I just wanted to share my sad story. I have the same problem but my business name is my actual name. The other me (?) is now running a photography business with the same name. I tried pointing out to her that this would cause confusion since my business had been established for more than 5 years but she insisted. At this point all my clients are confused and I am considering the heartache of changing my business name just to deal with this. Maybe I can go with something like "initialphoto"?
Joking aside what do you all think? Should I abandon my own identity? I don't think any trademark would save me here since it is also her legal name. Interested in your opinions.
My name was not available on the internet, but was available in my state, it was not available on smugmug, but in lots of other venues. I checked that the toes I stepped on weren't seriously concerned, with emails etc, or whether they were willing to give up there spots, and just made sure all concerned were ok. It seemed to work out. Now that I have taken my photography to a more personal level, I would not hinder a pro from using my name if it was a friendly email across my desk.
I have been in contact with the other business operating with the same trade name and they said that their name choice was not meant to cause any harm to us or our business, and that they would be more than willing to change their business name.
So for now, it looks like politely asking does still work in the world of business!
First, let me say that I'm really glad this worked out for you - it could have been a real hassle!
But I'm shocked that the person would change the name just because you asked! If I had been in their position I would have agreed to change for $1500-2000. First, there'd be reimbursement for the domain name (which I'd probably have locked up for several years) that I can no longer use, and the registration of a new name. Then there would be logo design, business cards, etc. Not to mention the time involved in making such a change and the potential for customer confusion as I switch. (Think about if I had an e-mail address associated with that domain name.) Then I've got to change bank account names, PO Box names, ick! What a hassle.
As I said, I'm glad this worked out for you but I thought I'd mention this in case others find themselves on the other end of this situation. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to ask for a lump sum of money if you're the one having to change everything.
Joking aside what do you all think? Should I abandon my own identity? I don't think any trademark would save me here since it is also her legal name. Interested in your opinions.
Seriously - a consult with a registered trademark attorney would be a wise thing to do. Even if you wind up changing your name you can gain valuable knowledge regarding state trademarks and federal service marks (which could be the route to take as you can, hopefully, show via affidavits that your mark has been used in commerce and thus lay claim to that mark for the appropriate service categories).
Before I contacted the other business, I spoke with an attorney for advise on how best to handle this (their suggestions, start with a polite letter). The attorney said that in the end I have owned the name longer so it is a fair request to ask them to change their name, beyond that it is a question of what costs I wish to go to to fight this. I think that the first thing to do whenever you get yourself involved in a potential "legal" situation is to ask the advise of an attorney (but it helps if that person is a friend).
But I'm shocked that the person would change the name just because you asked! If I had been in their position I would have agreed to change for $1500-2000. First, there'd be reimbursement for the domain name (which I'd probably have locked up for several years) that I can no longer use, and the registration of a new name. Then there would be logo design, business cards, etc. Not to mention the time involved in making such a change and the potential for customer confusion as I switch. (Think about if I had an e-mail address associated with that domain name.) Then I've got to change bank account names, PO Box names, ick! What a hassle.
I never asked the other person to change their domain name, just their business trade name which is definitely a hassle but not terribly expensive to do. I just want to lessen the chance of confusion by creditors or customers (mostly creditors). I'm not sure I agree that you should expect to pay off anyone who starts a business with the same name as you.
I could have bought up every variation of domain name to prevent her from choosing the same domain name, but in the end that isn't really what I care about, its the business trade name, and as I previously mentioned there is nothing in the state of Washington to prevent two businesses from operating with the same name if they are a sole proprietorship or partnership.
I also spoke with another person (not an attorney) who works for a law firm specializing in intellectual property. She discouraged me from pursuing a trademark based on potential cost and time involved. Maybe I need another consult on that?
This whole process has been an interesting eye opener into the potential perils of running a small business.
I never asked the other person to change their domain name, just their business trade name which is definitely a hassle but not terribly expensive to do. I just want to lessen the chance of confusion by creditors or customers (mostly creditors). I'm not sure I agree that you should expect to pay off anyone who starts a business with the same name as you.
Why would she want to change her business name but keep the domain name that no longer makes sense? If I'm Paul's Photography at paulsphotography.com and you come along and tell me that you're Paul's Photography and ask if I'm willing to be something else, fine, I can change to City Photography. But why would I keep using the paulsphotography.com domain? Wouldn't I get cityphotography.com? Wouldn't I change my business cards? It's too confusing to have two different business names.
I just wanted to share my sad story. I have the same problem but my business name is my actual name. The other me (?) is now running a photography business with the same name. I tried pointing out to her that this would cause confusion since my business had been established for more than 5 years but she insisted. At this point all my clients are confused and I am considering the heartache of changing my business name just to deal with this. Maybe I can go with something like "initialphoto"?
Joking aside what do you all think? Should I abandon my own identity? I don't think any trademark would save me here since it is also her legal name. Interested in your opinions.
If you're going to have to compete with them directly in the same genre with the same name, then it is obvious that this newcomer is trying to ride on your established coattails.
So if they want to play dirty, let's play. Tell your clients the truth to avoid confusion. Make an announcement to your clients how another photographer is using your name in an attempt to solicit business by confusing you, the client. List yourself with the Better Business Bureau, the local Chamber of Commerce and other credible associations. Show your clients how you are the real deal, and credible. It will be difficult for an upstart to match that and hopefully she will go out of business or change her name to avoid going out of business.
