Indecisive decision on next glass purchase

PVNPhotographyPVNPhotography Registered Users Posts: 25 Big grins
edited December 25, 2009 in Cameras
Hello everybody! I had just bought my Canon XSi during the beginning of last week and I have been out shooting a lot of pictures and well, I plan on making a purchase for a glass under $500 around February/March. I have been doing a lot of research on a great review site www.the-Digital-picture.com because they have reviewed almost all the glass that Canon carries.

Throughout my shooting experience from last week, I found that I kind of need a telephoto, so I can zoom up close on things but again, I want something that's wide. I know that the 50mm will be one of the glass that has to be in my bag and so, that may/may not be my first priority glass to buy. However it's the cheapest I can get which may alter my decision by buying that one first.

The glasses I've been having my eyes on are the:
28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM // ~$400
17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM // ~$450

I've heard that the barrel distortion on the 28-135 is really really noticeable in pictures. I haven't seen it for myself, but I really do want to see how the IQ is for the 28-135. Though, in my opinion, the 17-85 seems like a cheaper version of the 24-70 (but doesn't have great IQ, sharp focus as the 24-70 does).

What do you guys think I should do?
Canon Rebel XSi/450D

Comments

  • craig_dcraig_d Registered Users Posts: 911 Major grins
    edited December 21, 2009
    Getting decent zoom lenses for under $500 is a bit of a challenge. The 28-135mm is said to be pretty decent for the money, but bear in mind that on an APS-C format camera like the XSi, 28mm will not be very wide. Rather than acting like a wide-to-near-telephoto lens, as it would on a full-frame camera, it will be more like standard-to-medium-telephoto (equivalent to 44-216mm on full-frame). If you just want it for telephoto, I suppose it's not bad, and it has IS, which will be useful. Still, you might want to look into Tamron's 70-200mm f/2.8 lens, which costs less than Canon's 70-200mm f/2.8 and is said to be good. I haven't used it myself, though.

    If you have the 18-55mm kit lens that is typically purchased with the Rebel XSi, I'm not sure what you'd want the 17-85mm for. It's just a little bit wider (1mm), and a bit longer (by 30mm), but not really much better. In your position, with limited funds available, I'd stick with the 18-55mm lens for a standard-range zoom and buy something completely different.

    If you want an inexpensive, good-quality wide-angle zoom, I suggest the Canon-mount version of the Tokina 12-24mm f/4 (model AT-X 124 AF PRO DX II). This is a good lens, and it works very well on the Rebels. Last I heard, it was selling new for about $400.

    I'm not sure why you assume that you want a 50mm prime in your bag. On APS-C, it's more of a short-range portrait lens than the standard field of view that it is on full-frame cameras. Of course, the Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II is incredibly inexpensive, so it's hard to argue against it, but for a prime that is roughtly equivalent to standard view, you might prefer Canon's EF 35mm f/2, which sells new for about $300.
    http://craigd.smugmug.com

    Got bored with digital and went back to film.
  • Brett1000Brett1000 Registered Users Posts: 819 Major grins
    edited December 22, 2009

    The glasses I've been having my eyes on are the:
    28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM // ~$400
    17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM // ~$450


    What do you guys think I should do?

    I think you should get the Canon 55-250IS. The 55-250 is a different, longer focal range but it's sharper and has better image resolution according to
    www.photozone.de

    and

    http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=456&Camera=474&Sample=0&FLIComp=2&APIComp=0&LensComp=116&CameraComp=474&SampleComp=0&FLI=0&API=1


    best of all - it's less than $200 ! (refurbished - www.Adorama.com)
  • gecko0gecko0 Registered Users Posts: 383 Major grins
    edited December 22, 2009
    the 55-250mm is the perfect compliment to the kit lens for the XSi. 18-55mm, 55-250mm, and 50mm 1.8 make up the "budget trinity" of canon lenses. :D i used all of them on my XSi and they were a great value with good IQ...just not the fastest lenses, of course.
    Canon 7D and some stuff that sticks on the end of it.
  • PVNPhotographyPVNPhotography Registered Users Posts: 25 Big grins
    edited December 22, 2009
    Craig, you nailed the question I was asking. Thanks for giving me such great advice! I would have never thought about it that way when I first started reading on these glass. I'll probably be looking at the 55-250mm like Brett1000 and gecko0 has recommended. I actually wanted a more walk-around glass such as the 24-70mm but that's way out of my league at the moment because I'm still an amateur. A friend also suggested the 17-40mm f/4L but, that's out of my budget.
    Canon Rebel XSi/450D
  • final_alarmfinal_alarm Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited December 22, 2009
    Hello everybody! I had just bought my Canon XSi during the beginning of last week and I have been out shooting a lot of pictures and well, I plan on making a purchase for a glass under $500 around February/March. I have been doing a lot of research on a great review site www.the-Digital-picture.com because they have reviewed almost all the glass that Canon carries.

