20D White Balance.

Aaron Wilson

On my 20D under the white balance section.. what do you set it as? I have never taken a pic of a white papper and set it... And I always leave it on AWB... Auto white balance. I shoot the first time with a 580ex... I keeped it on awb... I was told the flash would over ride the settings.. is that true? Should I always shoot with that not set for awb??? I do everything else mannuel.

USAIR

Aaron
I shoot in auto wb and shoot in raw so I can adjust the wb in post if I need to
I think the auto wb does a good job I use it when I shoot .jpgs also

You can also set the wb you take a photo of a gray card in the light you will be shooting then you tell the 20d to use this as gray for the rest of the photos

I don't have the manual with me now...take a look and see it's not that hard

Hope this was some help

Fred

Khaos

The one beautiful thing about digital and PS is not worrying about the WB. You can always adjust it during post processing. I never worry about it. I take care of the rest manually, but the WB, I leave to the camera.

leebase

AWB is fine for outdoors, but indoors Canon's AWB isn't very good.

Yes, one can shoot in raw and worry about the wb in post processing -- not a very easy thing many times. Even though I shoot raw most of the time, I still set a custom wb when shooting inside.

Don't use a white piece of paper. For best results look into getting a WhitBal card or an expodisc to use in setting WB. Whitbal card is much cheaper....I think an expodisc is more convenient to use.

Lee

Aaron Wilson

were?
were can I get one of those cards at?

leebase wrote:

AWB is fine for outdoors, but indoors Canon's AWB isn't very good.

Yes, one can shoot in raw and worry about the wb in post processing -- not a very easy thing many times. Even though I shoot raw most of the time, I still set a custom wb when shooting inside.

Don't use a white piece of paper. For best results look into getting a WhitBal card or an expodisc to use in setting WB. Whitbal card is much cheaper....I think an expodisc is more convenient to use.

Lee

pathfinder

Aaron Wilson wrote:

On my 20D under the white balance section.. what do you set it as? I have never taken a pic of a white papper and set it... And I always leave it on AWB... Auto white balance. I shoot the first time with a 580ex... I keeped it on awb... I was told the flash would over ride the settings.. is that true? Should I always shoot with that not set for awb??? I do everything else mannuel.

AWB and RAW solve a lit of problems. But using Shade can be very helpful when shooting people in the shade or snow in the winter time. Electronic flash light balance can also be helpful with studio strobes. Thats the beauty of digital - shoot a couple of frames with Sunlight, Shade, Cloudy, Tungsten and see what you get. You might find you like it better than ole AWB. Or not. But dump the digital files and keep what you like. What's not to like here??

digismile

www.whibal.com available on line.
www.expodisc.com available on line or at various retailers

Aaron Wilson wrote:

were can I get one of those cards at?

Phil U.

Aaron Wilson wrote:

were can I get one of those cards at?

I use "WarmCards" found at http://www.warmcards.com

Each card is a different strength of "warmth". They're all two-sided with a warm balance on one side and pure white on the other.

Hmmm.... I just looked at the site - It doesn't appear that they're offering the same set that I have anymore. They had a "Digital Photographer" pack with cards sized for us. It also looks like cards they used to include in the pack are now "optional cards". I guess they're looking to make more money. I can't say that I'd reccomend buying that pack they're offering now but I guess it's another option for you to look at.

Red Baron

Although I shoot RAW, in unusual light, I do a CWB using an Expodisc and it nails the white balance every time. Most of my lenses have a 77mm filter size but I bought a 72mm Expodisc (they didn't make a 77mm at the time) and attached it to a 77mm stepping ring. Now my Expodisc stays on my camera all the time functioning as a lens cap so it's ready to roll whenever I need it. WhiBal looks very good too but I think an Expodisc is money well spent. In my opinion, if you own a DSLR, even if you shoot 100% RAW, you should have some tool (e.g., Expodisc, WhiBal, grey card etc.) to facilitate CWB if you want to minimize post-processing fuss. Personally, I'd rather focus my post-processing effort on things other than adjusting white balance.

gus

Aaron AWB is spot on in daylight (ive never seen it miss a beat) & night is simple...adjust temp in RAW conversion. Its just that easy. Gus

robscomputer

In daylight my 10D is pretty close to the correct white balance but as mentioned before it's the interior lighting that messes it up. I was just talking to a pro wedding photographer about this problem and he highly recommended using the Expodisc. I'm going to have and check them out.

