Something changed, still a bug (even bigger one now)

DeVerm

I am starting to wonder if this is the right place to report bugs, or may be I'm already in the ignore lists but that sounds silly as I am a customer... But I've been waiting for 4 days without any reaction on three or four bug reports now. I had expected at least an acknowledgement that I exist on one of them...

So, I decided to test again. This is the "replace while upload" issue. Uploaded a photo, works. Change the IPTC caption in IMatch and upload again with "replace" option set. It fails, but very different from my earlier report:

- first test using the standard java based uploader: after upload it verifies, shows an error, uploads again, verifies, shows an error, uploads again, verifies and... accepts it. However, the photo isn't replaced, the upload is just lost somewhere in cyberspace. Check the upload log: only the initial upload is recorded as successful, no errors and no replacing.
So, it gets uploaded three times without effect and without an error message. Pls. don't tell me it's my ISP because there are no errors when I'm uploading new images.

- Second test using SendToSmugMug: image is recognized as already there, select "replace", upload. Image uploads and is accepted. But again, image isn't replaced and lost in cyberspace and no log entry is made at all.

This bug basically means that I can't change my captions or keywords anymore. I can't first delete and re-upload because that breaks the links from external sites.

I sure hope this msg doesn't get lost in cyberspace also...
thanks,
Nick.

docwalker

Nick,

I promise you are not being ignored. Bugs are my baby and I do read each and every post. I may not comment or acknowledge them right away but they are being investigated. In some cases the bugs are duplicates and are already reported but I need to double check to make sure.

Once a bug is reported, it is in the hands of the programmers. I cannot give status reports as it takes time for them to fix the problem, test it, and then get it pushed out to the live site.

This last week has been pretty rough for me personally and that has caused the delay. I am hoping to get caught up over the next few days. I caught a cold that has kicked my butt. I am desperately trying to get over it because my wife is due to deliver our first child any day.

I just reread your bug report and I am going to ask you contact the help desk with this one. I think from what you describe is a connection issue. You will get faster service from the help desk.

Try running the line quality test for us and send the results to the desk: http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/3385500/

timk519

docwalker wrote:

I caught a cold that has kicked my butt. I am desperately trying to get over it because my wife is due to deliver our first child any day.

Congrats!

DeVerm

docwalker wrote:

I promise you are not being ignored. Bugs are my baby and I do read each and every post. I may not comment or acknowledge them right away but they are being investigated. In some cases the bugs are duplicates and are already reported but I need to double check to make sure.

Oh my, a real Scotsmen ;-)
Sorry to hear about the cold, make sure it ain't the flue! And a baby coming, man I feel for you ;-)

I just reread your bug report and I am going to ask you contact the help desk with this one. I think from what you describe is a connection issue. You will get faster service from the help desk.

See, I knew you were gonna ask that. I am doing it but don't think it's work. We are on a boat, moored in the jungle (!!) in Panama, the one in Central America. I can't ping nor change the firewall etc. etc.

But as I wrote before, I can upload a thousand photo's without any trouble. The trouble starts when it is a duplicate. I already read about this in another thread and it appears that the image will only be replaced when the image is different. I tested that, run the image through a sharpening filter and indeed, that results in acceptance and the new image shows up. But when only the IPTC headers are different, the image is just tossed away.

I'll switch to Email when I get the test results... waiting in that queue now.

thanks!
Nick.

docwalker

Nick,

Ok I see now what you are talking about. Yes, we actually check the checksum data for the image to determine if it is a duplicate. I think the keywords etc are in the Exif side car and are not part of the checksum. Only when you make a change to the image will the duplicate detection be triggered. I know that our guys are aware of the issue and they are trying to decide what the best course of action is for it. thanks for pointing it out so that it made sense to me

DeVerm

docwalker wrote:

Ok I see now what you are talking about. Yes, we actually check the checksum data for the image to determine if it is a duplicate. I think the keywords etc are in the Exif side car and are not part of the checksum. Only when you make a change to the image will the duplicate detection be triggered. I know that our guys are aware of the issue and they are trying to decide what the best course of action is for it. thanks for pointing it out so that it made sense to me

Okay, great we both know now what is happening ;-)

So tell me, in the mean time, how do I upload my images with edited keywords and captions? I have 2,370 image files (!!) ready to go on-line with a great, tight keyword regime and waited for the fix for stopping keywords from file names polluting the keyword index, which I tested and that works! I really hope I'm not going to hear that it is impossible to do something so basic as replace an image file???

