I really need to get a background - C&C welcomed

00SS

Ok - here are a few Christmas shots that were to be used for greeting cards. any feedback appreciated.

#1 - wish mom would have looked on this one


#2


#3 - just one of the out-takes that i liked and converted to bw


#4 - from another shoot - went to their house and they wanted that background :dunno


#5 - and they wanted a shot of there dog cali


all were shot using my D80 - 17-50 tammy or my nifty 50 with a diffused sb600.

thanks for looking
Devin.

adbsgicom

Nice images.

The color seems very, very blue in the first one. The color in the second seems spot on though. Can you bring up the blacks, at least around the shirts some? Her sweater disappears into his and then her hand pops back out.

I really like the third because the tree takes on a very different feel of being full of light. Very cool.

#4 looks very magenta here, and lacks a certain amount of pop/saturation. Was this done with flash or what? Their pose is very pleasing, though.

#5. Sweet pooch.

Qarik

1st shot..doesn't work on several levels. 1st the mom not looking into the camera kill sthe shot off the bat, 2nd the blue cast andrew mentioned, 3rd the dark clothes have lost all detail, 4th the background and subjects have different WB it appears, lastly the vignette is not working at all.

2nd shot direct flash is leaving shadows and lighitng is pretty flat. The tree color looks unatural and the tree is over powering the subjects. Agian the black shirt loses all detail. Nothing really going on compositiionally either

However the dog shot is nice!

00SS

adbsgicom wrote:

Nice images.

The color seems very, very blue in the first one. The color in the second seems spot on though. Can you bring up the blacks, at least around the shirts some? Her sweater disappears into his and then her hand pops back out.

I really like the third because the tree takes on a very different feel of being full of light. Very cool.

#4 looks very magenta here, and lacks a certain amount of pop/saturation. Was this done with flash or what? Their pose is very pleasing, though.

#5. Sweet pooch.

Hiya Andrew - thanks for commenting. I think I really need to re-visit these, as I was so trying to make the blinds in the back non obtrusive (badly) and in the process lost some more important aspects. I'll have another go on all of them. On #4 I was going for a de-saturated look intentionally, but agree that it lost most of the pop. Drawing board again :bash

00SS

Qarik wrote:

1st shot..doesn't work on several levels. 1st the mom not looking into the camera kill sthe shot off the bat, 2nd the blue cast andrew mentioned, 3rd the dark clothes have lost all detail, 4th the background and subjects have different WB it appears, lastly the vignette is not working at all.

2nd shot direct flash is leaving shadows and lighitng is pretty flat. The tree color looks unatural and the tree is over powering the subjects. Agian the black shirt loses all detail. Nothing really going on compositiionally either

However the dog shot is nice!

Hi Qarik - thanks for the feedback. as i was just saying to andrew is i'm going to go back to the drawing board for re-processing them. I found it difficult to bounce or get the lighting i wanted with the off camera flash as a slave.. (think i need to take a strobe class). I really wanted to see the details of the tree's lights.. and not just 'flash results' .

and hey, at least you like the pooch

I took these at lunch today.. any better?

Qarik

much better..still not good yet imo heh. I still get the blue cast in 1,3 ..especially in 3. Check the top of the dudes head. I think a warmer WB would help.

00SS

Qarik wrote:

much better..still not good yet imo heh. I still get the blue cast in 1,3 ..especially in 3. Check the top of the dudes head. I think a warmer WB would help.

Hmm.. didn't appear to have that much of a blue tint when i exported it.. maybe need to calibrate my monitor. in any event - i don't get better unless i keep practicing. thanks for the input

heatherfeather

00SS wrote:

maybe need to calibrate my monitor.

Yes... do that asap! Seriously blue.

