Me

Ann McRae

So, I haven't played with my studio lights in a long time. Hubby needs some promo shots. I need to get warmed up to them again because I am taking photos for 2 sets of friends this weekend.

We had a blast, after I figured out the cause of the harsh shadows :rolleyes

and got out my pocket wizards.

Took his head shots (still to be processed) and then some of both of us (using a remote release) and finally gave the camera to the man and posed. This is the result:

kidzmom

Lookin' great! Nice skin tones and lighting!!

NeilL

Fine job, Ann. Very natural-looking photo.

Neil

divamum

Ann -

Firstly, aren't you adorable! I always love seeing SPs - firstly just to get a more "real" face behind the poster than our avatars often allow, and because it's just such fun to see how people see themselves

Of course, it depends on the style you're going for but I think you could actually use a bit less light, or at least fiddle with the ratio a bit - it's nice and bright, but actually TOO bright all over for my taste. Both sides of the face are really evenly lit.... for me (and ymmv of course) I'd like a less even ratio for modelling shadows to add a bit more shape and interest, and for the background to be somewhat less prominent. Remember too, that for most of us gals short lighting is more flattering (keylight playing on side of face away from camera) - you look great in this, but if your subjects have a less balanced face or are carrying extra pounds, a more angled pose with more significant modelling shadows may flatter them more.

Are you shooting individuals or family groups this weekend?

mtbparker

Isn't portrait shooting fun? I like the shot. I was wondering, is there any way you can get some backlighting in there? It will help separate you from the backdrop a little.

Tom

Scott_Quier

It's a nice shot of a quite attractive lady. Are you looking for C&C?

davev

It's a nice shot Ann.
I hope you don't mind, I gave it shot at "dressing it up", and maybe dropping one or two years.

Two things about the shot.
1) Try a larger aperture. This was shot at f6.3
2) Move away from the background a bit more, let it blur out some.

I ran this through Portrait Professional, then just a bit of touch up in Camera Raw and CS3.

Gventure

davev wrote:

It's a nice shot Ann.
I hope you don't mind, I gave it shot at "dressing it up", and maybe dropping one or two years.

Two things about the shot.
1) Try a larger aperture. This was shot at f6.3
2) Move away from the background a bit more, let it blur out some.

I ran this through Portrait Professional, then just a bit of touch up in Camera Raw and CS3.

I like the first one much better. In the first I can see the subject and in the second one I can see what someone thinks the subject should look like. The point to me, whether the client likes it or not (whole other discussion about how far we cave to clients), is that we as photographers should be using our photography skills to capture what is before us - we can use exposures, DOF, lighting etc to produce great shots - and that separates us from the shooter next door. These days, there are too many photoshop experts "creating" whatever it is they want resulting in a final prodcut very far from reality. Why? Because society thinks everyone should have flawless hair, eyes, skin and teeth? I have a strong and growing dislike for that. I think we insult the subject when we essentially say to them "you were not attractive enough so I made you better". Where does that kind of touch up stop? Why not give the subject a longer neck, puffed out boobs, more hair etc (not this particular subject mind you but in general)? And I am not talking about minor touch ups of temporary flaws - like covering a pimple or a drool spot on a baby's clothes. I am talking about essentially creating a different person from the one we shot. OK, enough of my tirade, I like the original.

PS - Ann - I think you did a great job!

Ann McRae

NeilL wrote:

Fine job, Ann. Very natural-looking photo.

Neil

Thanks, Neil.

Lookin' great! Nice skin tones and lighting!!

Thanks kidzmom.

Ann McRae

divamum wrote:

Ann -

Firstly, aren't you adorable! I always love seeing SPs - firstly just to get a more "real" face behind the poster than our avatars often allow, and because it's just such fun to see how people see themselves

Of course, it depends on the style you're going for but I think you could actually use a bit less light, or at least fiddle with the ratio a bit - it's nice and bright, but actually TOO bright all over for my taste. Both sides of the face are really evenly lit.... for me (and ymmv of course) I'd like a less even ratio for modelling shadows to add a bit more shape and interest, and for the background to be somewhat less prominent. Remember too, that for most of us gals short lighting is more flattering (keylight playing on side of face away from camera) - you look great in this, but if your subjects have a less balanced face or are carrying extra pounds, a more angled pose with more significant modelling shadows may flatter them more.