    Throughout my shooting experience from last week, I found that I kind of need a telephoto, so I can zoom up close on things but again, I want something that's wide. I know that the 50mm will be one of the glass that has to be in my bag and so, that may/may not be my first priority glass to buy. However it's the cheapest I can get which may alter my decision by buying that one first.

    The glasses I've been having my eyes on are the:
    28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM // ~$400
    17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM // ~$450

    I've heard that the barrel distortion on the 28-135 is really really noticeable in pictures. I haven't seen it for myself, but I really do want to see how the IQ is for the 28-135. Though, in my opinion, the 17-85 seems like a cheaper version of the 24-70 (but doesn't have great IQ, sharp focus as the 24-70 does).

    What do you guys think I should do?

    Thats a good question, if it were me id lean twords the 17-85 unless you fell you need the longer telephoto sooner then id get the something bigger like the 50-200 mentioned above or 70-300.

    I own the 17-85mm you mentioned above and i really like the lens a lot. The only thing i wish was better was i wish it were a little faster for low light shots. Sometimes i find f4 a little slow. Otherwise its a fantastic lens and the image quality just blows the 18-55mm kit lens that came with my xsi away. I also have a 70-300 USM in my bag so i have a little overlap and i just picked up a 50mm 1.4 which im falling in love with.
  • pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,708 moderator
    edited December 22, 2009
    Craig, you nailed the question I was asking. Thanks for giving me such great advice! I would have never thought about it that way when I first started reading on these glass. I'll probably be looking at the 55-250mm like Brett1000 and gecko0 has recommended. I actually wanted a more walk-around glass such as the 24-70mm but that's way out of my league at the moment because I'm still an amateur. A friend also suggested the 17-40mm f/4L but, that's out of my budget.


    Tamron makes a very nice 28-75mm f2.8 Di that is very sharp and not that expensive. I still have mine after a decade and still find it useful. It is smaller and lighter than Canon's 24-70 also. Cheaper too!
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
  • Brett1000Brett1000 Registered Users Posts: 819 Major grins
    edited December 22, 2009
    Thats a good question, if it were me id lean twords the 17-85 unless you fell you need the longer telephoto sooner then id get the something bigger like the 50-200 mentioned above or 70-300.

    I own the 17-85mm you mentioned above and i really like the lens a lot. The only thing i wish was better was i wish it were a little faster for low light shots. Sometimes i find f4 a little slow. Otherwise its a fantastic lens and the image quality just blows the 18-55mm kit lens that came with my xsi away. I also have a 70-300 USM in my bag so i have a little overlap and i just picked up a 50mm 1.4 which im falling in love with.

    actually, if you look at lens review sites like www.photozone.de
    the 18-55IS kit lens "blows away" the 17-85 in image quality, resolution and sharpness!
  • holzphotoholzphoto Registered Users Posts: 385 Major grins
    edited December 22, 2009
    i'll look at the tamron 17-50 2.8 or the sigma 17-70 (i think they just released an OS version).

    or you could save up another $300-500 and get the canon 17-55 IS 2.8.
  • final_alarmfinal_alarm Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited December 22, 2009
    Brett1000 wrote:
    actually, if you look at lens review sites like www.photozone.de
    the 18-55IS kit lens "blows away" the 17-85 in image quality, resolution and sharpness!

    Well i read a mixed bag depending on where you go...

    "The Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM Lens is a significantly better lens than the significantly less expensive Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Lens, and better than the Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens" from the digital picture.com

    So you can read it both ways...... whatever

    I'm sorry to break it to you Brett, real world tells me a lot different then what your reading. I own and have shot both lenses. If the 18-55 is such a much better lens then how come everything i take with my 17-85 comes out a great deal sharper and with much better color depth then the ones that come off my 18-55?
  • Manfr3dManfr3d Registered Users Posts: 2,008 Major grins
    edited December 22, 2009
    holzphoto wrote:
    i'll look at the tamron 17-50 2.8 or the sigma 17-70 (i think they just released an OS version).

    or you could save up another $300-500 and get the canon 17-55 IS 2.8.

