2-speedlight High Key (c&c)

divamum

All C&C welcomed!

Inspired by Ivar's latest challengette and also needing a holiday-ish picture of The Child to circulate, I persuaded her to throw on some assorted creams and whites I found and sit for me.

Last time I tried HK I totally forgot to flag the bg light, so got oodles of spill and flare. This time I not only remembered to pay attention that (yay me!), but also at last have a real lightstand, so could experiment with a different frontlight configuration. I essentially set this up as a sort of clamshell lighting - lightstand with high 24" shoothru and the 430 ex over and behind my head pointing down onto subject and a foamboard reflector on the music stand in front of subject to fill shadows (like a posing table/reflector combo). The other speedlight was on the floor pointed back up at the background.

Are these close to a "real" HK look? I'm not really sure how to process it other than to try and make the various shades of white as bright as I can without blowing any of them out (and how do I *measure* whether a highlight is blown, rather than relying on eyeballing it?). Am I on the right track? All comments welcomed (lighting and otherwise). Thanks!

These were all taken with the 50mm 1.4 (I'm REALLY liking this as a portrait lens where space is tight!) 420ex as bg light and 430ex in front. (There was some ambient from assorted lamps in the living room, but at 1/200 they shouldn't have had much impact?)

(Looking at these here I'm now questioning my white balances, although in LR I thought they looked fine. Hmm.)

1


2.


3


4

adbsgicom

Really nicely done, Diva!! Only one I don't like is #2. I don't think it is a really good pose/angle. The others are just wonerful!

toddb

agreed w/Andrew
Nice work -- I really need to understand lighting better. Favorite is No. 1. Agree with Andrew on No. 2 -- just doesn't feel like the most flattering pose. Great pics - great model - really pretty eyes.

anonymouscuban

Well, I'm no expert but I just bought my first set up studio lights, stands and umbrellas (thanks Nikolai!) and I have been reading up on High Key because I want to enter the challenge in the people forum for my first attempt at a real portrait shot with a good light setup.

There are a bunch of different opinions of what High Key truly is from what I have found on my interenet research. Most people think it is the typical overexposed, blown out highlight pick you see and most of the examples I've seen are all done in PS in post. However, if I understand the correct definition is that your midtones are pushed up to a high key and what your typical high key highlights should be are pushed even higher. BUT, you shouldn't have any blowout of your highlights. Further, a true high key image is all done through lighting and proper exposure, not really in post.

What I have gattered is that you background should be true white, not any shade of gray. Further, you should have very little shadows and your midtones should be pushed.

It's hard for me to really tell on my monitors how your images are because they are both wacked (driving me nuts trying to calibrate them). However, they all look very close to what a High Key image looks like based on the examples I've seen. The only thing I can say that may improve them is that you may try bumping the light on the backgroun up. The light seems a bit uneven towards the edges in some and a bit off white. Again, the off white thing maybe my monitors so someone else will have to confirm that.

Good job though.

Nikolai

anonymouscuban wrote:

Well, I'm no expert but I just bought my first set up studio lights, stands and umbrellas (thanks Nikolai!) and I have been reading up on High Key because I want to enter the challenge in the people forum for my first attempt at a real portrait shot with a good light setup.

There are a bunch of different opinions of what High Key truly is from what I have found on my internet research. Most people think it is the typical overexposed, blown out highlight pick you see and most of the examples I've seen are all done in PS in post. However, if I understand the correct definition is that your midtones are pushed up to a high key and what your typical high key highlights should be are pushed even higher. BUT, you shouldn't have any blowout of your highlights. Further, a true high key image is all done through lighting and proper exposure, not really in post.

What I have gathered is that you background should be true white, not any shade of gray. Further, you should have very little shadows and your midtones should be pushed.

It's hard for me to really tell on my monitors how your images are because they are both wacked (driving me nuts trying to calibrate them). However, they all look very close to what a High Key image looks like based on the examples I've seen. The only thing I can say that may improve them is that you may try bumping the light on the background up. The light seems a bit uneven towards the edges in some and a bit off white. Again, the off white thing maybe my monitors so someone else will have to confirm that.

Good job though.

Alex,
(first of all - pleasure doing business with you:-)
set your studio strobes with the umbrellas in reflective position (but remove the reflectors!) on the sides at an angle, so most of it would go to the BG, but just a tag (you'd have to experiment how big the "tad" should be:-) would hit the model in a rim light manner.
Then use your speed light (as a slave) for the main and any kind of reflector (real one or white poster board) as a fill (side or clam). The gear you have should do you fine for headshots and up to whole upper body (albeit the latter might be a stretch)
Good luck!

divamum

Thanks for the replies and kind comments - good to know they're reading pretty well on other monitors. I'm still playing with processing these, so there may be other versions to post at some point....

I'd agree about the pose on 2, as well - not the most flattering, now that I look at it again.