Are you shooting individuals or family groups this weekend?

Hi diva! Thanks for the feedback - this weekends shots are both families of 3 - the children are both toddlers. I use lights so rarely I am just happy to
1. not have huge harsh shadows
2. not overexpose

- clearly I would like to get good at this, and appreciate the tips. I will be taking your advise.

ann

Ann McRae

mtbparker wrote:

Isn't portrait shooting fun? I like the shot. I was wondering, is there any way you can get some backlighting in there? It will help separate you from the backdrop a little.

Tom

Hi Tom

Thanks!

We were in our new basement office. It worked, but lets just say it aint a studio space!

About 10x14 feet, futon (which I am leaning on) against the wall, fireplace on adjacent wall, opposite wall is bookcases and then my hubbies desk in the middle of the room. I am amazed that we didn't trip over things!

ann

Ann McRae

Scott_Quier wrote:

It's a nice shot of a quite attractive lady. Are you looking for C&C?

Hi Scott

Thanks!

C&C - maybe, but tips on what else can be done, certainly.

ann

Ann McRae

davev wrote:

It's a nice shot Ann.
I hope you don't mind, I gave it shot at "dressing it up", and maybe dropping one or two years.

Two things about the shot.
1) Try a larger aperture. This was shot at f6.3
2) Move away from the background a bit more, let it blur out some.

I ran this through Portrait Professional, then just a bit of touch up in Camera Raw and CS3.

davev

How are you? Heard you have been unwell???

Thanks - I showed your edit to the hubby and he said ummm-blah, which of course is a good thing ;-)

I actually moved to 6.3 because hubby had been struggling in other shots to include 'all of me', when we were going for more than a head shot.

And as for room to move around, see above!

Take care of Kate. Don't get on her last nerve.

ann

divamum

Ann McRae wrote:

Hi diva! Thanks for the feedback - this weekends shots are both families of 3 - the children are both toddlers. I use lights so rarely I am just happy to
1. not have huge harsh shadows
2. not overexpose

- clearly I would like to get good at this, and appreciate the tips. I will be taking your advise.

ann

:whew After Scott posted asking if you actually WANTED C&C I realised it would have been appropriate for me to do the same, and have been sitting here anxiously checking the thread. So glad you're not offended!

I've only done a few shoots with multiple folks in the shot, but I'll bet you will WANT all that light with three!

Btw, are you using any reflectors of any kind? That'd give you some nice soft bounce so you can turn the fill side back a little bit yet still minimize any hard shadows. Just a thought. Getcher foamboard out.....

And heaven knows I am NO expert - just musing out loud for my own efforts as much as yours (and appreciate the opportunity to do so - it ALWAYS helps my own work to follow threads like these when others are doing similar things to me. I'm eternally grateful to Elaine and the answers she got in her flash bounce thread for the HUGE "aha" moment it brought me as a mere follower..... )

Ann McRae

Gventure wrote:

I like the first one much better. In the first I can see the subject and in the second one I can see what someone thinks the subject should look like. The point to me, whether the client likes it or not (whole other discussion about how far we cave to clients), is that we as photographers should be using our photography skills to capture what is before us - we can use exposures, DOF, lighting etc to produce great shots - and that separates us from the shooter next door. These days, there are too many photoshop experts "creating" whatever it is they want resulting in a final prodcut very far from reality. Why? Because society thinks everyone should have flawless hair, eyes, skin and teeth? I have a strong and growing dislike for that. I think we insult the subject when we essentially say to them "you were not attractive enough so I made you better". Where does that kind of touch up stop? Why not give the subject a longer neck, puffed out boobs, more hair etc (not this particular subject mind you but in general)? And I am not talking about minor touch ups of temporary flaws - like covering a pimple or a drool spot on a baby's clothes. I am talking about essentially creating a different person from the one we shot. OK, enough of my tirade, I like the original.

PS - Ann - I think you did a great job!

Hi

I do appreciate your point of view - and the photoshop/don't photoshop debate will continue forever I think. I like davev's effort. but I have to say I am probably more okay with him doing so than others, as we are friends and have known each other for years (probably why he thought I should knock some years off! hehe).

