Dark skinned model: Skin prep Q.

D'Buggs

So I have my 1st booking for 2010 and it's a challenging, as I've never had this opportunity before - Here's my dilemma.

A young, black woman of 21 years, wants me to *re shoot* another photogs work (she doesn't like the "muted" and "flat" look of her complexion in these). Her skin is stunning and I agree with her that the pics fail this fact. IMO she needs to be oiled up some to create some highlights on her skin.... The question is; how much coverage would suffice? A little here and there or should I have her apply a light, even coat on all exposed skin???

Work will inc. head shots, 3/4 and full body (complete work-up). Various posing,,, leaning towards beauty type, studio shots.

Any other suggestions that'll compensate her negative experience, are appreciated!


Thanks.

It be nice goin in on some sort of solid foundation here....... :scratch

sweet caroline

What about a sheer lotion for arms and legs, and highlighter make-up for the face (applied to the brow line and cheekbones)? She may just need a combination of better lighting and more flattering make-up.

D'Buggs

sweet caroline wrote:

What about a sheer lotion for arms and legs, and highlighter make-up for the face (applied to the brow line and cheekbones)? She may just need a combination of better lighting and more flattering make-up.

Sweets, thanks for the feed-back!


I'm not a Make-Up kinda guy but I *think* we're both thinking the same.... My thoughts are the using of baby oil for creating these highlights. IYO would this not create the desired effect?

I agree, some of her shots could've been cured with a little sculpting (say a hotter, snooted light on her face) but would be extremely difficult when it came to the "more than head and shoulder shots" - Controlling the spill on her legs and body would be a complete nightmare; not to mention, VERY timely.

divamum

In my (albeit limited) experience, dark skin shows up shine a lot more, and you spend more time battling to get rid of it than adding it!

I agree that a more flattering and "dewy" - rather than 100% matte or actually oily - makeup job may suffice. Shine per se isn't really a goodness. Also, you might want to look up Scott Kelby's technique for what he calls "HOllywood highlights" - it brings up that kind of fashion-shoot glow that I think you may be looking for. I'm guessing you're thinking that almost metallic look that black skin gets when it's shot just right?

Clarify, and maybe we can come up with some more ideas

sweet caroline

I'm afraid with oil you would get a greasy look and maybe some blown highlights. Can you link to examples of the look you are hoping to achieve?

eL eSs Vee

Adding oil to the models' skin can give her good highlights, if applied properly. See Skin, by Lee Varis; pps 65-66. Baby oil works, because it's very light and soaks into her skin (and, as a side benefit, she leaves your studio with softer cheeks.)

But the answer is also in your lighting.

Without seeing the other photographer's work, I can only guess that he used a very flat lighting set-up. By that, I mean that he had at least two lights; one on either side of the camera, both set to give the exact same reading. He probably used large umbrellas or even soft boxes on the lights. This produces a photo with little to no shadow, thus very low contrast.

Here's what I'd suggest: Use two lights and a reflector. Place one light on one side (you decide which) and a reflector on the other. Set your exposure for the light. Now place the reflector to her other side, moving it closer or further away from her to adjust the amount of light reflected back. (You can also use either a silver or white reflector, moving them in the same manner.)

That is exactly how I lit this image of my friend, Jesse.

You're probably wondering where the second light that I'd mentioned went. Well, by turning it just right with an umbrella, it pulled double duty as a background and hair light.

This is only one possible set-up. Use your imagination, and good luck. The udea is to not use flat lighting.

D'Buggs

divamum wrote:

In my (albeit limited) experience, dark skin shows up shine a lot more, and you spend more time battling to get rid of it than adding it!

I agree that a more flattering and "dewy" - rather than 100% matte or actually oily - makeup job may suffice. Shine per se isn't really a goodness. Also, you might want to look up Scott Kelby's technique for what he calls "HOllywood highlights" - it brings up that kind of fashion-shoot glow that I think you may be looking for. I'm guessing you're thinking that almost metallic look that black skin gets when it's shot just right?

Clarify, and maybe we can come up with some more ideas

Thanks for you time/thoughts, Diva. What I'm striving for is to get some highlights that draw the eye (dark gets passed over, highlights attract...). Read on; another member touches on what inspired my thinking.

D'Buggs

sweet caroline wrote:

I'm afraid with oil you would get a greasy look and maybe some blown highlights. Can you link to examples of the look you are hoping to achieve?

Not my work to share so I have to say; no, I cant offer up images.

