what crop aspect ratio to use?

jchin

I recently shot class pictures for a Chinese School. Small classes, low budget, etc. etc.

They want me to make available 4x6, 5x7 and 8x10 prints.

What aspect ratio should I crop my images with to give me a good starting point for displaying them on Smugmug?

I know that I may have to manually adjust the crops as they order, depending on size. I don't want to create 3 galleries with the different crop sizes because the parents won't realize that and may just order from the wrong gallery or not order at all if they don't see their print size.

Please give some advise. Thanks.

Andy

Do not pre-crop. Upload your original size and res. Put proof delay on, and you can adjust crops as needed.

jchin

Andy wrote:

Do not pre-crop. Upload your original size and res. Put proof delay on, and you can adjust crops as needed.

But I have to crop already in Lightroom to get rid of the "crap" on the edge of the frame.

I've done a little testing and found that a 2:3 ratio does not crop well to a 4:5 ratio for 8x10 prints later (yes, it all depends on how much "space" I leave at the edge of the images). If I leave too much "edge space", the 4x6 looks "bad". Leave too little "edge space", the 8x10 crops into the subject.

I am just looking for some guideline to help pre-crop to an aspect ratio, not actually making the image smaller, just as I am making my adjustments in LR2, I want to have something that will work "best" (if you can call it that) given these are the 3 sizes I sell the most (and this time they actually asked for all 3 sizes).

Any more recommendations is appreciated.

jchin

Oh, I do intend to use the Proof Delay to adjust any cropping needed for the customer's order. I just want something (aspect ratio) that gives me a little wiggle room for all of these sizes without "chopping off a forehead". Thanks again.

jchin

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I was doing a search on Google and came across this:
http://www.digital-slr-guide.com/aspect-ratio.html

Does this mean a 4:3 ratio (like a 4D print) gives us the most "wiggle room"? By that I mean, whether they choose a 4x6, 5x7 or 8x10, it seems to trim off less drastically than say if we did a 2:3 ratio, where the 8x10 seems to be drastically trimmed.

Oh I would love to hear from the pros as to what they do or recommend.
Thanks again.

[/FONT]

run_kmc

Every image I upload is in a 4:3 ratio. 4x6 will have to be looked at carefully, but the other two sizes usually need little to no adjustments in the crop.

Cameron

No matter which ratio you choose, ANY crop from the original will limit your options more compared to uploading the original. If, as you say, you have "crap" on the edges you don't like, you can also selectively crop upon order fulfillment. If a size is ordered that is much different than your chosen crop ratio you may regret having cropped some of your original image.

jchin

I am uploading an original (after adjustments in Lightroom). My question really is when you crop/rotate, what aspect ratio do you use in Lightroom?

I am looking for a guideline crop aspect ratio, not an absolute. Something that would require the least amount of "buffer" for cropping depending on the print ordered.

Another way to look at it would be. Suppose a customer orders a 4x6, a 5x7 and an 8x10 of the same image all on one order. With Proofing-Delay enabled, what aspect ratio is the image you would replace and re-adjust the crop before sending the order to the lab?

Is there some mathematical or rule of thumb on this? Or am I just wishful thinking?

Elaine

I'm fulfilling an order right now that has 4x6, 5x7 and 8x10 being ordered, and I work from LR2. On my camera (Canon 40D), the "original" aspect ratio = 2x3 = 4x6. As I did some splicing and dicing in CS3, I have some "crap" along the bottom edge that I didn't want displayed to the customer in the gallery. So when I uploaded the base photo from which to provide various crops, I chose the 4x6 (which = 2x3 = original), barely cropped the crap and uploaded the largest/widest option possible. This gave me plenty of room to provide various cropping options, for this particular photo. It IS best to just upload the original photo and crop from that in proof delay, however. That provides the most flexibility. The edge I needed to remove was along the bottom, which is different than a side. Just play with the crop tool in LR and see what your options are.