Rob

BBones

Ok, so I just bought the 77mm expodisc for my 70-200 IS L 2.8. Expensive bugger.

Can I hold it up to the smaller sized lenses to se white balance? I have a 50mm 1.8. Could I just hold it onto the 50mm or the 10-22mm lens and set white balance that way?

Also, when setting the WB, should I aim it at my light source to set it or at what I would be shooting at? I am going to be using this primarily to set the WB while I am at the race track. Some areas get covered by the trees so I have a constant shadow to light thing that I am fighting with and sometimes I am facing the sun while other times my back is to the sun.

mercphoto

BBones wrote:

Can I hold it up to the smaller sized lenses to se white balance? I have a 50mm 1.8. Could I just hold it onto the 50mm or the 10-22mm lens and set white balance that way?

Yes.

Also, when setting the WB, should I aim it at my light source to set it or at what I would be shooting at? I am going to be using this primarily to set the WB while I am at the race track. Some areas get covered by the trees so I have a constant shadow to light thing that I am fighting with and sometimes I am facing the sun while other times my back is to the sun.

I'm not sure, but I believe you point it at your light source. In this case, the sky. But the disc should come with directions. Personally I'm surprised you are having this many issues, especially with outdoor racing. Have you tried using Auto Levels in Photoshop as a means of correcting any minor color issues you have?

BBones

In playing with PS I have seen that if I do Auto Level versus Manual levels there is a difference. Out here in the PNW we get A LOT of lighting differences throughout the day. I can very easily start the day cloudy, sunny by noon and raining badly at the end of the day. Not to mention the constant cloudy/sunny/cloudy/sunny within a 5 minute period.

mercphoto

BBones wrote:

In playing with PS I have seen that if I do Auto Level versus Manual levels there is a difference. Out here in the PNW we get A LOT of lighting differences throughout the day. I can very easily start the day cloudy, sunny by noon and raining badly at the end of the day. Not to mention the constant cloudy/sunny/cloudy/sunny within a 5 minute period.

Wow! That will wreak havoc for sure. In Central Texas, I can count on the daylight staying rather constant.

Manual levels gives the best results, but is a lot of work. I've only had one gripe with Auto Levels so far for outdoor racing, and that is what it (sometimes) does to the sky, which is remove the pretty blue. Not always, but often enough that I don't like doing it anymore. I've since gone to a different route for making colors pop that is still automated and can be batched. Search the forums for my post about "more vivid colors".

BBones

Can you send me a link to some sample work you have done (before/after) with regards to that more vivid color utility?

mercphoto

BBones wrote:

Can you send me a link to some sample work you have done (before/after) with regards to that more vivid color utility?

Straight from the 20D. In-camera large-fine JPG, Parameters 1:

Then with auto-levels, high pass filter sharpening:

Instead with more vivid colors, high pass filter sharpening:

I need to find a shot that has some sky in it, however.

Red Baron

As previously mentioned, yes you can simply hold the Expodisc in front of your lens to get a reading. In my case, I use it as a replacement for my lens cap so it's always there ready to use.

You'll find the Expodisc instructions and a PDF at the following link:

http://www.expoimaging.net/products/expodisc/instructions.html

Wherever possible, I point my camera with Expodisc attached at the dominant light source to set my CWB. Used in this manner, it can also function as an incident light meter to set exposure - very slick and well worth the money.

I live in the Pacific North West too (Vancouver BC aka Raincouver or the Wet Coast) but that's all the more reason to use the Expodisc.:D

photobug

Custom White Balance is awesome

Aaron Wilson wrote:

On my 20D under the white balance section.. what do you set it as? I have never taken a pic of a white papper and set it... And I always leave it on AWB... Auto white balance. ....