D'Buggs

eL eSs Vee wrote:

Adding oil to the models' skin can give her good highlights, if applied properly. See Skin, by Lee Varis; pps 65-66. Baby oil works, because it's very light and soaks into her skin (and, as a side benefit, she leaves your studio with softer cheeks.)

But the answer is also in your lighting.

I've had his book for a looooong time (excellent resource BTW) and it is what inspired my initial thoughts. I understand the lighting end of things (I think), a few test shots should get that nailed down fairly easy... The right modeling will def play an important role here.


Soooo, knowing that you and I are on the same page; how much coverage with the oil? Just here and there, or,,, every where??

Exactly, what is *proper*?????


Thanks.

sweet caroline

D'Buggs wrote:

Not my work to share so I have to say; no, I cant offer up images.

Um...okay. I've seen many photographers link to other sites that provide inspiration, with full acknowledgement that it isn't their own work. Not suggesting you embed a photo in your post that doesn't belong to you.

I don't shoot dark skin as often as fair skin, so my experience is limited. Here is a low key shot of a friend, but I'm not sure that's what you are looking for.

eL eSs Vee

D'Buggs wrote:

Soooo, knowing that you and I are on the same page; how much coverage with the oil? Just here and there, or,,, every where??

Exactly, what is *proper*?????


Thanks.

Pages 65 and 66, apparently.

The idea is to keep her skin as smooth as possible. Have her rub some oil between her palms and then rub it evenly over her entire face and any other apendage that'll be exposed.

D'Buggs

sweet caroline wrote:

Um...okay. I've seen many photographers link to other sites that provide inspiration, with full acknowledgement that it isn't their own work. Not suggesting you embed a photo in your post that doesn't belong to you.

Sweets;

I've got nothing in the ways of a link. This lady just brought in a disk of images... The tonal features of the skin, in your photo, are right in line w/ what I'm envisioning.

sweet caroline

D'Buggs wrote:

Sweets;

I've got nothing in the ways of a link. This lady just brought in a disk of images... The tonal features of the skin, in your photo, are right in line w/ what I'm envisioning.

For that shot, I used my Sb-800 in an umbrella with diffuser pretty close to her. I had a reflector on the other side. She didn't do anything special with make-up or moisturizer, she just kept it pretty natural. Thick make-up has produced flat looking skin in my past experience. I would rather fix minor skin flaws in post and have the natural beauty of the skin shine through than have to work with too much make-up. However, if you get a make-up artist on board they can do wonders. I've heard from other photographers that they strongly recommend this to clients.

Caroline

D'Buggs

eL eSs Vee wrote:

Pages 65 and 66, apparently.

Well apparently I need too go back and read this then as I TOTALLY missed the applications portion. My bad - "Skin" is at the studio and I've been home since I started this thread... I wasn't planning on goin' in today but this just might warrant a special trip .

The idea is to keep her skin as smooth as possible. Have her rub some oil between her palms and then rub it evenly over her entire face and any other apendage that'll be exposed.

Thanks for this. FWIW its where I *thought* I should be directing my attentions

---

> Even and complete coverage, letting the lights find the highlights. But best to know before going in, rather than asking the sitter to shower off because I monkeyed a theory.

ALSO!!!! I swear that I've seen your friend "Jesse", before. Just can't put my finger on it right now......

D'Buggs

sweet caroline wrote:

For that shot, I used my Sb-800 in an umbrella with diffuser pretty close to her. I had a reflector on the other side. She didn't do anything special with make-up or moisturizer, she just kept it pretty natural. Thick make-up has produced flat looking skin in my past experience. I would rather fix minor skin flaws in post and have the natural beauty of the skin shine through than have to work with too much make-up. However, if you get a make-up artist on board they can do wonders. I've heard from other photographers that they strongly recommend this to clients.

Caroline

If I read this right, you got the effect with the "hot" portion of the light... This gets tough, though, as you move them further away for the bigger shots.

MUA isn't in the budget for this gal - I tried.

divamum

Thought re MUA: there are quite a few cosmetics stores which will actually do a "free" makeover if you buy a product or two (sometimes even just CONSIDER a product). MAC is the one that springs to mind, but there are others. Might you punt this to her and see what she thinks?

I'm so glad Caroline posted that shot - I love it, and it was exactly what I was thinking of when you first posted. Gleamy rather than shiny.

Jane B.

divamum wrote:

Thought re MUA: there are quite a few cosmetics stores which will actually do a "free" makeover if you buy a product or two (sometimes even just CONSIDER a product). MAC is the one that springs to mind, but there are others. Might you punt this to her and see what she thinks?

I'm so glad Caroline posted that shot - I love it, and it was exactly what I was thinking of when you first posted. Gleamy rather than shiny.