Caspian

I am just learning this stuff and when I look at your pictures I see some things that I have dealt with recently. I have a few thoughts of what I would do differently next time if these were my shots.
- Choose a less cluttered background. The tree in the first two shots is way too busy and takes over the shot. You can communicate that it is Christmas through the wardrobe or the design of the card itself if these are Christmas card shots. If the couple suggested the tree as a background, you might suggest that a wall or other area might be better.
- If they insist on the tree, you might pull them forward more and rely on the shallow DOF of the lens to put the background out of focus and put more emphasis on the subjects. By under exposing the background, you may get the effect you want from the tree lights.
- Use the review function and delete aggressively. You don't need to wish that mom was looking at the camera. You can see that she wasn't looking and retake the picture. The wonder of digital over film is that you can see what you are shooting and retake it if you need to. You can also over shoot and delete the bad ones without burning a fortune in film and processing. You will get more efficient with experience and need to take fewer pictures to capture the really good ones.
- I prefer the poses where the eyes are at about the same level. The dad is so much taller that getting him to sit was a good decision.
- I like the second set better. The couple looks more comfortable. The guy either has small eyes or is squinting because of the light. Anything you can do to get the eyes open would help. If that is as wide as they get, you might try getting in for a tighter shot so that you can see his eyes. They look like they are a nice blue if he had them open.
- The SB600 does a nice job with balanced fill, but I have had to be careful not to allow it to wash all shadow and flatten the light too much. I now try to back it off a stop or two so that it provides some pop in the eyes but does not overpower the available light. I am also looking for a reflector to enlarge the size of the catch lights it makes. When you use it straight on, it doesn't provide much sparkle in the eyes, just a sharp dot.
- Finally, I agree with the other comments on color balance. I picked up a fairly inexpensive device to calibrate my monitor and it helped a bunch. Now what I post and print looks like what I see on my screen.

Hope this helps. Keep posting.
David

Gary752

Caspian wrote:

I picked up a fairly inexpensive device to calibrate my monitor and it helped a bunch. Now what I post and print looks like what I see on my screen.

Hope this helps. Keep posting.
David

Hi David! Could you elaborate on this inexpensive device to calibrate the monitor?

GaryB

Caspian

BroPhoto wrote:

Hi David! Could you elaborate on this inexpensive device to calibrate the monitor?

GaryB

I use the Pantone Huey Pro to calibrate my monitor. It cost $130 a couple years ago. You can spend more and get a device that will calibrate your monitor and create printer profiles. I found that once my monitor was calibrated, I was able to get my printer adjusted to reflect what I saw on the screen and I was able to adjust the brightness of my camera LCD to match what I saw on the screen. If I started printing my own pictures for clients, I would upgrade to a device that would calibrate the printer too. But for now, this works just fine. It was well worth the investment.

Photometric

Caspian wrote:

- The SB600 does a nice job with balanced fill, but I have had to be careful not to allow it to wash all shadow and flatten the light too much. I now try to back it off a stop or two so that it provides some pop in the eyes but does not overpower the available light. I am also looking for a reflector to enlarge the size of the catch lights it makes. When you use it straight on, it doesn't provide much sparkle in the eyes, just a sharp dot.
Hope this helps. Keep posting.
David

I agree with David completely, if you let the sb600 run on it's own you will get blown out detail, either control it through the exposure dial for the flash, or the camera's exposure manager, or both. If that doesn't work, then switch to camera manual and work around with the aperture or shutter speed to control it's effect. Unless you have a light meter, then take your reading, adjust the flash in manual and snap away.

Joe Dukovac

The other thing you may want to get yourself is a grey card. Many manufacturers make white balance cards, but I personally use WhiBal cards (just do a google search for WhiBal). My White balance is pretty spot on when using them.

I use a SpyderPro 3 for my monitor calibration tool. It cost me $199.00 CAD, and I think in the States it goes for about $149.00 USD if I remember my photograper buddy in Florida telling correctly.

With those two things, you won't have much issues with your pictures and white balance.

Take Care,
Joe

divamum

I actually use an ordinary Huey (not the pro version) recommended by Jeffreaux2, and purchased from another helpful dgrinner who'd switched to mac and changed systems.