I do know the ultimate solution to this: when you detect that the image didn't change (like you do now) but the user opted to replace it anyway (instead of skipping or allowing duplicates which are the other two choices but SM now just skips regardless of the user's choice), you can ignore the image part and just replace the keywords and caption (because the user requested to replace it while uploading), while keeping all image data the same.

This whole feature is flawed of course: if I wanted to have duplicates skipped, I would choose that option: skip duplicates. What SM now does, is skip duplicates always and only allow to replace a file when it contains a different image so that file actually is not a duplicate, it only has the same filename. Replace means replace it, not skip it. Sorry for all this but I just spent more than 100 hours working on those images and now find that I can't put them on-line without breaking the links from external sites. It really doesn't amuse me....

So, what happens if I select to allow duplicates, upload a batch and remove the "old" files after that? I do remember that the new image gets a "-1" suffix in the link URL? After removing the old version, do links without the "-1" suffix work and produce an image from the new file? If that works, I could select all the images in a gallery for deletion but hold clicking the "delete" button until after the upload finishes....

Does the API allow one to replace just the caption and keywords for an image without uploading an image? Are there utils available that can do that?

I just can't believe I can't replace image files. I guess in the mean time, I'll try and see if I have galleries without links from other sites and replace those...

Hope we can work this out soon,
Nick.

docwalker

Nick,

I am afraid that there is only a couple options at this point.

1. Delete the photos from the site and reupload them. You would then need to update the external links. Not practical I know...

2. Modify the photos in some way that changes the checksum. Maybe apply a sharpening of .01% or something tiny like that. Or adjust the pixel resolution by 1 pixel. Then upload. That tiny change should be enough to trigger the change. Most photo editors offer a batch change option for things like this.

3. Adjust the keywords on the site. Again, not real practical and duplicate work.

I know that this is annoying but consider the duplicates feature as version one. With your feedback, we will improve the system in the future.

DeVerm

docwalker wrote:

1. Delete the photos from the site and reupload them. You would then need to update the external links. Not practical I know...

I would consider that when it would be possible.... but you can't do that in forums because you quickly loose the ability to edit a post. I could do it on my blog and accept broken links in my forum posts.

2. Modify the photos in some way that changes the checksum. Maybe apply a sharpening of .01% or something tiny like that. Or adjust the pixel resolution by 1 pixel. Then upload. That tiny change should be enough to trigger the change. Most photo editors offer a batch change option for things like this.

That is a viable option. I am going to test that further. The obvious solution would be to XOR one pixel in a corner. I'll first test if that's enough to trigger the replace code and see if I can find an IMatch script that can do that, or try the sharpening thing. It'll mean an extra copy of every image for SmugMug in my library though.

I know that this is annoying but consider the duplicates feature as version one. With your feedback, we will improve the system in the future.

Yes, I get the feeling that SM started without the sharing features and many users (pro's?) still don't use sharing. But with sharing in the picture, it means that those links must be maintained for all but a hard delete of an image.

I am trying out the API now as I found the function to update just the caption and keywords. The only thing slowing me down with that is the Basic language used in IMatch (I come from Pascal and C) and yet another run-time environment to grasp. But I'm sure I will have that up and running in a couple of days and that would be the preferred way because it minimizes data transfer and CPU on SM.
I am new in this whole game after deciding to tackle the mess of our photo collection and selected IMatch for it's scripting when I found out that SM alone wouldn't work and it looks like I made a good choice. But I think it's only a few who can program so the functionality within SM is needed too.

thanks for the help,
cheers,
Nick.

DeVerm

Work around using the API
Okay, I programmed a script for IMatch that checks if the image is already on SM. If it is, it will update the caption and keywords; if it isn't there yet, it will upload it.

I just took the IMatch-SM scripts and worked from there. I am working with the community on the IMatch forum to publish the new script.

cheers,
Nick.