2nd shooter protocol. Guidlines?

Weisel

Hi all. I have tried searching "2nd shooter" here on Dgrin, but it refuses to cooperate.

I'm still relatively new with wedding photography, with just 4 under my belt now. Last weekend, I shot my first wedding as the primary shooter, under my own contract, and I also had a 2nd shooter I hired.

In 2 days now, I'll be someone else's 2nd shooter.

I was hoping to get a good thread going on what some expectations are with regard to certain things. I'll throw out a few questions, and also I hope to get other topics mentioned as well. If this is a rerun thread, feel free to simply direct me to an old thread if you know of one. I can't find it.

Also, I know there will be several variances of answers and opinions, but I'm hoping to get a general feel for this.

1) If I'm a 2nd shooter, do I get to use and of my images on my website?

2) How do you all feel about usng your 2nd's images on your website, if you really like them? (especially if your company bears your name)

3) As a 2nd shooter, Is it normal to shoot with your own CF card (or whatever), then make a DVD at home and send it to your primary? I know some photog's will have hard drived on the job with them, where they will dump it all down there, on the spot.

3) Any other words of advice about ANYTHING related? (this will help me, whether I'm a primary or a 2nd)

Thanks in advance.

Memories by Melinda

This thread should help.

Agnieszka

Weisel wrote:

1) If I'm a 2nd shooter, do I get to use and of my images on my website?

I guess eery photographer handles that differently, I personally don't care if my seconds use their images on their websites. They are usually there to learn and get more experience + build their portfolio. I think it's just fair, if they can show off their images (but should mention on their blog that they were seconds for that particular wedding)

Weisel wrote:

2) How do you all feel about usng your 2nd's images on your website, if you really like them? (especially if your company bears your name)

It's a no-go for me. Well, DEFINITELY a NO for my website (I am only posting MY images on there), posting your second's shots on your blog is in theory ok (for me), but only if you give them proper credit.

Weisel wrote:

3) As a 2nd shooter, Is it normal to shoot with your own CF card (or whatever), then make a DVD at home and send it to your primary? I know some photog's will have hard drived on the job with them, where they will dump it all down there, on the spot.

Again, I think everybody does it differently ... I usually drag around a laptop with me and download my second's photos the night off, like this I don't have to wait for any CF / DVDs and can start working on them as soon as I want. (+ without having to worry that they get lost in the mail). So, they shoot on their own CF cards, and I get all the pics right after the wedding / event.

Weisel wrote:

3) Any other words of advice about ANYTHING related? (this will help me, whether I'm a primary or a 2nd)

Have fun & ask the primary what exactly he / she expects from your pics

Moogle Pepper

2nd Agnieszka!

I mean I agree with what she said cause it is spot on! Just talk it over with the person you are 2nd shooting for. Everyone has different approaches.

Weisel

The above link to the old thread is a perfect answer, so is what is written above in reply to my questions. Thanks folks. As far as image usage, I would hope only to at least be able to use 2-3 of my best photos on my website. As for me using images from MY 2nd shooters on my website, I agree what would not be cool. I want people to look at my website and know I shot every photo they see. Anyway-thanks again.

FedererPhoto

[FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif]

Weisel wrote:

1) If I'm a 2nd shooter, do I get to use and of my images on my website?

If your primary is okay with it. I let my seconds use their images on their sites if they want.

2) How do you all feel about usng your 2nd's images on your website, if you really like them? (especially if your company bears your name)

My site is a catalog of images and examples of work that my company will create for your wedding event. I don't care who made the photograph, if I own rights to it (which I do for a paid second shooter), and I think it's amazing - I'll post it without hesitation, it wouldn't even factor into the decision.

3) As a 2nd shooter, Is it normal to shoot with your own CF card (or whatever), then make a DVD at home and send it to your primary? I know some photog's will have hard drived on the job with them, where they will dump it all down there, on the spot.

That's something for you and your primary to work out. I have seconded for people where I used all my own gear and just sent them culled and processed jpgs afterwards... and I've seconded for people where I used all there gear and CF cards and I never saw the images I made. ... and everything in between. My own seconds use gear I provide (unless they have their own) and write to CF cards I own. They give me the CF cards when done at the end of the day. I provide their files to them, if they want them, via FTP weeks or months later (whenever convenient).

3) Any other words of advice about ANYTHING related? (this will help me, whether I'm a primary or a 2nd)

Drink lots of water.[/FONT]

Qarik

About using the 2nd shooter images on your website. It depends. As part of the portfolio? No way. If you are proofing from your website I don't see how you can avoid it. Furthermore it doesn't make sense to give credit to the 2nd per picture unless that was contracted but I would never agree to a contract like that.

FedererPhoto

Qarik wrote:

As part of the portfolio? No way.

Why?

Perhaps I don't understand -- is my portfolio's purpose not to advertise the coverage I provide (which includes a second shooter)?

divamum

Here's another thread (for some reason I remembered a sentence from it so could search it easily ) While it starts out discussiong $, there's a lot of interesting info on protocol, practices, and distinctions between assistants/2nd shooters etc. HTH!

mmmatt

FedererPhoto wrote:

Why?

Perhaps I don't understand -- is my portfolio's purpose not to advertise the coverage I provide (which includes a second shooter)?

I don't see any problem with this as long as it is consistent with what you provide or the work is from your normal 2nd shooter. If somebody shot for you a couple of times and is no longer on the team I wouldn't personally use them. A contract (or permission) would be the deciding factor as to if it is the right thing to do IMO.

Matt

905Apertures

I don't 2nd for anyone, but my 2nd's photos are my property, and as far as presenting a variety of images (myself being male, the 2nd is female), I have no hesitation showing her stuff on the blog or site. My clients don't care who shot it - they care about the quality, the emotion, etc of the images themselves. They're not just hiring me, they're hiring us for our collective view of the days events.

Scott_Quier

Weisel wrote:

1) If I'm a 2nd shooter, do I get to use and of my images on my website?

Yes. They are your photos. I just ask that you not sell them to the client - that's my domain

Weisel wrote:

2) How do you all feel about usng your 2nd's images on your website, if you really like them? (especially if your company bears your name)

No issues. I include all the photos from a wedding in a group of galleries for my clients, so of course the photos from the second shooter will show there. The clients look at these galleries to get a feel for what they can expect from me (and mine). So, of course I make the second shooter's shots available for viewing.

Weisel wrote:

3) As a 2nd shooter, Is it normal to shoot with your own CF card (or whatever), then make a DVD at home and send it to your primary? I know some photog's will have hard drived on the job with them, where they will dump it all down there, on the spot.

I provide the second shooter with a handful of CF cards and expect them to use these cards for the gig. At the end of the gig, I get the cards back. If the second shooter wants a copy of the RAWs, they can either bring their own laptop and download them from the cards or wait for me to mail them a DVD (or three) of the shots.

Weisel wrote:

4) Any other words of advice about ANYTHING related? (this will help me, whether I'm a primary or a 2nd)

One of the primary responsibilities of the second shooter is to get a second perspective. If that means shooting where I can't (the ladies' dressing room, for example) or in a different room (I can't be in two places at any given moment) - well, you get the point. The second shooter is NOT paid to shoot the same scene from the same position I'm shooting - what's the benefit of that?

Weisel wrote:

Thanks in advance.