Why would she want to change her business name but keep the domain name that no longer makes sense? If I'm Paul's Photography at paulsphotography.com and you come along and tell me that you're Paul's Photography and ask if I'm willing to be something else, fine, I can change to City Photography. But why would I keep using the paulsphotography.com domain? Wouldn't I get cityphotography.com? Wouldn't I change my business cards? It's too confusing to have two different business names.
Their business name and domain name already don't match. We've got the domain name, they've got a similar domain name and so does at least one other person. What I am most concerned about is having one of their creditors or customer after me. Collection agencies never listen to the "same name, different company" line, they just kill your credit rating.
If you're going to have to compete with them directly in the same genre with the same name, then it is obvious that this newcomer is trying to ride on your established coattails.
So if they want to play dirty, let's play. Tell your clients the truth to avoid confusion. Make an announcement to your clients how another photographer is using your name in an attempt to solicit business by confusing you, the client. List yourself with the Better Business Bureau, the local Chamber of Commerce and other credible associations. Show your clients how you are the real deal, and credible. It will be difficult for an upstart to match that and hopefully she will go out of business or change her name to avoid going out of business.
Luckily it sounds like their more than willing to work with us. And since I'm not directly competing with them. They focus on wedding photography, but me, not so much. I think the danger of customer confusion is more of an issue for them than me, beyond that it just becomes a hassle with me saying, "oh no, you want the other initial photography"
Luckily it sounds like their more than willing to work with us. I think the danger of customer confusion is more of an issue for them than me, beyond that it just becomes a hassle with me saying, "oh no, you want the other initial photography"
That's good to hear. When things get messy, generally no one really wins.
I talked with a friend whose business went thought this: $5000+ for trademarking their name then I can't even begin to think how many variations there are on the domain name
The biggest concern for me isn't the similarity of the domain name, its the .
You can find services that will do all the trademark paperwork for you for 10% of the amount you quoted. If it;'s simple you can do it yourself. I did that. $650 was my cost.
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Joking aside what do you all think? Should I abandon my own identity? I don't think any trademark would save me here since it is also her legal name. Interested in your opinions.
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First, let me say that I'm really glad this worked out for you - it could have been a real hassle!
But I'm shocked that the person would change the name just because you asked! If I had been in their position I would have agreed to change for $1500-2000. First, there'd be reimbursement for the domain name (which I'd probably have locked up for several years) that I can no longer use, and the registration of a new name. Then there would be logo design, business cards, etc. Not to mention the time involved in making such a change and the potential for customer confusion as I switch. (Think about if I had an e-mail address associated with that domain name.) Then I've got to change bank account names, PO Box names, ick! What a hassle.
As I said, I'm glad this worked out for you but I thought I'd mention this in case others find themselves on the other end of this situation. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to ask for a lump sum of money if you're the one having to change everything.
GreyLeaf PhotoGraphy
I never asked the other person to change their domain name, just their business trade name which is definitely a hassle but not terribly expensive to do. I just want to lessen the chance of confusion by creditors or customers (mostly creditors). I'm not sure I agree that you should expect to pay off anyone who starts a business with the same name as you.
I could have bought up every variation of domain name to prevent her from choosing the same domain name, but in the end that isn't really what I care about, its the business trade name, and as I previously mentioned there is nothing in the state of Washington to prevent two businesses from operating with the same name if they are a sole proprietorship or partnership.
I also spoke with another person (not an attorney) who works for a law firm specializing in intellectual property. She discouraged me from pursuing a trademark based on potential cost and time involved. Maybe I need another consult on that?
This whole process has been an interesting eye opener into the potential perils of running a small business.
initialphotography.smugmug.com
"The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera" - Dorothea Lange
Why would she want to change her business name but keep the domain name that no longer makes sense? If I'm Paul's Photography at paulsphotography.com and you come along and tell me that you're Paul's Photography and ask if I'm willing to be something else, fine, I can change to City Photography. But why would I keep using the paulsphotography.com domain? Wouldn't I get cityphotography.com? Wouldn't I change my business cards? It's too confusing to have two different business names.
So if they want to play dirty, let's play. Tell your clients the truth to avoid confusion. Make an announcement to your clients how another photographer is using your name in an attempt to solicit business by confusing you, the client. List yourself with the Better Business Bureau, the local Chamber of Commerce and other credible associations. Show your clients how you are the real deal, and credible. It will be difficult for an upstart to match that and hopefully she will go out of business or change her name to avoid going out of business.
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Their business name and domain name already don't match. We've got the domain name, they've got a similar domain name and so does at least one other person. What I am most concerned about is having one of their creditors or customer after me. Collection agencies never listen to the "same name, different company" line, they just kill your credit rating.
Luckily it sounds like their more than willing to work with us. And since I'm not directly competing with them. They focus on wedding photography, but me, not so much. I think the danger of customer confusion is more of an issue for them than me, beyond that it just becomes a hassle with me saying, "oh no, you want the other initial photography"
initialphotography.smugmug.com
"The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera" - Dorothea Lange
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You can find services that will do all the trademark paperwork for you for 10% of the amount you quoted. If it;'s simple you can do it yourself. I did that. $650 was my cost.
Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
http://flashfrozenphotography.com