Using AWB for normal shooting is fine.

But when you're shooting in lighting conditions where there is a clear color cast -- such as under tungsten or florescent (or mixed!) lighting, and even outdoors toward either end of the day -- try Custom White Balance. It's a multi-step process, so it requires at least 60 seconds of patience.

1. Set white balance on the top of the camera to the Custom White Balance symbol (you can do this later, but it's easiest to do it now).
2. Shoot a neutral subject that fills at least the center of the frame -- a gray card is nice, but I just carry a folded piece of white paper in my bag and it works great. I've even used the back of someone's white T-shirt or sweater, in a pinch.
3. Using the Menu on the back, select Custom White Balance. Then click on the Set button in the middle of the Quick Dial when the photo you just shot is in the LCD screen (usually it's the first shot that pops up).

Now shoot away. Remember to set the WB setting back to AWB when you shoot a different scene!

You'll be amazed how dead-on the colors are, even when shot under lights that cast a lot of color of their own on the subject.

I disagree with the poster who said "don't bother -- just Photoshop the color cast away". Yeah, you can do that, but it can be a lot of work if the scene doesn't contain any element of a neutral (true white, gray, or black) color. If you use Custom White Balance, your JPGs will be dead-on color balanced right out of the box. (Also, I'm not an expert but I suspect there could be situations where lighting was so far off that you couldn't completely take the color cast out of a JPG image in Photoshop -- e.g. if some pixel values saturated at 0 or 255.)

And just as a reminder -- note that white balance settings have no effect on RAW files.

Definitely, try Custom White Balance in available-light, non-daylight situations. It was one of the best tips I've ever received from a fellow photographer!

Aaron Wilson

hmm
I shot with the raw+jpeg So I dont have to do som uch converting.. so is it worth changing the AWB? or should I leave it alonr seance in raw files it will be non related? If I do change the awb and set it.. should I use the color white on the subject for setting it?
Or is a black or greay card better to use? Still new in the high end digital cameras as in 35mm it was simpler... it seemes. What is white balance in the first place.. maybe thats where I should have started the post with vs jumping to step 3... lol... or shjould I ask how important it is to the photos taken?

photobug

I shot with the raw+jpeg So I dont have to do so much converting ... so is it worth changing the AWB? or should I leave it alone since in raw files it will [have no effect]?

If you use the JPG files, then yes I'd recommend setting the white balance. It will save you mucking around with color balance in Photoshop (unless you want to change it in Photoshop for artistic reasons -- but it still makes sense to me to start with the correct white balance).

If I do change the awb and set it.. should I use the color white on the subject for setting it? Or is a black or greay card better to use?

I don't think it matters, as long as you're using a true neutral (white, gray, or black) color.

Note that the color you shoot for reference has to fill the center of the viewfinder, so you have to find something that not only is a neutral color but can fill that part of the viewfinder. (I usually just use a white sheet of paper that I keep folded up in my camera bag.)

Still new in the high end digital cameras as in [film] it was simpler... it seems.

"It seems" is correct -- it's really no different than for film, except much more accurate. Maybe you didn't realize it, but with film, you still chose the "white balance" for your shots. You chose Daylight-balanced film, Tungsten-balanced film, etc, plus you may have used a filter on your lens to further refine the color balance that would be recorded -- for a total of perhaps 5 to 10 choices of color balance. Plus (esp if you shot a gray card), your color lab may have further refined your color "balance" in the prints it made.

Now you have a relatively "infinite" adjustment on the color balance you shoot -- plus you can change it for every single shot, without changing a roll of film!

So it's still the same thing you were already doing -- you just push some buttons instead of loading film and changing lens filters.

What is white balance in the first place ?

Just think of it as color balance, or "removal of color cast". The end result is that WHITEs end up recorded as WHITE -- and when that happens, all other colors end up recorded pretty faithfully, too.