While I still need to watch contrast/lightness when I'm preparing prints (both of my screens are a little brighter than prints, even when I use service/printer profiles andsoft proof), colour has been dead on, confirmed by responses from folks using other computers. Definitely a worthwhile investment.

As for backdrops - if you're serious about wanting one, I have to say that I'm really liking my black/white reversible popup background http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/303035-REG/Botero_C03757__037_Collapsible_Reversible_Background.html

From what I've read in comments some of the more expensive ones fight wrinkles a little better, but this one has worked out just fine for me - I steam out the worst, and even if I don't steam it as long as I light it right and pull the subject forward enough that it's not crisply in focus the wrinkles don't show at all, or are minimal enough to be easily removed in photoshop. For under $100 for incredibly portable white/black/grey backgrounds (it's easy to get grey from either side depending how you light it), it was definitely worth the investment.

Caspian

Thanks for the lead on the portable backdrop. That is a great idea. What do you use to light it?

divamum

Speedlights - that's all I have at home! I only have two, as well - with a 3rd to use for backgrounds, it will be much easier. I actually have an old flash from pre-digital days that, if I can find an optical slave that will work with it, I can use for HK background lighting since I'll want maximum power on it for every shot.

But I digress.....

Here are a couple of samples:

1 I really needed to blast the bg with more light in this one, but I was in a hurry and forgot to up the ratio on the one on the floor pointed back at it. Hence it's a tiny bit cool/grey rather than the HK pure white I intended (oops). That said, it looks like snow and everybody has loved it (made a FABULOUS print as well - just got my copies, and it is going on my wall as soon as I find a frame for itt!)



2. black side (easy to let the light falloff do the work and turn it pure black)


3 Really bad tosser of a shot, but shows how the black side can be turned to grey quite easily.

Gary752

Check out Backdrop Outlet. They have just about everything you would want, and at a decent price. They even provide backdrop rentals as well. I have purchased from them a few times and I give them a . If you sign up to get their sales flier via email, you will be notified of every sale they have, which is usually once a week, sometimes more often. Right now they have something different on sale every day for the holidays.

GaryB

Caspian

The first one is a great high key shot. I love the way her brown eyes pop. Do you use the speedlights wired or wireless? I guess I am asking, what is your set up? I shoot Nikon and have one SB600. It is encouraging to me to think that I could do decent portraits with only one other light and this simple back drop.

00SS

Caspian wrote:

I am just learning this stuff and when I look at your pictures I see some things that I have dealt with recently. I have a few thoughts of what I would do differently next time if these were my shots.
- Choose a less cluttered background. The tree in the first two shots is way too busy and takes over the shot. You can communicate that it is Christmas through the wardrobe or the design of the card itself if these are Christmas card shots. If the couple suggested the tree as a background, you might suggest that a wall or other area might be better.
- If they insist on the tree, you might pull them forward more and rely on the shallow DOF of the lens to put the background out of focus and put more emphasis on the subjects. By under exposing the background, you may get the effect you want from the tree lights.
- Use the review function and delete aggressively. You don't need to wish that mom was looking at the camera. You can see that she wasn't looking and retake the picture. The wonder of digital over film is that you can see what you are shooting and retake it if you need to. You can also over shoot and delete the bad ones without burning a fortune in film and processing. You will get more efficient with experience and need to take fewer pictures to capture the really good ones.
- I prefer the poses where the eyes are at about the same level. The dad is so much taller that getting him to sit was a good decision.
- I like the second set better. The couple looks more comfortable. The guy either has small eyes or is squinting because of the light. Anything you can do to get the eyes open would help. If that is as wide as they get, you might try getting in for a tighter shot so that you can see his eyes. They look like they are a nice blue if he had them open.
- The SB600 does a nice job with balanced fill, but I have had to be careful not to allow it to wash all shadow and flatten the light too much. I now try to back it off a stop or two so that it provides some pop in the eyes but does not overpower the available light. I am also looking for a reflector to enlarge the size of the catch lights it makes. When you use it straight on, it doesn't provide much sparkle in the eyes, just a sharp dot.
- Finally, I agree with the other comments on color balance. I picked up a fairly inexpensive device to calibrate my monitor and it helped a bunch. Now what I post and print looks like what I see on my screen.

