Advise Needed

sepplett

Hello all....I am fairly new here and new to sports and action photography. I started taking pictures of my daughters dance competitions and performances for myself and found I loved it. This year I want to do better and am hoping some seasoned professionals could help me a little.

90% of what I shoot is no flash allowed. Dark settings with only the lights on the stage. What settings do you find work best for this type of situation? I generally shoot in burst mode throughout the competitions, but have a lot of blur in my pictures.

I am also looking to upgrade from the kit lenses. What would you recommend for this type of photographing.

I have also been photographing alot of the local school sports to get a little better with the action shots, but again, I have a lot room for improvement.

I really want to do more with this than just my daughters competitions.

My equipment is listed in my signature. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Stephanie

Mike J

sepplett wrote:

Hello all....I am fairly new here and new to sports and action photography. I started taking pictures of my daughters dance competitions and performances for myself and found I loved it. This year I want to do better and am hoping some seasoned professionals could help me a little.

90% of what I shoot is no flash allowed. Dark settings with only the lights on the stage. What settings do you find work best for this type of situation? I generally shoot in burst mode throughout the competitions, but have a lot of blur in my pictures.

I am also looking to upgrade from the kit lenses. What would you recommend for this type of photographing.

I have also been photographing alot of the local school sports to get a little better with the action shots, but again, I have a lot room for improvement.

I really want to do more with this than just my daughters competitions.

My equipment is listed in my signature. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Stephanie

Can you post some examples of the results that you have been getting? I also newer to sports shooting but most of what I have done has been outside (ski racing, softball, soccer) where things are little more forgiving.

What mode are you shooting in? Automatic, aperture-priority, or shutter-priority? If you are getting blurring pictures then your shutter speed isn't fast enough.

Wiren

Oly & Low Light

sepplett wrote:

Hello all....I am fairly new here and new to sports and action photography. I started taking pictures of my daughters dance competitions and performances for myself and found I loved it. This year I want to do better and am hoping some seasoned professionals could help me a little.

90% of what I shoot is no flash allowed. Dark settings with only the lights on the stage. What settings do you find work best for this type of situation? I generally shoot in burst mode throughout the competitions, but have a lot of blur in my pictures.

I am also looking to upgrade from the kit lenses. What would you recommend for this type of photographing.

I have also been photographing alot of the local school sports to get a little better with the action shots, but again, I have a lot room for improvement.

I really want to do more with this than just my daughters competitions.

My equipment is listed in my signature. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Stephanie

Stephanie, I also am an Oly user and would love to have a second set up only for low light - My Oly would still be used for most of my other photography needs as I love it so. That said, we in the Oly camp suffer in low light. The crop of the sensor has never allowed the nice clean images with high ISO that the CaNikon group can get. That said, I think you have some opportunity. The E-620 I beleive offers better ISO work in jpg images than my E-3, but I could be wrong.

Do you shoot in Aperture Priority? I use Aperture Priority, Continuous AF, Center Point Metering and push the ISO's to the hightest limit I can reach, on my E-3 depending on the other ambient lighting, that leaves me with 800-1250 max before the images get too grainy.

The lens you are using may have a lot to do with it also. Not sure of your distance to subject (the closer the better) I like to be as close as possible and on a side of the subject where there is the most direct ambient lighting on the face as possible, that way the camera can track the AF and stay locked. If you are using a lens with an F3.5-5.6 max Aperture, your shutter speed will be lower than using say the 50-200mm 2.8-3.5 (which is what I use) The wider aperture you can get will help you keep up enough SS so that you lose the motion blur.

Post some of those pics for us to look at, we all like to see and can maybe help further that way.

Good light to you.

Lee Wiren
Olympus E-3
50-200/2.8-3.5
50/2
25/2.8
14-45/3.5-5.6

sepplett

Wiren wrote:

Stephanie, I also am an Oly user and would love to have a second set up only for low light - My Oly would still be used for most of my other photography needs as I love it so. That said, we in the Oly camp suffer in low light. The crop of the sensor has never allowed the nice clean images with high ISO that the CaNikon group can get. That said, I think you have some opportunity. The E-620 I beleive offers better ISO work in jpg images than my E-3, but I could be wrong.