My shot (well, my hubby pressed the shutter) had not been edited at all but for cloning out one stray hair. For a client, I would have done more and I think that is important.

Thanks

ann

davev

Ann, I sure hope I didn't offend you.
I was just playing with a photo of a friend as I'm sitting here bored out of my mind.

Gventure

davev wrote:

Ann, I sure hope I didn't offend you.
I was just playing with a photo of a friend as I'm sitting here bored out of my mind.

Ann and Dave - I offer an apology if I sounded too strong - there was no tone in my post - I guess I am just grumpy:D

Ann McRae

Hey guys - no offense from either of you!

Davev, you guys have passports now. If your bored, you can always come north for a visit!

davev

Ann McRae wrote:

Hey guys - no offense from either of you!

Davev, you guys have passports now. If your bored, you can always come north for a visit!

Watch out, you may get what you ask for, I hear that there's work in your area for construction guys like me.
Of course spending the winter months, working outside in Edmonton isn't really what I want to do.

Scott_Quier

Ann McRae wrote:

Hi Scott

Thanks!

C&C - maybe, but tips on what else can be done, certainly.

ann

I've tried to keep the point of this to how to improve the lighting with a few other little tid-bits thrown in...

• Posing:
  1. :cry It appears you are leaning toward the camera. This can be a good thing (increases the sense of interest) but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
  2. I like the angle of your shoulders
  3. Turn your face a bit more to your left (camera right) and then turn your eyes back toward the camera. With proper positioning of the key light (see next 2 comments), this will improve the short-lighting affect
• Lighting ratio - You've done a very good job avoiding racoon eye type shadows, not something that is always easy to do. However, I think it might be a good idea to drop the power on the fill by about 1/2 stop or so - this will help with feature definition.
• Key light - move it a bit around to your left and raise is a bit. From the catchlights, it appears to be about level with your nose. If you decrease the fill (as suggested) and keep the key where it is, the shadows on your face will be too lateral. Raising the key will cause more pleasing shadows. Moving it to the left will make the short-lighting easier to accomplish.
• You've done a good job with DOF, but the backdrop still draws too much attention. There's the fact that there's a bit of light spill onto it (move a little further from the background) and it needs a bit of attention from an iron - it's the regular pattern from the folds that really draws attention.
• Fill the frame - For a head-and-shoulders shot, turn the camera to portrait orientation so the model (that's you, beautiful) fill the frame and you don't have the wasted pixels to the sides.
• - I like the fact that this was shot with some significant ambient light around - the pupils of your eyes don't dominate - there's some color there.
• Watch the wardrobe - no you don't have a wardrobe malfunction but the fabric of your blouse is bunched up a bit behind your right ear. That beautiful satin blouse (it appears red really works for you) but that fabric really catches and holds wrinkles. And, given the sheen of the fabric, they really show under lights.
• If you have another light, it might useful to light from behind a bit. This will help seperate you from the background and help releave some of the "photoshop pasted in" look that is appearant on your shoulders.
• Addressing divamum's comment about the brightness of the photo - that's easily correctable in post. I would bring the the general exposure down about 1/2 stop.

mtbparker

Ann McRae wrote:

Hi Tom

Thanks!

We were in our new basement office. It worked, but lets just say it aint a studio space!

About 10x14 feet, futon (which I am leaning on) against the wall, fireplace on adjacent wall, opposite wall is bookcases and then my hubbies desk in the middle of the room. I am amazed that we didn't trip over things!

ann

I can completely relate!

I just spent this past weekend doing portraits as well and quickly realized that even the biggest room in my house isn't big enough for what's required. I went back to read the manuals on recommended spacing and light placement, and clearly I was quite cramped in the space I was working. I had to turn all my flashes to their lowest settings, and even then I was struggling. ( I went as far as taping a dinner napkin over the backlight. ) So now, I have to justify the purchase of a bigger house to my wife just for a good portrait. )

Ann McRae

davev wrote:

Watch out, you may get what you ask for, I hear that there's work in your area for construction guys like me.
Of course spending the winter months, working outside in Edmonton isn't really what I want to do.

I hear you - on both counts!