Nikolai wrote:

Alex,
(first of all - pleasure doing businss with you:-)
set your studio strobes with the umbrellas in refelctive position (but remove the reflectors!) on the sides at an angle, so most of it would go to the BG, but just a tag (you'd have to experiment how big the "tad" should be:-) would hit the model in a rim light manner.
Then use your speed light (as a slave) for the main and any kind of reflector (real one or white poster board) as a fill (side or clam). The gear you have should do you fine for headshots and upto whole upper body (albeit the latter might be a stretch)
Good luck!

Question, Nik (and glad you've chimed in - I was hoping you would ): I thought when doing "real" high key (ie, with multiple bg lights rather than my rather sad single little speedlight) you flagged them so they didn't spill back onto the subject, or am I misunderstanding you? Spill was my worst enemy last time I tried this, so just trying to understand how one would best manipulate the lights?

Nikolai

divamum wrote:

Question, Nik (and glad you've chimed in - I was hoping you would ): I thought when doing "real" high key (ie, with multiple bg lights rather than my rather sad single little speedlight) you flagged them so they didn't spill back onto the subject, or am I misunderstanding you? Spill was my worst enemy last time I tried this, so just trying to understand how one would best manipulate the lights?

In HK spill is not as bad a foe as it is in any pretty much any other lighting scenario. You just need to differentiate a "controlled spill" vs "uncontrolled one". Controlled one, as in my suggested scenario, can be your friend, since it can also play the role of rim lights, thus you don't need to have extra lights. And since the idea of the BG light in HK scenario is to overpower everything else, you can borrow a little power for the other purposes.. Naturally it requires a careful position of both the lights and modifiers (in Alex's case - umbrellas), as well as the model and the background, but it's doable. I'd personally use softboxes, since they are easier to control, but he doesn't have them yet (and for your speedlights softboxes + speedrings are much harder to come by than the umbrellas+brackets).

HTH

BriShay

it is just my taste...but i'd like to see softer skin...

divamum

Nikolai wrote:

In HK spill is not as bad a foe as it is in any pretty much any other lighting scenario. You just need to differentiate a "controlled spill" vs "uncontrolled one". Controlled one, as in my suggested scenario, can be your friend, since it can also play the role of rim lights, thus you don't need to have extra lights. And since the idea of the BG light in HK scenario is to overpower everything else, you can borrow a little power for the other purposes.. Naturally it requires a careful position of both the lights and modifiers (in Alex's case - umbrellas), as well as the model and the background, but it's doable. I'd personally use softboxes, since they are easier to control, but he doesn't have them yet (and for your speedlights softboxes + speedrings are much harder to come by than the umbrellas+brackets).

HTH

Thanks Nik - I think that makes sense. One last question: do those bg lights get placed down low, or also at head level, just pointing at the bg instead of the subject? Tx!!

Brishay wrote:

it is just my taste...but i'd like to see softer skin...

Can you explain what you mean by "softer"? She's only 11, so her skin is still mostly still child-smooth, although she does have some freckles. Is there something else I'm not seeing? Tx!

Nikolai

divamum wrote:

Thanks Nik - I think that makes sense. One last question: do those bg lights get placed down low, or also at head level, just pointing at the bg instead of the subject? Tx!!

Level or a bit higher.

kidzmom

I LOVE LOVE LOVE #1. That is your card right there!!! She looks beautiful! I also really like #4! They are all cute, but I like the eyes the best in those 2 shots. You did a GREAT JOB. One day if I ever get some flashes I can learn from you. Thanks for sharing! Your dd must just love these! SO precious!

divamum

Nikolai wrote:

Level or a bit higher.

Thanks Nik!

Kidzmom, you are too kind - thanks for the nice response!

Here's another version of #1 - I re-set white/black points to brighten it up a bit. I'm pleased that I haven't really had to do any significant adjustments to these - I could have afforded to blast the background with even more light since to me it still has a very slight gray cast (I have to see if I can figure out a way of eking more out of the speedlights), but I was pleased with the skintone exposures and variation in whites (sweater, hat, eye-whites and bg are all different, and should be), so I guess I shouldn't grumble too much - work in progress. Does this look too cool now?

kidzmom

This is EVEN better than the original. VERY nice...less creamy and more white looking to me. I love this picture very much!!!!

bloomphotog

I liked #1 to start with, and the new version is an improvement. Not a big fan of the other shots, but #1 casts a pretty large shadow, no pun intended.

Agnieszka

I really like #1 & 3. I think it's not only the pose, but also the position of the hat in #2 & #4.

Nicely explained anonymouscuban! I tried to explain high key to somebody the other day and didn't do as well as you

I'd also push the mid tones & contrast a bit, very nice photos though

dlplumer

I really like #1 Diva. I might repair the lower lip (looks a little chapped) a tad to make her look even more beautiful.

Agnieszka

I hope you don't mind ... I played around with your pic a bit )

(I wanted to attach it, but dgrin didn't let me upload my triple-pic, so let me know if you want me to take it down ...)