Not everyone is on the same page re acronums/abreviations (and I know is misspelled those). I think you mean "make up artist" by MUA; but what is MAC??? Is it something specific to your area or field of interest as I know you sing as well as shoot.

Jane B.

sweet caroline

Full body. Same one light set-up in an umbrella with diffuser and a reflector (shot a year ago before I had 2 flashes).

1.

2.

3.

Here's the UNEDITED shot of the one I posted previously, so you can get a better idea of how the light looked. You can see I also had to do quite a bit of blemish removal.



For comparison:



I really believe having the large umbrella with diffuser (Phototek 60 in. softliter) was a huge help.

Caroline

D'Buggs

Sweets, thanks for your contrib's!

FWIW and after having another consult with her, she's willing to "play"... We're going to do this over 2 shoots - One where she's greased, and one where she's not. It'll be nice to compare the results using the same model.

I *should* get this job done over the next couple weeks (hopefully sooner) as I'm awaiting for new draperies to be completed.

D'Buggs

Jane B. wrote:

Not everyone is on the same page re acronums/abreviations (and I know is misspelled those). I think you mean "make up artist" by MUA; but what is MAC??? Is it something specific to your area or field of interest as I know you sing as well as shoot.

Jane B.

I think diva is referring to a make-up manufacturer (MAC)....
Your thoughts are correct for MUA.

divamum

D'Buggs wrote:

I think diva is referring to a make-up manufacturer (MAC)....
Your thoughts are correct for MUA.

http://www.maccosmetics.com/

bmoreshooter

Here is a simple solution you might give a try, especially if your doing large areas of exposed skin. When I learned to apply costume make up I was trying to find a way to remove the dull appearance of the make up. Oil created too much sheen, but someone recommended applying a very thin coat of K-Y gel. It worked great. It restored just the right amount of sheen without the oily look and feel. Applies very evenly for large areas.

D'Buggs

bmoreshooter wrote:

Here is a simple solution you might give a try, especially if your doing large areas of exposed skin. When I learned to apply costume make up I was trying to find a way to remove the dull appearance of the make up. Oil created too much sheen, but someone recommended applying a very thin coat of K-Y gel. It worked great. It restored just the right amount of sheen without the oily look and feel. Applies very evenly for large areas.

OH GAWED... I thought selling her on baby oil would raise the "Weird Factor", up to a level of 10.

bmoreshooter

Get your mind out of the gutter and onto the background paper.

D'Buggs

bmoreshooter wrote:

Get your mind out of the gutter and onto the background paper.

Trust me, it's where it should be.... I'll just halfta to figure out a way in pitching this idea, tactfully.
I don't know this woman - She occasionally serves me a drink and dinner, @ a pub down the road.

Perhaps one shoot could be Guinea Pig Day, and the other dialed in on what we see as the better result

---

> I'll "pitch" it, but I sure hope your thoughts aren't just BS (sincerely stated....).

sweet caroline

I look forward to seeing the results. I have a shoot with my friend again tomorrow, but for newborn baby pictures:)

Caroline

D'Buggs

sweet caroline wrote:

I look forward to seeing the results. I have a shoot with my friend again tomorrow, but for newborn baby pictures:)

Caroline

Go get 'em!

bmoreshooter

First, buy some and try it. Second, don't pitch it as K-Y. Put a little in a fancy jar and let her try some on her arm or leg. It's not about the product it's about the results. Never try anything that you have not tested, make sure it produces the result that your looking for. And make sure there are no allergic reactions. If you want more sheen try some clear glycerin (Usually available at any drug store). Both of these products are inert and should not present any problems. If your model feels self consious about applying anything in front of you have them do it alone in a bathroom or changing room.

D'Buggs

bmoreshooter wrote:

First, buy some and try it. Second, don't pitch it as K-Y. Put a little in a fancy jar and let her try some on her arm or leg. It's not about the product it's about the results. Never try anything that you have not tested, make sure it produces the result that your looking for. And make sure there are no allergic reactions. If you want more sheen try some clear glycerin (Usually available at any drug store). Both of these products are inert and should not present any problems. If your model feels self consious about applying anything in front of you have them do it alone in a bathroom or changing room.

- Garbley Goop story for "pitch-line". Check! (Hey, I can sell sand to a desert dweller ).
- Pretty lill' dish. Check!
- Private change rooms. Check!
- Lets not forget a shower (she'll need one after this). Check, check!
- Test/try 1st. Ummmm, nope.

She's it! I have no one else available that shares her skin tone... And I'm actually re-thinking the buisness end of this deal.