Yet ANOTHER Pricing Question

Dionysus

I've looked through pages and pages and I've seen numerous pricing threads, but I guess none with all the info I need in it (could be waaay down the line in pages, but I'm on lunch, and don't have all day to look)...so I have to take the easy route and just ask a new question.

Anyway, I'm getting to the point where people are asking me to do portraits for them. I started out doing close friends/family for free, and instead of charging used their word of mouth to get people to come to me. Well, now they are coming to me, and I have no idea how to price things.

I'm not a lifelong professional, so I wouldnt feel comfortable charging full pro prices. On top of it all, I live in upstate new york...it's hard enough to get people to pay for photos, and the average person doesn't earn that much. But hey, I want to buy new equipment LOL.

My main concerns are:

1. Sitting Fee...How much would be reasonable for the average family or solo portrait shoot? How much time is usually covered under the typical siting fee.

2. I've toyed with the idea of the two tiers: a bigger sitting fee, for people who just want the cd to print on their own, and a 'regular' fee which will include all their processed photos for them to purchase on my website. Is this reasonable?

3. If I just go with one way of charging a flat sitting fee, and posting photos on my website...how much should I charge for a cd with all the photos on it, if they want it IN ADDITION to the option to print photos from my gallery.

4. For people who want to hire me to do an event (race, sports, concert, etc)...what would be a reasonable hourly rate, keeping all the issues in mind from above.

Sorry for the long post...hoping to get this squared away so I can proceed with business.

Cygnus Studios

Dionysus wrote:

I'm not a lifelong professional, so I wouldnt feel comfortable charging full pro prices.

If you are charging, you are a pro for that moment in time.

That does not mean that you have to earn all your money from photography, but it does mean that you have the necessary equipment to get the job done. You have the necessary skills to deliver a professional result. You have the necessary attitude to conduct a professional sitting.

The only time that you should charge amateur prices is when you present amateur results.

As for pricing, this is also simple. What is your time worth? Stop worrying about what the man down the street is charging or not charging. Until the man down the street is paying your bills, putting gas in your car, and feeding you, his prices have NOTHING to do with you.

If you can charge $10 an hour and get people to pay for it, you are worth it.
If you can charge $500 an hour and get people to pay for it, you are worth it.

Your price is based on your needs and the results provided. Nothing more than that.

There is no way for anyone to determine what your hourly rate is. Figure out what you need to earn, divide it by the number of gigs and that is your rate.

Nikolai

As Steve said, it's all up to you...
I personally perfer having all the payments upfront with the predefined set of results. If they deicde to purchase extra prints/books/magents - more power to you, but at least you'll cover your cost/margin right off the bat.

Dionysus

points taken (from all). I guess for me its always a question of confidence. Which is why at the time being I won't touch weddings..because I dont have the confidence to be the only person documenting this (hopefully) once in a lifetime event. At least w/ normal portraits, I can reshoot...can't do that w/ a wedding, so until I'm truly confident in my ability I want to stay away from weddings.

The confidence thing is what has me hesitant to come up w/ a price. I know I do good work , in the eyes of people that see it. I have a lot of room to grow and improve, but usually they are in areas that mostly only photographers see...The average person is blown away. And I guess that is good enough...and the fact that people want me to shoot them, should be testament to my skill. BUT by full price pro prices I meant like 500.00 just to get the ball rolling as some in my area are charging...I don't feel comfortable charging that, especially since I'm new on the scene...which is what I meant. I don't want to be cheap either...if they want cheap, they can go to walmart. Maybe I should rephrase my questions:

1. Does a multi tier pricing thing work, or should I stay a flat rate and all other things are extra? Like what TYPICALLY comes with packages and sitting fees? Should I bother with a separate fee for people that just want their photos on a cd? or should I charge them the flat sitting fee, and charge extra for the cd?

2. How much time does the usual sitting fee cover?

Glort wrote:

Before I read the other highlighted reply, this comment sent red lights flashing and alarm bells ringing for me as well.

If you don't feel comfortable charging full pro prices Why the heck are you even contemplating this in the first place?
Do you really thing that people are going to be happy with unprofessional crap quality work just because it is cheap?

What do you think people are going to say about your work when they show it to to others? " Yes, I know the pictures arent very good but it''s OK because they were cheap".
Pigs Bum!