    Or a Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8. I found the range and performance teriffic on a 1.6x crop.
    “To consult the rules of composition before making a picture is a little like consulting the law of gravitation before going for a walk.”
    ― Edward Weston
  • Brett1000Brett1000 Registered Users Posts: 819 Major grins
    edited December 23, 2009
    Well i read a mixed bag depending on where you go...

    "The Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM Lens is a significantly better lens than the significantly less expensive Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Lens, and better than the Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens" from the digital picture.com
    So you can read it both ways...... whatever
    I'm sorry to break it to you Brett, real world tells me a lot different then what your reading. I own and have shot both lenses. If the 18-55 is such a much better lens then how come everything i take with my 17-85 comes out a great deal sharper and with much better color depth then the ones that come off my 18-55?


    you can see the difference yourself at www.slrgear.com, www.digital-picture.com, and independent lab tests like www.photozone.de show the actual image resolution data and MTF resolution numbers -
    conclusion quote: "the Canon 18-55IS quite a bit better than the EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 USM IS"
    - sorry to break it to you but independent lab tests seem to hold up better than personal backyard tests!
  • Brett1000Brett1000 Registered Users Posts: 819 Major grins
    edited December 23, 2009
    Manfr3d wrote:
    Or a Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8. I found the range and performance teriffic on a 1.6x crop.

    both the Tamron 28-75 2.8 and Tamron 17-50 2.8 show excellent results for that focal length range
    www.photozone.de
  • final_alarmfinal_alarm Registered Users Posts: 26 Big grins
    edited December 23, 2009
    Brett1000 wrote:
    you can see the difference yourself at www.slrgear.com, www.digital-picture.com, and independent lab tests like www.photozone.de show the actual image resolution data and MTF resolution numbers -
    conclusion quote: "the Canon 18-55IS quite a bit better than the EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 USM IS"
    - sorry to break it to you but independent lab tests seem to hold up better than personal backyard tests!

    Well you didnt answer my question, all you did was throw out another website reference out there. Again if is the 18-55MM IS is a better lens then the 17-85mm then why do i get sharper images and better color depth with the 17-85mm? Why is the 17-85 generally well reviewed by most(all but one that i could find) websites and user reviews? I have shot literally thousands of shots thru each lens on my XSI and my eyes are telling me the 17-85 is the better lens based on the results i have achieved with each one.
  • PVNPhotographyPVNPhotography Registered Users Posts: 25 Big grins
    edited December 23, 2009
    Well you didnt answer my question, all you did was throw out another website reference out there. Again if is the 18-55MM IS is a better lens then the 17-85mm then why do i get sharper images and better color depth with the 17-85mm? Why is the 17-85 generally well reviewed by most(all but one that i could find) websites and user reviews? I have shot literally thousands of shots thru each lens on my XSI and my eyes are telling me the 17-85 is the better lens based on the results i have achieved with each one.

    To me, I feel that any other lenses will be better then 18-55. But that's all I have for now so it's the only thing I can use. ne_nau.gif

    Any ways, I think these lenses are going to wait. I was at my sister's birthday party yesterday and while we were eating in a restaurant, I tried to capture some shots with a higher aperture and all the photos came out dark. Moved it down to 18mm where I can use the aperture of 3.5 and photos came out great. Now I'm deciding to first get the 50mm f/1.8 and a battery grip.
    Canon Rebel XSi/450D
  • RedSoxRedSox Registered Users Posts: 92 Big grins
    edited December 23, 2009
    To me, I feel that any other lenses will be better then 18-55. But that's all I have for now so it's the only thing I can use. ne_nau.gif

    Any ways, I think these lenses are going to wait. I was at my sister's birthday party yesterday and while we were eating in a restaurant, I tried to capture some shots with a higher aperture and all the photos came out dark. Moved it down to 18mm where I can use the aperture of 3.5 and photos came out great. Now I'm deciding to first get the 50mm f/1.8 and a battery grip.

    50/1.8 might be a bit too long for indoor, unless you have a big room. Try 28mm or 35mm as well, before you make the decision.

