice and mention it!

CWSkopec

Aaron, great looking shot! I've had trouble getting my Toro sunrises processed because I just couldn't figure out how the canyon should look. I'm going to use yours here as an example for how it should look!

The only real nit I have is that the shadow and positioning on the upper left part of the foreground cliff is making it blend in with the cliff in the distance. I know from looking at my own shots that that is how it was naturally, but if you could lighten that rock just a bit it would help seperate it from the background.

Maybe next time, get a little bit lower and "push" that rock up into the sky past the distant cliffs.

Overall great shot!

Tango

CWSkopec wrote:

Maybe next time, get a little bit lower and "push" that rock up into the sky past the distant cliffs.

Overall great shot!

I totally thought to do that (while processing this image I was thinking that Marc Muench would totally grill me or anyone over that!)
also, a move to my right a little bit would have helped keep the river off the cliff... however that would have required me pushing DanPlumer off the cliff....:D

just kidding Danny...

pathfinder

AaronNelson wrote:

Sunrise @ Toroweap...
I seriously dont understand how you people knockout so much photography... it takes me months to complete one image....

Need some cut & dry C&C
May I have your first impressions?
and second & third too?

Lovely!! Frame it and hang it.

I would prefer the sun slightly to the right - it is a little too centered, but what's a fella gonna do.

The handling of the unlit canyon wall is always difficult. I had the same problem in my image as well - deciding just how much detail to bring up so that it is not a dark featureless blob, but no so much it begins to look unreal to the viewer's eye. I am not sure that the same answer is correct for a positive transparency ( as seen on the web ) and for a print with a much narrower scale of tonalities. What I think looks best on my monitor, is not always what I prefer in my print. Do you notice this disparity at times, also?

Well done!!

Tango

pathfinder wrote:

I am not sure that the same answer is correct for a positive transparency ( as seen on the web ) and for a print with a much narrower scale of tonalities. What I think looks best on my monitor, is not always what I prefer in my print. Do you notice this disparity at times, also?

Well done!!

honestly I need to take another print workshop (dont get me wrong most people like the prints they see of mine, but I know it can be improved upon in post) btw, my biggest problem is luminosity when printed, the metallic paper brings it out but in a fantasyland way...and on luster I need to process luminosity over the top to get what im after...

frankly, the disparity is a love/hate thing for me....... but however if it was easy then how would we get joy?

toddlio

Aaron,
First impression-it is a beautiful shot. If I'm being critical I would crop the blue sky out, giving the image more of a warm mood and I personally do not like the sun dead center and maybe taken the shot more to the left and down a little bit giving the viewer more canyon wall (which I think is the subject) and spectacular light.

coscorrosa

Great shot!

Since the other Aaron got to be pedantic, now it's my turn

I think compositionally it would be improved if you moved to the right a little more so that the river wasn't clipped (this might not be possible, not sure how wide the river is at that point), and angled slightly so that the sun was more on the right 1/3 of the image, and still have the river and left cliff both leading to the sun.

The processing to me looks really good though, nice light in the foreground and cliffs.

But my biggest criticism is how long it took you to get around to processing this! By delaying the processing you're delaying the feedback loop (external AND internal) to get better and improve. Anything you would learn as a result of this photo you can't apply until months after it was taken. So instead of working 16 hours a day and sleeping 4 hours a day, work 16 hours a day and sleep 3 hours a day, and use that other hour to go through your photos

kdog

coscorrosa wrote:

I think compositionally it would be improved if you moved to the right a little more

Hahahaha!!! Yeah, that first step is a doozy. About 4,000' straight down!

DavidTO

AaronNelson wrote:

honestly I need to take another print workshop

There's another one in the works for February.

Dogdots

Aaron this photo is just beautiful. I love how you have such detail from the rocks right up to the blue sky

It may take you long to edit, but in the end it was well worth the time.

coscorrosa

kdog wrote:

Hahahaha!!! Yeah, that first step is a doozy. About 4,000' straight down!

Hey man, if Aaron isn't willing to sacrifice for his photography then that's his problem

pathfinder

kdog wrote:

Hahahaha!!! Yeah, that first step is a doozy. About 4,000' straight down!

That's why I said what's a fella gonna do - I knew where he was standing!

Tango

Dogdots wrote:

Aaron this photo is just beautiful. I love how you have such detail from the rocks right up to the blue sky

It may take you long to edit, but in the end it was well worth the time.

thanks

Tango

this is sounding like a fish story, the fish keeps getting bigger and bigger...

(if toroweap is 12ft, its a mile deep)

Tango

toddlio wrote:

Aaron,
First impression-it is a beautiful shot. If I'm being critical I would crop the blue sky out, giving the image more of a warm mood and I personally do not like the sun dead center and maybe taken the shot more to the left and down a little bit giving the viewer more canyon wall (which I think is the subject) and spectacular light.

thanks, no worries man, ya ive had a few not like the centerness of the sun in my past, but for some reason I keep doing it...
(really its because im going for a star thats even... its the pano shots I keep forgetting to do, lol)

Tango

DavidTO wrote:

There's another one in the works for February.

how about Fall? Like Nov 5th maybe?:D

shniks

Wow Aaron- that is such a great image. Love it!



Cheers,