I like the middle one best, but I guess everybody will have a different opinion about high key.

(p.s. I also did some skin smoothening & sharpened her eyes a bit ...)

divamum

You guys are awesome - thanks for all the helpful feedback and kind comments!

Agnieszka, I'm so honoured you would take the time to mess around with my shot - THANK YOU! It's interesting to see the take of somebody who wasn't there - you've taken it in a direction much further from reality than I did, with a more porcelain skin finish, definitely paler skin/desat and much more of a photographer's-photo look which is really intriguing to me (and I'd agree about the middle one - that's probably the one I like best of the three too). I'm not sure it's quite where I was going with it - I find the desat on the lips a little vampirical (or maybe that's just because I have a Twilight-obsessed tween ) but you've certainly shown me some fresh ideas to explore - can't wait to play around with it further now that you've demonstrated what other alternatives are out there (and yeah, I had already started working on a version with some eye sharpening/more eye brightening, but hadn't uploaded it yet so linked to this one in semi-error... whoops!).

Thanks everybody - I'll probably be back with subsequent tries

Oh, and re the flattering/not flattering poses - I think it's as simple as hair loose vs hair under the hat. When it's tucked back like that it makes her face much rounder and one loses the cheekbone-to-chin line, which is the thing that probably most defines her face (other than her eyes). Very interesting to me to see how angles and small adjustments can change the final look so drastically.... (yeah, Swartzy, I'm probably overthinking again, but indulge me - it pays off eventually after many months of mulling it over when I realise I don't HAVE to think that hard )

VayCayMom

adbsgicom wrote:

Really nicely done, Diva!! Only one I don't like is #2. I don't think it is a really good pose/angle. The others are just wonerful!

I agree, number one made me go awwwwww.... just loved loved it, number two not a great pose for her. Number one is awesome !!!!!

Elaine

Diva,

I love your re-work of #1! Gorgeous! The upper right corner does have a cooler tone than the rest of it, but I love all the creamy tones. I think it's not only the hair loose or hair tucked that makes a difference. Agnieszka pointed out the hat position...perhaps that style of hat just looks like it should sit lower on the forehead/brow? Anyhow, I like her position, expression and your conversion in #4 as well.
I haven't used my flash in a few days...now I've got a hankerin'!

adbsgicom

I could go with either 1 or 2 of Angie's versions, as well as the source. The middle one is just starting to lose definition on her nose on my monitor. The third loses too much of the deep brown of her lovely eyes and a little more nose definition. All in all, I'd go with the first of the three or the source image.

ivar

Very nice, Diva I prefer your reworded version over the first ones.
Angie has made a different kind of photo from yours; Out of hers I prefer the 2nd one, or maybe even the third.

divamum

Thanks everybody! It's funny, this session was just a "let's see what I can come up with since we have a few minutes" kind of quickie, and everybody who has seen it (IRL as well as here) just loves #1. I'm not complaining, mind you, but it still blows my m ind that I CAN get a decent shot pretty much "on demand" now (a year ago that would have been hours of mental prep, more hours trying to mcgyver some lights and bg material into something useable, and even more hours trying to remember what the heck to do once I set it all up!). It's nice to prove to myself that I really have learned a thing or two... thanks to you guys!

hoyinsiu

simple but nice

divamum

Thanks!

Here's the most recent version (fwiw, brighter/sharper eyes, dodging of catclights, slight lifting of midtones, skin/lip smoothing). This one's been fun to play with - thanks for all the feedback, ideas and kind words!

adbsgicom

Print it!

aktse

LOVE this version. Print it!

D'Buggs

There's the rabbit!

Elaine

Beautiful!!! It's a winner!

Caspian

[Are these close to a "real" HK look? I'm not really sure how to process it other than to try and make the various shades of white as bright as I can without blowing any of them out (and how do I *measure* whether a highlight is blown, rather than relying on eyeballing it?). Am I on the right track? All comments welcomed (lighting and otherwise). Thanks!]

Does your camera give a "Highlights" view? My Nikons (D90 and D100) will show the blown highlights as flashing black areas. I find that more helpful than the histogram in most cases for determining whether I have blown the highlights.

ivar

Caspian wrote:

[Are these close to a "real" HK look? I'm not really sure how to process it other than to try and make the various shades of white as bright as I can without blowing any of them out (and how do I *measure* whether a highlight is blown, rather than relying on eyeballing it?). Am I on the right track? All comments welcomed (lighting and otherwise). Thanks!]

Does your camera give a "Highlights" view? My Nikons (D90 and D100) will show the blown highlights as flashing black areas. I find that more helpful than the histogram in most cases for determining whether I have blown the highlights.

I'm not sure if there is a "real" HK look.

As far as I know there is no '"real" HK look. High-key photos usually have high exposure values (not overexposed), low contrast and lack of/few shadows.