Hope that helps.

timk519

another option would be to create multiple virtual images from the original, crop each to suit, upload them, and then on SM rename them to "image-name-8x10" etc.

Elaine

timk519 wrote:

another option would be to create multiple virtual images from the original, crop each to suit, upload them, and then on SM rename them to "image-name-8x10" etc.

I did something similar...I cropped in LR, chose "custom name - original file number" when exporting, and I made the custom name = the crop size (4x6 - 1427). However, as I didn't upload different sizes and images for the customer to proof (I happened to show them only an 8x10), they ordered all their sizes from the 8x10. So, I had to replace that one image with an image that would work for their entire order. I found the 4x6 to work best. Are you suggesting there is a different way to do this? I'm not quite sure I follow what you're saying to do?

As I understand it, the crop sizes in LR are ratios rather than cropping to that particular size, so if an order is placed for an 8x12 from a 4x6 image, all is well.

timk519

The idea as I'd posted was to crop virtual images to suit in LR and then upload to SM, and the customer would order appropriately. From the sounds of what you wrote, you've tried that but things didn't work out as planned.

If they ordered all their prints from the 8x10 upload, then they had to get through SM's 'crop' functionality to complete the order. Since they can crop their own, I'd suggest uploading your best image and letting them use that to get all their pics from.

Elaine

timk519 wrote:

The idea as I'd posted was to crop virtual images to suit in LR and then upload to SM, and the customer would order appropriately. From the sounds of what you wrote, you've tried that but things didn't work out as planned.

If they ordered all their prints from the 8x10 upload, then they had to get through SM's 'crop' functionality to complete the order. Since they can crop their own, I'd suggest uploading your best image and letting them use that to get all their pics from.

Yep, we're on the same page. When I saw your post, I was just hoping maybe I was missing something and there was another (better) approach.

jchin

timk519 wrote:

another option would be to create multiple virtual images from the original, crop each to suit, upload them, and then on SM rename them to "image-name-8x10" etc.

The problem is that the buyer may not select the proper image when placing their order. They may select the 2:3 crop and order a 8x10, which right now seems to be my biggest problem as it seems to cut off the most from the sides.

I am looking for some middle ground so the customer doesn't have to think when they click to order prints. Yet gives me the ability to use the same image to fill an order for all 3 sizes of the same image, without having issues.

Guess I'll have to play around some more with tests and see what works. So far, any image with a lot of "fluff" around, I don't have to worry as I can crop when they place the order. It is those shots where it is already tight that I am concerned.

jchin

timk519 wrote:

The idea as I'd posted was to crop virtual images to suit in LR and then upload to SM, and the customer would order appropriately. From the sounds of what you wrote, you've tried that but things didn't work out as planned.

If they ordered all their prints from the 8x10 upload, then they had to get through SM's 'crop' functionality to complete the order. Since they can crop their own, I'd suggest uploading your best image and letting them use that to get all their pics from.

My problem is compounded by customers who do not adjust the crop when they order. I had someone order a 8x10 from my 2:3 ratio uploaded original. It was a vertical photo and the 8x10 cropped the top of the person's head. Thank goodness for Proof-Delay. I adjusted it for them and they didn't even know it.

timk519

jchin wrote:

My problem is compounded by customers who do not adjust the crop when they order. I had someone order a 8x10 from my 2:3 ratio uploaded original. It was a vertical photo and the 8x10 cropped the top of the person's head. Thank goodness for Proof-Delay. I adjusted it for them and they didn't even know it.

oh-my-goodness...

Elaine

jchin wrote:

My problem is compounded by customers who do not adjust the crop when they order. I had someone order a 8x10 from my 2:3 ratio uploaded original. It was a vertical photo and the 8x10 cropped the top of the person's head. Thank goodness for Proof-Delay. I adjusted it for them and they didn't even know it.

Uh-huh...my own mother has done this...back before I had a pro account and proof delay. Thankfully, Smug fixed it by sending her a new print, even though it wasn't their fault.