Wrestling shots (attempt #1)

Wiren

Ok, a couple of you were looking for these......not sure they are worth looking at, like I said earlier, very tough sport to shoot. My hast are off to those of you who shoot this and do it well, I have seen some spectacular shots that I wish I could duplicate. Here is my first attempt, C&C is, as always, welcome. Sportshooter, here I come, :wink hee hee (just kidding, have been reading some other threads.......:rofl)

1. B/W seems appropriate for a lot of wrestling (imo), but I did very few as the family thinks the color is better :rolleyes

2. Hard to capture faces when they keep spinning around on you! :huh


3.

4. Another I thought B/W was justified, color didn't do much to add to the image imo.

5.

Please fire away, I could use the tips. Not sure when I will get to try wrestling again, but I will try to get to another match soon and would love to use your tips :bow

Thanks

Lee

cr8ingwaves

with the equipment you listed and your limited knowledge of the sport, I think you did a great job.
I understand your thoughts on the black and white conversion. Sometimes in wrestling shots the only way to tell the boys apart is the color of their singlet, headgear or shoes.

ian408

You did well for the first time out.

Wiren

ian408 wrote:

You did well for the first time out.

Thanks, I have done a lot of soccer over the last few years and have been making steady improvements, I would like to think some of the skill sets carry over. Timing is a lot in any sport, guess wrestling will take some watching and practice to know the moves and when a good one gets started to fire away at the perfect moment.

Any other tips for the next bout? I would like to pin a winner of a shot on my site if I can get one.

austinado16

I think those are excellent. AND..........no crotch or butt shots!!! Right on!

Wrestling is all about the arms, hands and faces, and you nailed it.

I'd say play round with burst mode, and see if "spray and pray" shooting doesn't get you some cool sequences, and/or, some cool captures that you otherwise would have missed just taking one shot at a time.

johng

austinado16 wrote:

I'd say play round with burst mode, and see if "spray and pray" shooting doesn't get you some cool sequences, and/or, some cool captures that you otherwise would have missed just taking one shot at a time.

Again, I will respectfully disagree. Spray and pray doesn't work so well for wrestling. You end up with hundreds of photos that essentially look the same. It certainly can be beneficial for takedowns. And I do recommend taking a couple shots at a time - especially if using continuous focus (AI SERVO) - that way you get a 2nd chance at good focus.

Also - using external flash - off camera (either wireless or on bracket) does wonders for wrestling shots. Really helps them pop. You can't spray-and-pray when using flash. First, if you continuously do that you'll burn out the flash. Second you've got to allow the flash to recharge.

Comparitively speaking, wrestling is slow. It's not like boxing or MMA where bursts can definitely help to get timing of a strike down (and where flash is not allowed). Wrestling is much more about being patient - keeping the wrestlers framed and waiting for a good expression, good execution of a move etc. It's one of the few sports where shooting bursts really isn't that beneficial.

austinado16

Note that I suggested "play around with burst mode." I wasn't suggesting that the trigger gets held down and a slide show created. Merely, when something exciting is happening, take a few in a row because you might wind up with a few really cool captures that you otherwise would have missed. For example, a nice take down from standing, an escape from the down position, or a throw. A sequence during this type of action may yield some really great shots.

I'm on the fence about using flash. Having wrestled, I'd say; don't use it because you're right there in their faces with a flash and they're trying to focus in split second timing about where they're going next, and what the opponent is doing. That being said, maybe it's a good idea to ask the athletes and/or the coaches what they think.

Gringriff

What about bouncing the flash off the ceiling? I know they wrestle in gyms built for basketball so the ceilings are quite high. But does bouncing off the ceiling give decent exposure? I would think it would not bother the guys like direct flash would.

Andy

Wiren

Glad to see such a debate being fostered about shooting style and flash in the use of wrestling

Personally, when I shoot sports, I don't ever "spray and pray", I believe in getting the timing down and looking for the good shots, keeping my subjects in frame to as large as I want the end shot to be (minimal cropping is always in my mind). Timing and looking the for expression or action that you want is what I find most important, that means knowing the sport to a degree to pre-conceive the shot since you are aware of what may be coming next due to a look, expression, or simple subtle movement by the players. When I see what I am looking for, I will usually snap 1-3 shots, unless it is a sequence that I know will pay off with a longer burst, like a breakaway with a ball, a tackle or what-not, then I may do a sequence burst of 8-12 shots.

This is not to say that my sequence burst is a "spray and pray". It is a practiced series of shots designed to capture the peak action, sometimes in the sequence, I will lift the trigger, recompose (if action is moving towards me - this way I can re-fit the framing with my zoom lens) then pick the action back up - all done with maybe 3-4 frames lost. See some of my soccer photo's on my page, some of the better action ones were done in this style.