They will be unhappy with them at any price and if they get you in to cover something special that can't be done again, you will be making people very unhappy and dissapointed potentially for years to come. If you are going to do dodgy work and can't do pics of a proper standard, don't stuff up the industry for the rest of us and cause a bad reputation for our profession.

Now, if your reading this and are now ticked off saying " My work isn't dodgy, I do good Pics" then there is no need to insult your self by charging less than you are worth is there !

Pricing your work is hard enough but if you are going to try and deliberately skew the answer, then your in for a real hard time.
As I just wrote on another thread, few people will book you by price and those that do are always pains in the backside that you never make any money out of and end up wishing to heck you never took on the job in the first place. Don't do as I did and learn that the hard way, take the benefit of advise I never had.

I'm not a life long professional either. I started taking pics professionally well after I was born and with a bit of luck, being 45 I still have a couple of years left in me yet. I do tend to price my work at the higher end of the scale though and rarely loose work through price alone because that is not what the people I want to work with base their decisions on.
If price were the main thing people took notice of, everyone in the world would be driving cheap Chinese and Indian made crap cars wouldn't they?

There is always a price range of work in any market and if you want to go lower end, that's fine but don't undercut the going rate and devalue yourself or the industry. If you have a standard of work that is not doing people a disservice or ripping them off, then there is NO reason you shouldn't charge an industry level rate.

If you want to give your time and effort away, do it where it will be appropriate and appreciated like working for a charity.
If you want to work as a professional, as taking payment for services rendered is, then charge a professional level fee.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that Cheap equals more work because all it does equal is more headaches.

Cygnus Studios

I personally like all the money up front with X number of prints/images in return. I will also add additional prints/images/sizes for X dollars.

Example:

1 hour with 10 images $150
Each additional image $10

1 hour with 10 prints $150 plus print price

I try to bundle print packages 11x14, (2) 8x10, (4) 5x7, (3) group of wallets. I add a few bucks to the print price (but just enough to cover taxes).

Keep it simple.

Art Scott

Along with what has already been said....you can always set up private galleries for them to order prints from.....
Write contract stating that for $XX.XX client will get my services for.......{most portrait session run min 2 hours....low end here is around $75 for a 2 hour session}........and there will be a private gallery set up with special prices for X-number of days following the opening of the gallery, after which the prices will return to regular retail prices....client will be notified by email when the gallery is open and client will receive private password for gallery viewing.....client has the right to give password to whomever they desire..............and anyone they give the password to can order pixwink

Client always ask how many shots did I take and I always give the same answer....I forgot to format the card so I have no idea how many we shot because I do not know how many was already on here.....or I had a real late shoot last night and I do not know where yours start .......and you almost always get the OOOOOOOOh....I see comment back.........I shoot by the hour only.....when I was shooting film I shot 12-24 images over that 2 hour period.....now I will just fire away.....BUT I make damn sure that I have auto bracketing turned off.....if I see a need to bracket I do it manually...as I shoot in manual any way.....


Be a PRO for the time your shooting and respect the PROS in your area......by not giving away your work.........by that I mean if SIR CLint is charging $500/portrait session.......and Joe the cam guy is charging $250 don't come in charging $50 per session.......come in there at $200 - 300 and never tell anyone how long you really have been shooting portraits until you are established.....best answer is I started shooting when I was (8 or 9 ..... or 5 or 6.......or I did my first PRO gig 10 or 15 yrs ago {depending on your age} ....)............If jope the cam guy's work is truly mediocre then price above him...........IT ALL COMES DOWN TO: 1- THE ECONOMY OF YOUR AREA......2- YOUR PERCEIVED WORTH.......which right now is what you make it out to be.......

Dionysus

all wonderful info from everyone..thanks, i will take it all to heart...when i sit down and formulate a price structure..hopefully tonight.

BizShotz

Well, how'd it go?

I'm currently following all of Glorts threads ( no, i'm not stalking him per se ),and ran across this one, and now I'm dying to know what you decided on charging and if it all went as you'd liked.

Art Scott

Dionysus wrote:

all wonderful info from everyone..thanks, i will take it all to heart...when i sit down and formulate a price structure..hopefully tonight.

I too am curious about ho it went and what you decided on pricing............

Also your SMUGMUG link in your siggy....takes you not to your gallery but a smugmug inc home page....was that link to go to YOUR GALLERIES or to their home page??????