    Eric
  • PVNPhotographyPVNPhotography Registered Users Posts: 25 Big grins
    edited December 23, 2009
    RedSox wrote:
    50/1.8 might be a bit too long for indoor, unless you have a big room. Try 28mm or 35mm as well, before you make the decision.

    Eric

    I know that the 50mm will be at 80mm with the crop factor... but how close will it be?
    Canon Rebel XSi/450D
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,132 moderator
    edited December 24, 2009
    I know that the 50mm will be at 80mm with the crop factor... but how close will it be?

    I'm not understanding your question?

    The issue is that of "Field of View" (FOV). On a crop 1.6x camera a 50mm lens has a FOV similar to that of an 80mm lens on a full frame 35mm SLR. While it might be fine for a tight head shot indoors, or even head-and-shoulders in many cases, it's probably not too useful otherwise. It all depends upon how much room you have between you and the subject.

    Since you have an 18-55mm, use it to determine for yourself what focal length you should need. Are you saying that the 55mm setting is still too short?

    Another reason to use a somewhat wider lens indoors is that electronic flash is less effective at longer distances. (Although many modern flashes have a "zoom" feature that mitigates this somewhat.)
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • RedSoxRedSox Registered Users Posts: 92 Big grins
    edited December 24, 2009
    Ziggy is right. Assume that you have a zoom lens already. Try to zoom it to 50mm and take some pictures indoor. See if you can fit everything in without backing yourself to the wall. In most case, even back to the wall, you cannot fit, say, a group of people into the picture frame. 50mm is the widest prime I have now, I only use it to take head and shoulder portrait of my kids age 5 and 6. It is very hard to fit full bodies of both kids into the frame. I have a 24-70L and I use the zoom for this kind of the pictures. I found myself offen zoom to arround 35mm, hence the suggestion that you might want to consider wider prime lens between 28mm to 35mm, if you do not want to have a zoom.

    I personally tryied both EF 28/1.8 and 35/f2. I found both are good, but not perfect. The 28/1.8 has USM. It is fast and quite. It is very sharp in the center but the corner is no so good even for a crop body. This is not a big deal if your use it to take indoor low light portrait, since you will not put your object to the extreme corner as the middle portion of the frame is very good . But it will be bad if you use it to take landscape, architecture etc outdoors and eventhough I do not have a 5D/1D, I could imaging the corner sharpness would be worse on fullframe bodies. The biggest turn off for me is that even stop down to f4, on a crop body, the corners are still visibly unsharp. I tried 35mmf2 as well. The lens produce good IQ and the corner sharpness is much much better. But it has no USM, so it is kinda loud. Sounds like a electric drill. I also found the focus accuracy is a bit worse than the 28/1.8. Also it tends to overexpose 1/3 to 2/3 stop compare to other lens under the same lighting which is not too much a big deal. In the end I did not buy either lens, since I have a 24-70L. I think if the 35f2 is built like 28/1.8 with the same price, I will buy the 35f2. Otherwise I will just save money for a 35L. The 24-70L at f2.8 is perfectly usable. As a matter of fact it is very good. I will buy 35f2 if I do not have a fast zoom. It is cheaper and has good IQ. I like it's small size as well. I wish Canon can upgrade it to a USM version.

    Eric
  • PVNPhotographyPVNPhotography Registered Users Posts: 25 Big grins
    edited December 25, 2009
    ziggy53 wrote:
    I'm not understanding your question?

    The issue is that of "Field of View" (FOV). On a crop 1.6x camera a 50mm lens has a FOV similar to that of an 80mm lens on a full frame 35mm SLR. While it might be fine for a tight head shot indoors, or even head-and-shoulders in many cases, it's probably not too useful otherwise. It all depends upon how much room you have between you and the subject.

    Since you have an 18-55mm, use it to determine for yourself what focal length you should need. Are you saying that the 55mm setting is still too short?

    Another reason to use a somewhat wider lens indoors is that electronic flash is less effective at longer distances. (Although many modern flashes have a "zoom" feature that mitigates this somewhat.)

    Thanks for your advice ziggy. Well, I don't know how much room I'll be having when I shoot those pictures so it's hard to determine right now until I actually go scout that area first.

    After reading what you posted and then what RedSox posted, and looking at my camera and seeing what focal length I felt comfortable with, it seems like 35mm is where it's not too far and it's not too close from the subject.
    Canon Rebel XSi/450D
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