Another thing I try to be concsious of is post processing. If I take 1000 shots, that equal a long night, but if I keep it to 200-ish, then it is better.

Flash? I would love to bracket and bounce as John suggests, but......I do not usually do indoor sports (I mostly shoot soccer), and for like this wrestling match, there was nothing to bounce the flash off of where light falloff from my small flash would not have been so good. If I start doing more indoor stuff, I may look into it, until then, I will use what I have and conserve my $$.

Thanks for the discussion guys, respectful disagreements are welcome, I am here to learn, as we all are.

austinado16

Wiren wrote:

... When I see what I am looking for, I will usually snap 1-3 shots, unless it is a sequence that I know will pay off with a longer burst, like a breakaway with a ball, a tackle or what-not, then I may do a sequence burst of 8-12 shots....

That's exactly what I'm talking about (and that's what I do)....I was attempting to be funny with the comment about "spray and pray" which is not a photography term, it's a military term for the use of a machine gun. Sorry if the humor didn't translate.

All that being said, I think your shots are excellent and they capture what IS wrestling .

johng

austinado16 wrote:

I was attempting to be funny with the comment about "spray and pray" which is not a photography term, it's a military term for the use of a machine gun. Sorry if the humor didn't translate.
.

Part of the problem may be that the term "spray and pray" is actually used in photography - as a derogatory term whereby the photographer holds down the shutter and rattles off frames like a machine gun and prays one of them turns out. So, there are photography related negative conotations to the term already.

austinado16

johng wrote:

Part of the problem may be that the term "spray and pray" is actually used in photography - as a derogatory term whereby the photographer holds down the shutter and rattles off frames like a machine gun and prays one of them turns out. So, there are photography related negative conotations to the term already.

Well, I've jokingly mentioned the term to some other photogs who hadn't heard it and thought it was funny.

Pardon my attempt at a little humor .

johng

I'm sorry you're taking this personally. I was merely trying to point out that there are quite a few sports photographers that use that term in a derogatory fashion. And that is why people might misinterpret your humor.

In the end you can choose to look at things like this in the "hmm.. I wasn't aware of that but I learned something new" or choose to think of it as confrontational. It certainly was not meant as confrontational. And, even if you choose to view it as such, hopefully others reading the thread can learn about the lingo and why it has a bad connotation.

austinado16

I'm not taking it personal at all.

I suggested trying some shots in burst mode, and have since been more specific about what I meant......and used the S&P term to add some humor. Just like in the comment about PP where I used the term "hammer to fit, paint to match. Just havin' a little fun man.

Wiren

austinado16 wrote:

That's exactly what I'm talking about (and that's what I do)....I was attempting to be funny with the comment about "spray and pray" which is not a photography term, it's a military term for the use of a machine gun. Sorry if the humor didn't translate.

All that being said, I think your shots are excellent and they capture what IS wrestling .

I myself saw some humor in the "spray & pray" comment, but wasn't sure it was intended that way. I see waaaaaay too many parents out there who have bought the latest XTi or Nikon equiv. with a kit zoom who put it on "Auto" mode and have never read the manual think that they will get better shots than I using the "spray and pray" method of shooting.

What I hate is those parents telling me, "I don't need your website, I can take great photo's too, see my camera? It's a DSLR and captures great pics!" Even though they are stading on the sidelines, shooting into the sun while standing up! "Why are you sitting behind the goal box or at the end of the sidelines? All the action is in the middle of the field" I was told that by a fellow with a nice Sony DSLR this summer. Or even the lady I saw at my son's ball game (where I am relegated to asst. coaching - no photo's :cry ) who was halfway up in the bleachers with her 18-55mm kit lens and using the on cam flash Those shots are gonna be winners for sure!

Even funnier to me is the Dad the other year who went and bought a 5D and a 70-200/2.8 who followed me around to my shooting spots on the pitch and sprayed a zillion shots per game. I tried to be polite about it as he told me he was getting some killer shots. I asked him 3 months later if I could see those killer shots.....he looked at the camera and said (I kid you not) "Well, I have not had time to download them yet, but I must have about 3000 shots on 2 cards to look at, I shoot on low resolution so I can fit more on each card" At the end of the season (another 3-4 months down the road) he still had not had time to download those shots - what a waste!

Anyway, that's how I see the humor in your statement, not something I would endorse, but what I see all too often .

austinado16

*gulp*........weeeeeeeeeeeelll, I'm just a dad w/ a camera as of April '09, so I don't jack. But I did try to learn alot this past gymnastics season in my thread about gymnastics shooting (now with 10,000 some views and 23+ pages).