Do you shoot in Aperture Priority? I use Aperture Priority, Continuous AF, Center Point Metering and push the ISO's to the hightest limit I can reach, on my E-3 depending on the other ambient lighting, that leaves me with 800-1250 max before the images get too grainy.

The lens you are using may have a lot to do with it also. Not sure of your distance to subject (the closer the better) I like to be as close as possible and on a side of the subject where there is the most direct ambient lighting on the face as possible, that way the camera can track the AF and stay locked. If you are using a lens with an F3.5-5.6 max Aperture, your shutter speed will be lower than using say the 50-200mm 2.8-3.5 (which is what I use) The wider aperture you can get will help you keep up enough SS so that you lose the motion blur.

Post some of those pics for us to look at, we all like to see and can maybe help further that way.

Good light to you.

Lee Wiren
Olympus E-3
50-200/2.8-3.5
50/2
25/2.8
14-45/3.5-5.6

Mike and Lee,

Thank you so much for the response. I can definitely post some pics, let me go through them and get some of the bad and some that turned out somewhat. To be honest I am not sure what mode I was shooting in. When I took the pictures I am going to post, I had had the camera for a week. I didn't have a clue what I was doing or what I did. I generally shoot in burst mode as the dancing moves so incredibly fast. I did not know enough to mess with the settings at the time. I learned a little since then, but not enough as later pictures will show. I will compile the pictures and they will be posted as they came from the camera.

I can't wait for more feedback and advise.

Stephanie

Wiren

sepplett wrote:

Mike and Lee,

Thank you so much for the response. I can definitely post some pics, let me go through them and get some of the bad and some that turned out somewhat. To be honest I am not sure what mode I was shooting in. When I took the pictures I am going to post, I had had the camera for a week. I didn't have a clue what I was doing or what I did. I generally shoot in burst mode as the dancing moves so incredibly fast. I did not know enough to mess with the settings at the time. I learned a little since then, but not enough as later pictures will show. I will compile the pictures and they will be posted as they came from the camera.

I can't wait for more feedback and advise.

Stephanie

Stephanie, I look forward to seeing the photo's, you can PM me when you post them so I don't miss them somehow. I encourage you to sit on the couch with the manual and the camera for a week. See something you are not sure about? pick up the camera and try it. Keep that manual close until you have it fairly memorized. I don't do "auto" modes, they work in a pinch when you have no time to think, but by visiting boards like these, reading the manual and practice, you won't have to rely on the auto modes.

What do you have for lenses? Have you bought any others than the kit lens? A used 50-200mm can be found with patience on e-bay for $600-800 (mine is a refurb) and these are stunning lenses!

also, what do you use to process the photo's? The Olympus software works, but if you have Adobe anything, it will be a step up.

rainbow

I am a Canon shooter, so you will have to "translate" my experiences to apply to your Olympus system. But I hope it will be helpful, nonetheless. (BTW, I did not see your lenses listed in your signature).

I shoot basketball and volleyball (and now even archery) in poorly lit high and middle school gyms. My preferred ISO setting is 1600 as my 5D (full frame) gives relatively noise free shots and my 40D can give good results using noise reduction in post processing.

I use prime lenses, either a 135 f/2 or 85 f/1.8 (shot at 2.2 for sharpness) to try to achieve a shutter speed of 1/400 to 1/800 with the 1600 ISO. Slower results in more blur. I shoot in Av mode where I set the aperture to f/2 or f/2.2 and the camera will automatically set the shutter speed to the fastest under that lighting. (The primes give you the largest aperture to let in more light to allow for faster shutter speeds... They also limit you to a fixed focus length so you cannot zoom in and out.)

I suggest you look at your pics (good or not) and the exif data will tell you what focal lengths you prefer to shoot with. That may guide you for the lens purchase (eg -- Wiren has a 50 f/2; with the 2X crop factor, that becomes a 100 mm 'equivalent' lens on a 35 mm or on my 5D). Also make sure that the lens focusing system is good for sports (not too slow).