Hope this helps. Keep posting.
David

Hi David - thank you for your input, all helpful hints. The biggest being I can't believe I didn't bring them forward form the tree more.. doh!
Using the 50 @ 2.8 or flat 2 get's great DOF/bokeh but it also pulls in way more light, this was my first real 'attempt' at indoor, full manual, off camera light shooting... and i'd say i have lot's to learn. I think starting with reading the manual on the flash. I had it set to auto-zoom in slave mode, and didn't adjust the power level down. I am going to have another go at this with the wife and kids tonight.

In addition, I am having trouble as our ceilings are about 22' ft high with huge white walls surrounding the room. I have a disfuser on the 600 but no matter where i bounce it.. it's to bright. I've turned the -ev down to compensate, but then the images are not as 'crisp'. anyone have any suggestions on how to set this up?

again, thanks for you input

00SS

Photometric wrote:

I agree with David completely, if you let the sb600 run on it's own you will get blown out detail, either control it through the exposure dial for the flash, or the camera's exposure manager, or both. If that doesn't work, then switch to camera manual and work around with the aperture or shutter speed to control it's effect. Unless you have a light meter, then take your reading, adjust the flash in manual and snap away.

duely noted, thanks for your suggestions, I was shooting some of those in apeture mode, I will do some more experimenting tonight.

00SS

divamum wrote:

I actually use an ordinary Huey (not the pro version) recommended by Jeffreaux2, and purchased from another helpful dgrinner who'd switched to mac and changed systems.

While I still need to watch contrast/lightness when I'm preparing prints (both of my screens are a little brighter than prints, even when I use service/printer profiles andsoft proof), colour has been dead on, confirmed by responses from folks using other computers. Definitely a worthwhile investment.

As for backdrops - if you're serious about wanting one, I have to say that I'm really liking my black/white reversible popup background http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/303035-REG/Botero_C03757__037_Collapsible_Reversible_Background.html

From what I've read in comments some of the more expensive ones fight wrinkles a little better, but this one has worked out just fine for me - I steam out the worst, and even if I don't steam it as long as I light it right and pull the subject forward enough that it's not crisply in focus the wrinkles don't show at all, or are minimal enough to be easily removed in photoshop. For under $100 for incredibly portable white/black/grey backgrounds (it's easy to get grey from either side depending how you light it), it was definitely worth the investment.

hi divamum - many thanks for that link, going to forward it to the wife so santa can bring me one . I think I have more issues with my shots than the background will fix, but it can't hurt either.. as those blinds were really buggin me. oh, and I love those shots you posted.. great lighting, something I hope to get much better at very soon. Thanks for commenting.

Caspian

Devin,
Are these self-portraits? That makes it harder to check the review button after each shot. I have found that the balanced fill function of the flash combined with matrix metering will force the shutter to slow when you have a dark background, resulting in brightening the overall scene regardless of what you do. Try turning off the balanced fill function, use center weighted metering (not spot or matrix) and back the flash off a stop or two. If that doesn't work, meter one of the faces, go to manual exposure and back the flash off a stop or two if necessary. The speedlight is a great tool, but the new ones want to do too much of the thinking for you.

David

adbsgicom

00SS wrote:

In addition, I am having trouble as our ceilings are about 22' ft high with huge white walls surrounding the room. I have a disfuser on the 600 but no matter where i bounce it.. it's to bright. I've turned the -ev down to compensate, but then the images are not as 'crisp'. anyone have any suggestions on how to set this up?

again, thanks for you input

You aren't using the diffuser and bouncing, are you? That would doubly diffuse things (or be spilling light forward and not really bouncing it depending on what sort of diffuser you have -- such as an stoffen cap). How are you metering. I'd suggest metering manual and getting your light about where you want (a little dark) and then bouncing a bit to the side to get some direction to the reflected light, but using the CSL mode to get what you want. Generally you end up having the EV compensation at +1 or so. Not sure if this helps or not....