Certainly don't consider myself any sort of "good," but I have seen the gammut of what you're talking about with the parents and their gear. Everything from running out and buying what they thought was an awesome camera and lens, only to find out that it's completely unsuited for the intended use, all the way to the family who shows up w/ $7,000 in camera and lenses, and eventhough I gave them hundreds of photos of their kid, I've yet to see one shot from their rig.

Wiren

austinado16 wrote:

*gulp*........weeeeeeeeeeeelll, I'm just a dad w/ a camera as of April '09, so I don't jack. But I did try to learn alot this past gymnastics season in my thread about gymnastics shooting (now with 10,000 some views and 23+ pages).

Certainly don't consider myself any sort of "good," but I have seen the gammut of what you're talking about with the parents and their gear. Everything from running out and buying what they thought was an awesome camera and lens, only to find out that it's completely unsuited for the intended use, all the way to the family who shows up w/ $7,000 in camera and lenses, and eventhough I gave them hundreds of photos of their kid, I've yet to see one shot from their rig.

Exactly the point Austin, you, unlike the others actually take the time to study, learn, try and fix so that you can improve and hone your skill. Like you, and many others, I bought up to a DSLR so I could get better pics of my kid than I was getting with a Point & Shoot. But I wanted to do better than sideline shooting, so I started studying forums, manuals, getting tips etc (in liue of attending a photography class which may be better). I have ventured into wildlife and landscape photography since then and while I am no Ansel, I am better than the occasional snap it and forget it photog. I will always be learning and improving and probably will never be considered an excellent _______(name your photog style)_____ photographer that will make their living off of their hobby, but if I am going to offer my prints for sale, I am going to make darn sure that they are worth looking at and that means admitting there is something for myself to learn and a skill set to keep honed with practice.

Anyway, don't want this thread to end on a sour note, I think we have all made our points and I wasn't trying to look down from on high, I have a lot of looking up to do myself.

All is good.

austinado16

I didn't take your comment as looking down upon parents w/ cameras. I just wanted to put it out there that I am one, and also that I'm about as noobe as it gets.

That being said, I'm also always willing to learn and I'll be the first to say, "Hey, I don't know what the I'm doing over here, what works for you guys?" From that point on I try to be a quick study, learn it like I own it, and then start improving on what I've "been told" and on what "I've discovered."

If someone says, for example, "Spray and Pray" isn't good photography, I'll go try it and find out, no only why, but in the process, I may find that for me, I like it, or I like a portion of it.....or whatever. In other words, I'm willing to color outside the lines in order to learn more.

I guess that's what I love about this DSLR world. There's a lot to wrap your brain around, and just when you think you're getting it, you discover there's a lot more. In fact, I'm kinda wishing a had a winter sport to shoot so that I could play with the camera some more. Guess I could take it skiing with us, but man, I really hate to drag a couple grand worth of gear up and down the mountain. Might be worth it though, and I do have a nice Micro Trekker 200. Mmmmm.......

Wiren

austinado16 wrote:

I didn't take your comment as looking down upon parents w/ cameras. I just wanted to put it out there that I am one, and also that I'm about as noobe as it gets.

That being said, I'm also always willing to learn and I'll be the first to say, "Hey, I don't know what the I'm doing over here, what works for you guys?" From that point on I try to be a quick study, learn it like I own it, and then start improving on what I've "been told" and on what "I've discovered."

If someone says, for example, "Spray and Pray" isn't good photography, I'll go try it and find out, no only why, but in the process, I may find that for me, I like it, or I like a portion of it.....or whatever. In other words, I'm willing to color outside the lines in order to learn more.

I guess that's what I love about this DSLR world. There's a lot to wrap your brain around, and just when you think you're getting it, you discover there's a lot more. In fact, I'm kinda wishing a had a winter sport to shoot so that I could play with the camera some more. Guess I could take it skiing with us, but man, I really hate to drag a couple grand worth of gear up and down the mountain. Might be worth it though, and I do have a nice Micro Trekker 200. Mmmmm.......

Yeah, season's can really change your photography habits. I have come to do a lot of hiking in spring/summer when there are no games of my kids to shoot. Fall/winter and whenever I find time, I tend to try out wildlife shooting. I don't do much for winter sports, but I always find ways to fill the time. Lots of avenues to go with though, just gotta find the right ones, I have actually been thinking of pulling out my macro lens with it's extension tube and doing some macro's with it, where'd that bug go......:D

Have a great weekend Austin.