Canon bodies have focusing choices. My most used is to use only the center focus point and to shoot in selected spots (like under the basket) that I expect to render good poses. For example, this would work in dance if you know the routine and where your daughter is. Trying to move all over the court/stage is much tougher to get well-focused shots versus waiting for her to get to the spot that you are prepared for.

Good luck! Hope this helps some.

kini62

sepplett wrote:

Hello all....I am fairly new here and new to sports and action photography. I started taking pictures of my daughters dance competitions and performances for myself and found I loved it. This year I want to do better and am hoping some seasoned professionals could help me a little.

90% of what I shoot is no flash allowed. Dark settings with only the lights on the stage. What settings do you find work best for this type of situation? I generally shoot in burst mode throughout the competitions, but have a lot of blur in my pictures.

I am also looking to upgrade from the kit lenses. What would you recommend for this type of photographing.

I have also been photographing alot of the local school sports to get a little better with the action shots, but again, I have a lot room for improvement.

I really want to do more with this than just my daughters competitions.

My equipment is listed in my signature. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Stephanie

If you're happy with your Oly system so far you can stay with it and upgrade your lenses and maybe the body (E-3 or E30) for a little faster FPS and possibly AF.

The lens you really need for gymnastics with Oly is the 35-100 F2. It's about $2000 but this is THE lens for low light indoors with Oly.

If you don't have a lot invested you can think about switching to Nikon or Canon but neither will be cheap. Indoor sports/action usually requires fast (expensive) glass no matter which brand.

Gene

Wiren

kini62 wrote:

If you're happy with your Oly system so far you can stay with it and upgrade your lenses and maybe the body (E-3 or E30) for a little faster FPS and possibly AF.

The lens you really need for gymnastics with Oly is the 35-100 F2. It's about $2000 but this is THE lens for low light indoors with Oly.

If you don't have a lot invested you can think about switching to Nikon or Canon but neither will be cheap. Indoor sports/action usually requires fast (expensive) glass no matter which brand.

Gene

Gene, good advice. The 35-100/2 is a killer lens, so I have heard I myself would love to have this lens, but alas, when I look in my wallet....... . A lot of us can't afford to do that. Switching to a Canon/Nikon system would cost as much or more (more if you go for the good glass). That is why I relegate myself to the 50-200mm, good, but not as nice as the 35-100mm. That lens is a beast though, I have seen one at a camera shop and it is bigger than my 50-200mm I have lot's of dreams with my Oly system, but need to win the lotto to afford them, with my wishes for the Super High Grade primes and SHG zooms, I am looking at about $20K, guess I will have to start selling a few shots (er, hundred that is).

Until great glass is within the reach for those of us with shallow pockets, getting the skills to do the best with what we have is always good. Then when the good stuff comes our way, we will know how to properly wield that mighty beast and use it like it deserves to be used.

sepplett

Wiren wrote:

Gene, good advice. The 35-100/2 is a killer lens, so I have heard I myself would love to have this lens, but alas, when I look in my wallet....... . A lot of us can't afford to do that. Switching to a Canon/Nikon system would cost as much or more (more if you go for the good glass). That is why I relegate myself to the 50-200mm, good, but not as nice as the 35-100mm. That lens is a beast though, I have seen one at a camera shop and it is bigger than my 50-200mm I have lot's of dreams with my Oly system, but need to win the lotto to afford them, with my wishes for the Super High Grade primes and SHG zooms, I am looking at about $20K, guess I will have to start selling a few shots (er, hundred that is).

Until great glass is within the reach for those of us with shallow pockets, getting the skills to do the best with what we have is always good. Then when the good stuff comes our way, we will know how to properly wield that mighty beast and use it like it deserves to be used.

That's such great advise. My pockets are beyond shallow, they were stitched up a few years ago when I started having kids. Right now all I have is the kit lenses that came with the camera. Each year (sadly once a year) I can splurge and add to my system. Which lens then would be the ONE (less than 2000) to add to help me a little build up my skills.