00SS

Caspian wrote:

Devin,
Are these self-portraits? That makes it harder to check the review button after each shot. I have found that the balanced fill function of the flash combined with matrix metering will force the shutter to slow when you have a dark background, resulting in brightening the overall scene regardless of what you do. Try turning off the balanced fill function, use center weighted metering (not spot or matrix) and back the flash off a stop or two. If that doesn't work, meter one of the faces, go to manual exposure and back the flash off a stop or two if necessary. The speedlight is a great tool, but the new ones want to do too much of the thinking for you.

David

no, these were some friends of ours.. i'm going to setup another try
in front of the tree with my wife and 4 daughters tonight. Many thanks for the suggestions.. i'll give them a go.

Caspian

Let us know how it goes. We feel invested in your success!

00SS

adbsgicom wrote:

You aren't using the diffuser and bouncing, are you? That would doubly diffuse things (or be spilling light forward and not really bouncing it depending on what sort of diffuser you have -- such as an stoffen cap). How are you metering. I'd suggest metering manual and getting your light about where you want (a little dark) and then bouncing a bit to the side to get some direction to the reflected light, but using the CSL mode to get what you want. Generally you end up having the EV compensation at +1 or so. Not sure if this helps or not....

no - i had the diffuser on when pointing at them.. and took it off for bouncing off the ceiling (i was trying a lot of diff ways). I think tonights shots with the family will be very challenging as it's difficult to get all 6 of us (and two dogs and a cat) in frame in focus and well lit. I will def manually meter tonight and give it another try. Thanks for the input Andrew.

Photometric

00SS wrote:

no - i had the diffuser on when pointing at them.. and took it off for bouncing off the ceiling (i was trying a lot of diff ways). I think tonights shots with the family will be very challenging as it's difficult to get all 6 of us (and two dogs and a cat) in frame in focus and well lit. I will def manually meter tonight and give it another try. Thanks for the input Andrew.

I think the best thing you can do is go to a home depot or a craft store and get yourself a peice of black foam and attach it to the speedlight with part of the form hanging off of the front. This will prevent the direct light from hitting the subject and allow the light to fill more evenly
Forgive the primitive drawing, but I mean the following.

...| |
...| |
...| | foam
...| |
--- |
| || speedlight
| ||
| |
______
..........) camera ............................Subject
______)



This setup will force the light to fill in all around the room before hitting the subject and give you a better dispersion of light even if you angle the speed light slightly toward the subject at 60 degree angle

........../ /
........./ /
......../ / foam
......./ /
...---/
../ // speedlight
./ //
| |
______
.........) camera ............................Subject
______)

Again, forgive the cheesy drawing...the periods should be ignored as space.

adbsgicom

20091218-101-2.jpg

Note a couple of things on the foam. It is not rigid so I can bend it back more if I want to get some spill forward. It is held on with a hairband so I can move it around depending on which way I point the strobe.

divamum

Caspian, rather than hijack this thread, here's the link to the thread with my high key shots, setup discussed there

Back to the thread... :

As far as bouncing, you won't find better examples and explanations than www.planetneil.com. Once Swartzy had given me the "recipe" for ambient+bounce that made sense to me (thread here) I FINALLY understood how Neil van N. gets the results he does, and started playing around with it. It's a lot of fun trying to "second-guess" where the light will bounce. I'm personally becoming a huge fan of behind one of my shoulders at a slight angle - gives gorgeous light off a neutral-colored wall (flag, building, framed picture - the glass acts as neutral bounce - etc etc). I haven't quite managed to reliably control the Black Foamie Thing, but that's my next project - I have one with me at all times and play around with it to see what it does! Experimenting is the key to all of this,I think, because at some point you get a shot where you remember EXACTLY what you did (and why) and suddenly... it all makes sense! :ivar

Caspian

divamum wrote:

Caspian, rather than hijack this thread, here's the link to the thread with my high key shots, setup discussed there

Thanks for the link.