Ann McRae

Thanks Scott. I will try to digest this.
FWIW, when this shot was taken I was no longer controlling the lights or the camera ;-) Had handed camera to hubby. I have a really hard time sorting out the angle at which to hold my head so as not to have 14 chins, and am really pleased with this angle. I was sitting ont he floor, futon behind me (no backdrop that can be moved or pressed), hubby was very close so no nice bokeh. Really the space sucks as any kind of studio.

Anyway, I recently found a bunch of CDs of old photos - lots and lots of snap shots that are so much fun to see but that I quit taking a while ago. I am now inspired to use my camera more, and experiment and play around.

I do hope to master lighting and posing at some point so appreciate the tips!

ann

Scott_Quier wrote:

I've tried to keep the point of this to how to improve the lighting with a few other little tid-bits thrown in...

• Posing:
  1. :cry It appears you are leaning toward the camera. This can be a good thing (increases the sense of interest) but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
  2. I like the angle of your shoulders
  3. Turn your face a bit more to your left (camera right) and then turn your eyes back toward the camera. With proper positioning of the key light (see next 2 comments), this will improve the short-lighting affect
• Lighting ratio - You've done a very good job avoiding racoon eye type shadows, not something that is always easy to do. However, I think it might be a good idea to drop the power on the fill by about 1/2 stop or so - this will help with feature definition.
• Key light - move it a bit around to your left and raise is a bit. From the catchlights, it appears to be about level with your nose. If you decrease the fill (as suggested) and keep the key where it is, the shadows on your face will be too lateral. Raising the key will cause more pleasing shadows. Moving it to the left will make the short-lighting easier to accomplish.
• You've done a good job with DOF, but the backdrop still draws too much attention. There's the fact that there's a bit of light spill onto it (move a little further from the background) and it needs a bit of attention from an iron - it's the regular pattern from the folds that really draws attention.
• Fill the frame - For a head-and-shoulders shot, turn the camera to portrait orientation so the model (that's you, beautiful) fill the frame and you don't have the wasted pixels to the sides.
• - I like the fact that this was shot with some significant ambient light around - the pupils of your eyes don't dominate - there's some color there.
• Watch the wardrobe - no you don't have a wardrobe malfunction but the fabric of your blouse is bunched up a bit behind your right ear. That beautiful satin blouse (it appears red really works for you) but that fabric really catches and holds wrinkles. And, given the sheen of the fabric, they really show under lights.
• If you have another light, it might useful to light from behind a bit. This will help seperate you from the background and help releave some of the "photoshop pasted in" look that is appearant on your shoulders.
• Addressing divamum's comment about the brightness of the photo - that's easily correctable in post. I would bring the the general exposure down about 1/2 stop.

divamum

Ann -

Not sure if you saw my later post to you because I posted about the same time you did....

Any reflectors? I find I'm almost always happier when some of the light in my shots is reflected either held in the lap to bounce some light up and clear the hard chin shadows/potential racoon eyes, or to one side to provide soft fill. Even when I had access to the college studio and as many lights as I could ever want, I STILL always wound up with a 2- (key/bg) or 3 light (key/bg/hair) that included a reflector. It's partly just individual taste of course, but there's something about reflected light that I always find so pleasing

Ann McRae

divamum wrote:

Ann -

Not sure if you saw my later post to you because I posted about the same time you did....

Any reflectors? I find I'm almost always happier when some of the light in my shots is reflected either held in the lap to bounce some light up and clear the hard chin shadows/potential racoon eyes, or to one side to provide soft fill. Even when I had access to the college studio and as many lights as I could ever want, I STILL always wound up with a 2- (key/bg) or 3 light (key/bg/hair) that included a reflector. It's partly just individual taste of course, but there's something about reflected light that I always find so pleasing

Hi - I sure did. I have reflectors and will take them with me. May also use the biggest reflector ever - it is supposed to snow 20cm tomorrow, so if we do any outside shots, I'll have that!

ann

divamum

Ann McRae wrote:

Hi - I sure did. I have reflectors and will take them with me. May also use the biggest reflector ever - it is supposed to snow 20cm tomorrow, so if we do any outside shots, I'll have that!

ann

Ah, you Canucks.... (actually, it's supposed to snow here this weekend too, and we are MANY miles south of you!).