Canon 580 EXII Screw Questions...

stuntfoto

I am looking for a screw to fit into the side of a 580 EXII... Went to the hardware store and couldnt find a match, they said it could be metric...

Here's what i do know...

I tried a 1/4 - 20 machine screw and it seems to be too large and the wrong threading.
I also tried a 1/4 - 28 and it will fit about half a turn in and not go any further.
Ive researched the internet all night, and apparently the hole on the side of the flash is supposed to be used by a canon SB-E1 or SB-E2 bracket.
I found a bracket manual but still could not locate a screw or thread size.

If anyone here shoots canon and owns a 580 EX II (as im sure many of you do) can you please check the hole on the side next to the PC cord and tell me if you can find a compatible screw... especially if you live in Europe..

-Thanks
Roy Ruff

stuntfoto

Does nobody have an answer....? Ahhhhh!

kdog

Every hardware store in the US that I've seen in recent decades has metric screws. Have you tried simply bringing your flash into one and finding a screw to fit?

stuntfoto

Yes! I brought my flash to both OSH and home depot... the two largest hardware stores around me... Both of them dont have a fit, one of them mentioned a special screw at B&B hardware 30 mins away from me, but i want to make sure before i drive 40 min away for no reason... Im starting to believe canon developed a special type of screw hole just to piss me off...

kdog wrote:

Every hardware store in the US that I've seen in recent decades has metric screws. Have you tried simply bringing your flash into one and finding a screw to fit?

rainbow

Have you tried contacting Canon USA customer service? Or one of their service centers? I would think that if someone at a service center is in a good mood s/he might send you one for free... If not, they might lead you to a solution.

stuntfoto

Contacted Canon customer support, lady had no idea there was a mounting hole on the side of the flash... She transferred me to a customer service guy, He knew what I was talking about but didn't know the size... Transferred me to parts. He gave me a runaround, then "informed" me that the hole is made for canon brackets only and I shouldnt use it for any other application... Grrr!

RacinRandy

stuntfoto wrote:

Contacted Canon customer support, lady had no idea there was a mounting hole on the side of the flash... She transferred me to a customer service guy, He knew what I was talking about but didn't know the size... Transferred me to parts. He gave me a runaround, then "informed" me that the hole is made for canon brackets only and I shouldnt use it for any other application... Grrr!

Go to the Tool section of Home Depot and get them to open a tap and die set. Try different taps till you find the right one.

time2smile

Its got to be a metric size screw. I dont think Canon would go to the trouble of a custom size screw thread. I'm in the US and home depot has boxes of metric machine screws, I'm a dark side shooter (Nikon). I would definitely try an old fashion hardware store, they should be able to tell you by looking at the hole.

good luck....

time2smile

After looking here
http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/tech/report/200708/report.html

you may be screwed, it might be custom, there must be a white lens knight out here that knows this....give them time they will reply...

sorry

ziggy53

I haven't found anything definitive, but it looks like the thread might be an 8mm fine thread. A large machine shop might have those. (A 1/4" x 32 has also been suggested, 1/4" UNEF is the designation.)

Regardless, the hole is intended to be used in conjunction with the hot-shoe mount on the SB-E2 flash bracket. The flash is not intended to be suspended by the hole alone and may not be structural enough by itself. Proceed at you own risk.

PhotosbyKW

FWIW- I have not had to replace any of those screws so I really can't help you here, but in effort to better help explain a possibility-

Sometimes, it is not just a case of Standard versus Metric- Each set of threads has a spacing an pitch that is specific to it, and often, a parts supply house may not stock them.

One of the brands of hand held radios that we use at work has a belt clip that is held in place by two little screws that often work loose, even with locktite. So far, neither I, nor my counterparts throughout the state have been sucessful in locating a match- ANYWHERE- to date- except the factory, which charges a hefty charge for that part.

Intentional Scam? Probably.

May or may not be the issue you are running into, but worth keeping in mind.

Good luck.

KAW.

Art Scott

you may have to find a close tap and just re-tap the hole to a common metric thread that is say .3mm larger so the threads do not pull out............I have been lucky in finding most uncommon metric threads at an ACE hardware....like home depot or lowes...ACE has an aisle that the top of the counter is completely covered with little yellow boxes full of hard to find tiny screws in odd threads................other than that I would just save myself some headaches and RE-TAP to a more common size as I mentioned above............

stuntfoto

Still in the Red
I Understand that the hole is made for a canon bracket... I also understand that this hole may not be structurally stable to hold things off of... Still not a reason to use a custom threading...

Went by ace hardware today.. No luck in finding the screw size... One of the guys recommended I go to the internet and purchase a "Metric M-6 Pitch 1.25" screw... He seemed like he knew his screws... But id rather not purchase them online just to find out it doesn't work..

Also called canon parts today... They dont carry replament "knobs/screw" for there brackets... *cough* *rephrase* Their ridiculously priced brackets...

Makeroftoys

A machinist chips in

stuntfoto wrote:

I Understand that the hole is made for a canon bracket... I also understand that this hole may not be structurally stable to hold things off of... Still not a reason to use a custom threading...

Went by ace hardware today.. No luck in finding the screw size... One of the guys recommended I go to the internet and purchase a "Metric M-6 Pitch 1.25" screw... He seemed like he knew his screws... But id rather not purchase them online just to find out it doesn't work..

**snip**

So I dug out my 580exII and eyeballed the thread. Then I went down to the machine shop and attacked it with a caliper-- the minor diameter is about 0.220" or so.