I won't give up on this dream for lack of a large pocket book, but rather keep practicing with what I have. I have a competition tomorrow night, or rather my daughter does, so I will be able to take all this fresh advise and apply it and see what happens.

As for posting the pics, I am sorry I was so delayed, we had a little bug hit our family this past week and it kept me from the camera and the computer. I promise Sunday how to figure out the whole attachment and pm thing that was mentioned.

As for my post processing, at this time I don't have adobe. I use a few lesser, like picasa (since that class came free with my camera), though I must say, I am a huge fan of natural photography. I love the extras that people add and what not, but sometimes, I think the original beauty or subject gets lost. I just want to learn more about adjusting and noise reduction.

Anyway, Thank you all for your replies and advise. I will be back Sunday with some pics from last summer and tomorrow night. We shall see if I remembered anyone's advise.

SirGeorge

Fast glass...
Hi Stephanie,
Looking forward to seeing your work.

As a sports shooter, the bottom line is that we come up against the laws of physics, two weeks ago I shot a track and field meet which rendered my Canon EOS 40D bodies useless because ISO3200 would not produce a fast enough shutter speed for sport, thankfully I had just picked up a 7D which allowed me to shoot at ISO12,400 and even then the shutter speeds were marginal @ f/2.8 and f/2. So, even with expensive glass the laws of physics sometimes triumph

The bottom line is that without fast glass and the ability to operate at high ISO levels then your scope will be limited.

Why, when shooting Aperture Priority, with the lens wide-open at f/2.8 (or 2.0 or 1.8 etc) if your shutter speed is too slow the only way to increase your shutter speed is to increase your ISO level. That's it, it's that simple. In my experience, if you are shooting indoors, the only question will be what will the ISO level be, because you will pretty much always have your lens wide open.

Good luck...and have fun.

sepplett wrote:

Hello all....I am fairly new here and new to sports and action photography. I started taking pictures of my daughters dance competitions and performances for myself and found I loved it. This year I want to do better and am hoping some seasoned professionals could help me a little.

90% of what I shoot is no flash allowed. Dark settings with only the lights on the stage. What settings do you find work best for this type of situation? I generally shoot in burst mode throughout the competitions, but have a lot of blur in my pictures.

I am also looking to upgrade from the kit lenses. What would you recommend for this type of photographing.

I have also been photographing alot of the local school sports to get a little better with the action shots, but again, I have a lot room for improvement.

I really want to do more with this than just my daughters competitions.

My equipment is listed in my signature. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Stephanie

sepplett

Wiren wrote:

Stephanie, I also am an Oly user and would love to have a second set up only for low light - My Oly would still be used for most of my other photography needs as I love it so. That said, we in the Oly camp suffer in low light. The crop of the sensor has never allowed the nice clean images with high ISO that the CaNikon group can get. That said, I think you have some opportunity. The E-620 I beleive offers better ISO work in jpg images than my E-3, but I could be wrong.

Do you shoot in Aperture Priority? I use Aperture Priority, Continuous AF, Center Point Metering and push the ISO's to the hightest limit I can reach, on my E-3 depending on the other ambient lighting, that leaves me with 800-1250 max before the images get too grainy.

The lens you are using may have a lot to do with it also. Not sure of your distance to subject (the closer the better) I like to be as close as possible and on a side of the subject where there is the most direct ambient lighting on the face as possible, that way the camera can track the AF and stay locked. If you are using a lens with an F3.5-5.6 max Aperture, your shutter speed will be lower than using say the 50-200mm 2.8-3.5 (which is what I use) The wider aperture you can get will help you keep up enough SS so that you lose the motion blur.

Post some of those pics for us to look at, we all like to see and can maybe help further that way.

Good light to you.

Lee Wiren
Olympus E-3
50-200/2.8-3.5
50/2
25/2.8
14-45/3.5-5.6

Hey Lee,

You said you use the 50-200 2.8-3.5 for professional work? Are you completely satisfied with this lens? How well does it work in low light situations or for say basketball........is it good there?
I am leaning heavily towards this lens and want your honest feedback first.

Thanks,

Stephanie