That confirms that it's not something you are likely to find in an ordinary hardware store; this is Canon we're talking, so it's probably metric, and I'm thinking it's probably something like a 6mmx0.6 or 0.7; assuming a 6mm nominal diameter screw, the rule of thumb says 0.7 is about right. (note: with metric, smaller numbers for pitch means finer threads-- opposite of what the 'murican system does.)

There is a possibility that it's 1/4-32, 36 or 40, but being as it's Japanese. . .

I'll have to see if I have a set of thread gauges small enough to check it; once we know what it is, getting a mating part is pretty straightforward. . . . McMaster-Carr or Small Parts, inc may have something, or the local hobby machinst may be a good friend to cutivate. Gunsmiths might also be a place to look for help; almost everything on a firearm is an 'uncommon' thread.

That said, on to the speculation: one of the reasons to use a custom screw here has to do with the limited depth the screw has to engage for this application; screws don't usually make a secure joint until they have multiple threads in engagement; so for a very short screw, finer threads = more secure. in this case, 6x1.0 would have about 3 threads of total length; 1/4-20 would be about 2.5 threads. . . and the way the thing is made, half of _those_ threads would be wasted unside the boss.

It also prevents you and me from mounting the thing to a tripod in a place that probably isn't engineered to take the stresses of being smacked around by a photog in a hurry.

Photoskipper

ziggy53 wrote:

I haven't found anything definitive, but it looks like the thread might be an 8mm fine thread. A large machine shop might have those. (A 1/4" x 32 has also been suggested, 1/4" UNEF is the designation.)

Regardless, the hole is intended to be used in conjunction with the hot-shoe mount on the SB-E2 flash bracket. The flash is not intended to be suspended by the hole alone and may not be structural enough by itself. Proceed at you own risk.

Agree with Ziggy, the thread seems customized (very thin and close) and too shadow for weight bearing mount. It may just to secure to the bracket. Checked the manual and Canon site, could not find the function of the hole.

DeVerm

99% sure it's M6 fine thread. The missing 1% is because I couldn't find a screw that size quick enough to confirm.

reasoning: Canon = Japan so metric. M6 standard thread jams after one turn, has the exact diameter but visibly courser thread.

Many yanks are confused looking at metric threads.... remember this: metric standard thread is between US standard and fine threads so it looks finer than standard thread on US screw of comparable diameter.

If you use a digital caliper to measure, it really helps to switch it to metric ;-)

cheers,
Nick.

Makeroftoys

Solved!

DeVerm wrote:

**snip**

If you use a digital caliper to measure, it really helps to switch it to metric ;-)

cheers,
Nick.

. . . it helps even more if I remember _where_ I _put_ the digital caliper. Mine was in my truck, it was raining, I'm lazy, there was a steam-gauge caliper handy and I've gotten used to converting back and forth in my head. (To the point where I forget that most other people aren't) Anyway, 0.220" = about 5.6mm (to first approximation), in case anyone cares.

In any case, I had a good rummage through the odd-ball tap drawer today, and I found a 6mm x 0.75 bottom tap. It ran right into the mystery thread, no fuss.

So there it is, gang: the Canon bracket mount screw for the 580exII is a M6x0.75 fine thread.

Finding such a beast from the ordinary sort of retailer. . . now that's a trick, here in the States; the metric fine thread standard seems to start at M8x1.0. Taps and Dies for M6x0.75 are available from machine-tool wholesale houses, if you want to make your own parts.

If no luck, PM me and we'll work something out.

DeVerm

Indeed, I expected to find it on Google quickly but they all start at M8.

So, if I needed a couple, I would walk into a local machine shop and have them make a couple in 316 stainless steel.

ciao!
Nick.

stuntfoto

Thanks!
Big thanks to everyone that responded to this post! I went by a machine shop today (hard to find in LA). Nice guy said he'd check but wasnt sure if he would find one, and if all else failed he'd make me one. 5 minutes later he comes out with a very small box with about 25 of these guys! Mystery screw question solved! M6-Fine thread is the correct fit! Now i can use my brand new custom built bracket with added support from the screw! Ill post a pic up as soon as I get a chance... Its made of aluminum and rivals the canon bracket by 1000% (not that this says much)

-Roy Ruff

Makeroftoys wrote:

. . . it helps even more if I remember _where_ I _put_ the digital caliper. Mine was in my truck, it was raining, I'm lazy, there was a steam-gauge caliper handy and I've gotten used to converting back and forth in my head. (To the point where I forget that most other people aren't) Anyway, 0.220" = about 5.6mm (to first approximation), in case anyone cares.

In any case, I had a good rummage through the odd-ball tap drawer today, and I found a 6mm x 0.75 bottom tap. It ran right into the mystery thread, no fuss.

So there it is, gang: the Canon bracket mount screw for the 580exII is a M6x0.75 fine thread.

Finding such a beast from the ordinary sort of retailer. . . now that's a trick, here in the States; the metric fine thread standard seems to start at M8x1.0. Taps and Dies for M6x0.75 are available from machine-tool wholesale houses, if you want to make your own parts.

If no luck, PM me and we'll work something out.

ziggy53

stuntfoto wrote:

Big thanks to everyone that responded to this post! I went by a machine shop today (hard to find in LA). Nice guy said he'd check but wasnt sure if he would find one, and if all else failed he'd make me one. 5 minutes later he comes out with a very small box with about 25 of these guys! Mystery screw question solved! M6-Fine thread is the correct fit! Now i can use my brand new custom built bracket with added support from the screw! Ill post a pic up as soon as I get a chance... Its made of aluminum and rivals the canon bracket by 1000% (not that this says much)

-Roy Ruff

Fantastic!